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      01-10-2014, 08:07 PM   #45
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You guys are wasting valuable real estate. We still have 10 pages to go. When are we going to get talking about lease VS buy?
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      01-10-2014, 08:12 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
You guys are wasting valuable real estate. We still have 10 pages to go. When are we going to get talking about lease VS buy?
I don't bother wasting money on premium fuel. It runs just fine with 7 Eleven 87 octane.
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      01-10-2014, 09:37 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Define how you are qualifying reliability.
Anyway you would like.

Regardless of source and methodology, BMW rates in the middle for need for repairs, need for dealer visits, quality control, etc. Some methods rely on self-reporting, others compile ASE records - there are many methods of aggregating the information.

It does not mean BMWs are bad cars, merely that the reputation for less than stellar reliability is accurate. We all know, for example, that Japanese cars as a group are more reliable. People here often comment "Reliable, but boring."

Amusingly, regardless of the brand and actual facts, every forum will claim its vehicle is the best and the reports are wrong.

And are personally affronted if anyone claims otherwise.
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      01-11-2014, 12:01 AM   #48
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Best resale car I ever owned was my WRX, but best car I ever owned was my F 30. If new cars were investment they would be listed on people's 401k.

I like to buy new via leases, don't like the car turn it it, get in a wreck with a salvage title, turn it in, but if you do like the car buy it at 55% of new when the lease is up.
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      01-11-2014, 12:57 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Why does this perspective continue to be perpetuated? BMW's, by and large, are not unreliable cars.

Because there is some truth to it. I take it you haven't owned a BMW over 100,000 miles before?
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      01-11-2014, 01:18 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspensilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Why does this perspective continue to be perpetuated? BMW's, by and large, are not unreliable cars.

Because there is some truth to it. I take it you haven't owned a BMW over 100,000 miles before?
Nope! Admittedly I haven't, but I've owned one up to nearly 60k and two up to 50k (...or a tad more) with nary a problem. I've also owned 10 BMW's, so I have perspective. To be fair, these surveys tend to be about new cars, not decade old BMW's with 100k+ miles, so I don't think your example is really relevant. I must ask though, is a car that makes it to 100k really an unreliable car? I know 100k isn't much these days, but my point still stands. I have many friends with E46's, for example, with 200k+ miles......and aside from general maintenance, they haven't had any issues. One had his transmission replaced at 180k.
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      01-11-2014, 06:16 AM   #51
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Someone on here said it before and I'll say it again. The only place our cars are cars aren't worth anything is on this site. People are always talking about how the resale is blah, blah, blah. I looked for a used E90/E92 CPO before I leased my car. They were asking between $35-40k for 2011's with 30k miles. Not one of them was as clean or well maintained as I keep my cars. I would rather get a brand new car for the same money as something used. (Payments lease new vs buy used were almost the same) Some people are willing to save some money by buying used I am way too anal to spend +30k for a car that is used and is not in the condition that I keep my cars.
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      01-11-2014, 06:34 AM   #52
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In Europe at least the market for used F30s does seem to have fallen through the floor, but I assume it's down to the used car market in general rather than the F30 itself.

I get a third off the list price of beemers and as long as I sell them after a year can break even when selling to dealers. I broke even on a Z4 in 2007 and an E92 in 2008. I managed to sell an E82 on the open market in 2012 and lost £2k but that's cause I kept it for two years.

My F30, though, has had no takers. The best offer I had from a dealer was €25k when the car was only a little over a year old, max 18 months - which is insane on a car worth €50k new!! The dealer said that it's just the market at the moment and that if I don't need to sell I shouldn't as I'm not likely to lose much more over the next couple,of years. So I might just keep it and run it into the ground, will see.
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      01-11-2014, 08:14 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
In Europe at least the market for used F30s does seem to have fallen through the floor, but I assume it's down to the used car market in general rather than the F30 itself.

I get a third off the list price of beemers and as long as I sell them after a year can break even when selling to dealers. I broke even on a Z4 in 2007 and an E92 in 2008. I managed to sell an E82 on the open market in 2012 and lost £2k but that's cause I kept it for two years.

My F30, though, has had no takers. The best offer I had from a dealer was €25k when the car was only a little over a year old, max 18 months - which is insane on a car worth €50k new!! The dealer said that it's just the market at the moment and that if I don't need to sell I shouldn't as I'm not likely to lose much more over the next couple,of years. So I might just keep it and run it into the ground, will see.
This post has too many anomolyies for me.

