[Soul_Glo]

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/grenfell If anyone wants to donate. There are many pages and here is one of them.

Not many things bother me but on my way home I received a call from my best friend who said she lived close by and that many livelihoods had been destroyed. I have a bed to go home to tonight I thought... I still have the tools my grandfather gave me that hold sentimental value... I survived a fire without injury when I was a kid... I was asleep and they couldn't get to me.

Here is the news if anyone hasn't read it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40272168

[dobbo99]

Tragic
Its like something you would read about in a third world country, not the city of London.

[MashinBenzin]

It is an absolute tragedy, horrendous what those people went through - both the casualties and the ones that just about made it out. I dread to think what the final toll will be.

Amazing bravery from the fire crews continuing to go into that building.

If it's proven that the cladding played a significant part in spreading the blaze (which looks very likely at this early stage), I imagine many blocks are going to need urgent further renovation.

[Sasquartch]

Ironically the refurbishment in 2016 was probably the downfall

The original 1974 structure with concrete outer panels and metal windows would not have burnt at all and any fire much more able to be contained, at least until everyone could get out of the building

Personally I found this genuinely shocking, far more so than terrorist attacks of late

[planemad]

I'm a company owner/builder by trade of large scale commercial buildings and know the lengths myself and my team of designers and architects have to go to for fire protection and ensuring the correct barriers and fire breaks are installed as well as selecting and using the suitable materials.

There is something critically wrong here on how fast the building took off and how the stairwells quickly filled with smoke and hindered safe egress.

I was very sad yesterday and my heart goes out to those who have been affected by this tragedy.
The government need to immediately send some financial resource to the affected council to deal with the issue of getting the people affected stable. I'm surprised the prime minister did not do that yesterday.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by dobbo99

Tragic
Its like something you would read about in a third world country, not the city of London.

Yes, truly awful and not what you'd expect to see in a major city like London.

I guess we need to wait for the facts to emerge but I don't think I'd be sitting very comfortably if I was a director of the property management company that ran that tower block. Sounds like residents had been voicing their disquiet for a little while about a number of safety related items and if it transpires the company had guilty knowledge of problems and did nothing to resolve them they could be in big trouble.

It also potentially calls into question some of our current building regulations; for example, if the new cladding contributed to the spread of the fire - and that was known to be a risk from experience in other countries - why is it still legal to use in the UK?

Once again our emergency services were left to pick-up the pieces and once again they responded by doing a fantastic job; they emerge with huge credit IMO.

[mikeoz]

Well at least the Kensington council CEO gets paid more than the PM.
And the management​ company gets a fortune on the back of people with a average income of 19k..
http://dailym.ai/2sobkvN
No doubt they will all get bonuses soon enough.

[simon.]

^^
Dailyfail though! The most wank newspaper full of shite & lies. Got to be true

[mikeoz]

It's been reported on other media including radio etc.

[Soul_Glo]

Originally Posted by Lobb

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36988316

Wouldn't be surprised Lobb

[Dr_O]

Originally Posted by Sasquartch

Personally I found this genuinely shocking, far more so than terrorist attacks of late

I felt the same way. For me it was the eye witness accounts of people seeing small children banging at the windows on the higher floors, and the woman who dropped her baby out of the 10th story window.

I can't even imagine what that must feel like, it's truly terrifying. It brings a tear to my eye just thinking about what they must have been going through.

Quite why it affects me more than the terrorist attacks I'm not sure... the victims are all innocent. Maybe it's that this sort of thing should have been preventable; and I guess it's the scale of the destruction and loss of life and the fear felt by families who knew what was coming and were completely powerless to do anything about it.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Dr_O

I felt the same way. For me it was the eye witness accounts of people seeing small children banging at the windows on the higher floors, and the woman who dropped her baby out of the 10th story window.

I can't even imagine what that must feel like, it's truly terrifying. It brings a tear to my eye just thinking about what they must have been going through.

Quite why it affects me more than the terrorist attacks I'm not sure... the victims are all innocent. Maybe it's that this sort of thing should have been preventable; and I guess it's the scale of the destruction and loss of life and the fear felt by families who knew what was coming and were completely powerless to do anything about it.

Same here, not to diminish the terrorist attacks at all, but this has affected me [even] more.

For me, I think it's three things:

1. Shock. Terrorist attacks really do not provoke shock any more - anger, outrage and a sense of disbelief that people would do it, yes, but shock, no. We've simply seen too many. We've never seen this happen to a tower block though.

2. Scale. This looks like dozens of deaths or more. Plus hundreds of lives that need rebuilding from scratch. Hours of torment for those that died and many that survived. Witnessing horror, losing family, friends and neighbours and then not having even the stability of a home and belongings to go back to.

3. That this is more in 'our' control. If we'd left fire safety certification in the hands of the experts (fire brigade), could this have been avoided. On top of that, the complaints and concerns that were brushed under the carpet.

I'm also genuinely concerned about the chances for this to happen again; that terrorists could seek to duplicate if the same flaws apply in other blocks. Bearing in mind that our home-grown lunatics often live in blocks

[MarkG_M5Comp]

The scale of this tragedy really hits you when you see he block in the flesh; I was here yesterday and the sight is truly terrible.

The immense support people are getting from the public is heartwarming even if the outlook for rehousing is bleak (this is the council that has zero available homes and is placing people way outside London). Perhaps we need compulsory purchase of all neighbouring properties which have be bought for redevelopment.

I'm also concern if this cladding is indeed a major contributor to the spread of fire; many councils are currently covering our schools in this stuff in order to give them a 'fresh look'!

[Sasquartch]

Yes it's worrying but schools are not nearly as vulnerable not least that they are rarely more than a few stories high and usually have fire alarms. Schools have well defined fire drills and are only occupied during the day

The problem with Grenfell Tower was many people were asleep and hence the fire was well underway before many residents realised there was a problem.

I'm waiting with interest to hear what the root cause of the fire was.

[Rukka]

A lot of very sobering reading on this website, and if true, will leave a lot of people in the management company feeling pretty uncomfortable at the moment.

Some of the reading beggars belief

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...ing-with-fire/


https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com


.

[MickyD'bo]

Originally Posted by Rukka

A lot of very sobering reading on this website, and if true, will leave a lot of people in the management company feeling pretty uncomfortable at the moment.

Some of the reading beggars belief

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...ing-with-fire/


https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com


.

OMG. This is shocking. Posted in November 2016!!. WTF? I can't believe this was such a clear and present danger. Total neglect and incompetence. Heads need to roll.

[Darth Helmut]

Protesters storm town hall

Hmm, could this be the start of something bigger? I don't believe most of those people are just local residents protesting about housing conditions. Appears to be quite a few 'professional protesters'. If I didn't know it was London, I would have said it was a protest in Damascus or Baghdad.

[JD6]

A little more detail is coming out and I think it will raise further questions. The fire started in the 4th floor kitchen of one resident. At 12:50 he knocked on the door of a neighbour to warn her, having already packed up some of his belongings which he had with him. At 12.54 they called 999. You have to wonder just how long before 12:50 the fire was spotted. Long enough to do some packing, and what a bizarre reaction to pack first. Why wait another 4 minutes even after alerting the neighbour?

Had they called 999 say a quarter of an hour earlier, the outcome might have been quite different.

The other shocking fact seems to be the £2 per square metre that was saved on the cladding material, but choosing one less fire resistant. That decision is going to come back and bite someone, and justifiably so. I would be livid if friends or family of mine had been caught up in this.