You talk about the whole European market while your details say you are a UK resident (which I accept is part of Europe…) You quote prices in euros, yet these are not used in the UK. You say you were offered 25k euros on your car but cannot remember how old it was when you got the trade-in value. Surely everyone knows how old their car is (not least in the first few months of ownership)! Also you quote the trade in value in euros but surely no UK dealer would offer to pay you euros and if you tried to sell it in the euro area, why would a European dealer want a car with righthand drive?

You say your car was worth 50k euros when new. This is £42k in GBP but your car is a manual two litre diesel F30. In Luxury trim this currently lists are £31k. You are therefore being offered 81% of the current value… Since you claim you buy your BMWs with a 33% discount, the 25k euro offer will leave you in profit.

Or do you have £11k of options?

Sorry to nitpick but I spent the last 20 years of my working life looking for dodgy numbers in company financial statements and investment proposals and fear I cannot break the habit of questioning numbers in retirement.
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      01-11-2014, 08:24 AM   #54
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IMO id never buy a new car- only lease, but I would buy a used car
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      01-11-2014, 08:54 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quakered View Post
This post has too many anomolyies for me.

You talk about the whole European market while your details say you are a UK resident (which I accept is part of Europe…) You quote prices in euros, yet these are not used in the UK. You say you were offered 25k euros on your car but cannot remember how old it was when you got the trade-in value. Surely everyone knows how old their car is (not least in the first few months of ownership)! Also you quote the trade in value in euros but surely no UK dealer would offer to pay you euros and if you tried to sell it in the euro area, why would a European dealer want a car with righthand drive?

You say your car was worth 50k euros when new. This is £42k in GBP but your car is a manual two litre diesel F30. In Luxury trim this currently lists are £31k. You are therefore being offered 81% of the current value… Since you claim you buy your BMWs with a 33% discount, the 25k euro offer will leave you in profit.

Or do you have £11k of options?

Sorry to nitpick but I spent the last 20 years of my working life looking for dodgy numbers in company financial statements and investment proposals and fear I cannot break the habit of questioning numbers in retirement.
Haha, I love how much thought you've put into this! You're spot on with your questions though.

To explain, the deal I get is one of the only situations where you can by a Left Hand Drive car in the UK and pay the Sterling price. Previously I've bought RHD cars and sold them back in the UK but this time I thought I might be able to benefit from weak Sterling by buying a LHD car and selling on Continental Europe which is where I'm living at the moment. Hence me mixing £ and € prices .

I can't remember what the list price is of the options I chose but going from your £31k figure it must've been about £9k as the list price for the car with options was about £40k. The €50k is a red herring, though, as that’s the approximate Euro list price of the car – not the € equivalent of the £ list price. Since the pound has dropped, and also thanks to some strange pricing differences in options between the UK and the Continent, the € list price of my car is a fair bit more than you might imagine just by converting the £ price into €s.

Now you've got me thinking about it, maybe the options were my mistake - most of my previous cars only had some basic options ticked - but I can't really be bothered to go over the figures again as what matters for me and my decision now whether to keep or sell the car is that the car is now worth quite a lot less in € than I paid in £s, when I had hoped to break even.

As for the timing of the quote - I do know exactly how old my car is! I just couldn't remember when I got the quote - whether it was when the car was 12 months old or, say, 15 months old.

Last edited by Feanor; 01-11-2014 at 09:22 AM..
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      01-11-2014, 01:23 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
I don't bother wasting money on premium fuel. It runs just fine with 7 Eleven 87 octane.
I "think" I read somewhere that ANY car sold in the U.S. MUST, by law, be able to run on 87 octane fuel.

Me, I'll continue to use premium unless it's an emergency out in the boondocks where the gas station ran out of premium.

Just an FYI from: http://www.economist.com/blogs/babba...octane-ratings

I know most of you guys already know this but for those that don't....

Quote:
On the face of it, then, a motorist would seem ill-advised to use regular petrol in a car with a high-compression engine. That was certainly the case in the past. But cars today have sensors that listen carefully for the knocking sound, and instantly retard the ignition system when they detect that detonation is about to happen.

The delay in delivering the retarded spark allows the piston to start moving downward on its expansion stroke before the ignition actually occurs. That provides additional room in the cylinder head for the gases to expand and thereby reduce their damaging peak pressure—and so burn in a more controlled manner.

To sum up, if the car’s handbook says that premium petrol is “recommended” (rather than insisting it is “required”), then the engine will automatically adjust itself to run smoothly on a lower octane fuel. Because of the retarded ignition, the engine will, of course, produce less power, and have slightly higher fuel consumption. But the poorer fuel economy is likely to be outweighed by the savings at the pump.
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      01-11-2014, 01:33 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
You guys are wasting valuable real estate. We still have 10 pages to go. When are we going to get talking about lease VS buy?
I don't bother wasting money on premium fuel. It runs just fine with 7 Eleven 87 octane.
This is why I'll never buy a used car...
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      01-11-2014, 01:34 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitigor View Post
IMO id never buy a new car- only lease, but I would buy a used car
With a lease you still take the depreciation hit. And the first three years are the worst.

I bought my 06 E46 M3 used with 5k miles/6 mos old, and that guy took a tremendous hit on depreciation. The ///M was worth more than I paid for at least two years after that.
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      01-11-2014, 01:39 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
I don't bother wasting money on premium fuel. It runs just fine with 7 Eleven 87 octane.
And what do you drive????

$500 7 series

$600 s class

I think i read this somewhere u wrote
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      01-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #60
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Speaking of value, here's a link to a somewhat local dealer's inventory and pricing on the 146 USED 3 series sedans they have in stock

http://www.eastbaybmw.com/inventory....s&_bodystyle=4
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      01-11-2014, 02:30 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
This is why I'll never buy a used car...
As if that 87 octane really hurt the car.
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      01-11-2014, 03:00 PM   #62
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Wow you guys are idiots. Did you notice the post that I quoted? This forum is a treadmill. There are about 6 subjects that cycle through over and over without end. And every time they come back for a visit the same damn arguments are presented, over and over.

In case you missed it, I was jokingly attempting to derail the stupidity of this rehash as suggested. I just picked a different beaten to death subject.
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      01-11-2014, 03:11 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roki_014 View Post
And what do you drive????

$500 7 series

$600 s class

I think i read this somewhere u wrote
The 7 was $600 and the S was $400. Of course there are 13 others. I like to keep a car for every occasion. The 7 and the S are for longer trips on roads with shitty traffic like the Jersey turnpike when I want an automatic and a quiet ride. The S is also a good don't give a shit car for street parking or to leave at the airport. The 7 is actually a damn nice one owner car.

Oh, and everything gets 93 octane fuel. Why skimp a couple bucks a tank? That's ghetto.
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      01-11-2014, 04:52 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowghost View Post
With a lease you still take the depreciation hit. And the first three years are the worst.

I bought my 06 E46 M3 used with 5k miles/6 mos old, and that guy took a tremendous hit on depreciation. The ///M was worth more than I paid for at least two years after that.
but with a lease at least you know before hand EXACTLY what the depreciation hit will be

nice deal with the e46 though!
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      01-11-2014, 09:07 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC40
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcantuaj
I see 2012 328i's with low mileage going for 25k. I bought mine used thank god....I feel sorry for those bought new.. Seriously upside down....why is this?
Cars are not investments.
Breaking news.....cars don't hold value. Especially the first year or two is when the biggest depreciation hits occur. Unless it's a specialty vehicle with extremely limited production numbers.
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      01-11-2014, 09:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Thanks for that.

I do take JD's results with a grain of salt though. I've tossed more of those surveys in the trash than I can count (..presumably because I really don't have issues with my cars). I think the only one that I went out of my way to complete was the Navigation survey they sent me, and that was only because people complain so much that I felt obliged to give my positive feedback. I think the people without issue(s) disregard these surveys and others that are similar.
JD measures initial satisfaction, not reliability. They use the things gone wrong (TGW) metric (complaints that require dealership action), like not being able to pair the Bluetooth. It's accurate and useful information, mostly from a marketing and business point of view - which trickles down to engineering. But that metric says nothing about how your cam chain will be doing at 70k miles.

I think the problem unique to BMW and other German manufactures are the cost of repairs (parts mostly) and complexity of the systems themselves. The suspensions are generally tighter and thus have more wear parts, along with more advanced powertrains and much more complex CAN networks and the associated electronics. If you have a problem with your power steering pump on an e46, you have to still order super expensive OEM parts while a Honda can use cheap knock-offs or salvage parts from the millions of interchangeable models.
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