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      09-17-2015, 08:12 AM   #133
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I would be curious to see some data showing the model year and mileage of people who have major issues and put it on a graph. Then Expand that out and compare the issues between a first year E90/F30, second year E90/F30, third year etc and see if there is a trend between how new a car is and the long term reliability. I've been part of many different forums for different kinds of cars and I see a trend where weird things happen to the first couple years of a new model. OP, im very sorry to hear about the failure. I have always been a staunch extended warranty advocate for this very reason, you never know when a quality product wil kaboom on you due to circumstances outside your control.
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      05-25-2016, 09:24 PM   #134
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My N20 BMW X3 28i just died.
See my story here..
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...in+malfunction

Basically they "think" the timing chain guide failed and there was plastic and metal shaving found.. Also getting a 17k estimate. Car was 53,000 miles 2013 BMW X3.

I am going to contact BMW and demand they step up and cover it..

Was wondering if anyone else has experience with this.?
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      05-27-2016, 07:41 AM   #135
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You have posted the link to this thread

I assume this is the right one:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=912547
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      05-27-2016, 09:26 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriskyDingo View Post
Lol, so let me get this straight-

You bought a car, failed to buy an extended warranty, drove the car past factory warranty coverage, and are now pissed BMW won't pay to repair it??

Haha, okay. That's exactly what the warranty is for. You drive a car past factory coverage with no protection, you're on your own. I'm sure this was explained to you very clearly when you purchased the car. And I'm sure being a lawyer, you understand it 110%.

The engine *shouldn't* have failed with such mileage if it were properly maintained, but at the end of the day, it's a byproduct of human design, and humans aren't perfect. What would cause you to think BMW is responsible for it is beyond me. You had an opportunity to protect yourself from such occurrences, and didn't. That's on you. Be happy they're willing to extend any help at all.

And good luck with Audi reliability, haha.
There is an expectation that a car, particularly a "well-built" expensive one should last longer than 72k miles. You are right in that they are not obligated to do anything, but if the car was truly well maintained and not abused they should replace it. If they do not, they don't stand behind their product and as more stories like this come out they get a bad reputation in addition to killing the used market for their own cars.
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      05-27-2016, 11:09 AM   #137
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Especially when this is a "known issue". It would be one thing if they issued a recall with a fix and the owner ignored the recall let the engine get out of warranty and then it ate itself.

BMW knows there is a problem with the design but as a business decision are not addressing ALL cars. Fine but then they are IMO obligated to fix any of their products that DO fail.
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      05-28-2016, 03:00 PM   #138
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I am starting a data base on google to keep some data online for BMW drivers.

Please follow the link
I am still waiting for BMW to respond but doesnt seem like they will help except a 25% DISCOUNT OF $18,000.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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      05-30-2016, 04:19 PM   #139
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Here is the letter Im going to send BMW NA. Lets see if they stand by there product or not.

RE: BMW X3 2013
Miles:53,000
RE: Complete Engine Failure of timing chain

I have owned numerous BMW’s in my life and my wife and I both currently drive BMWs. I purchased a new 2013 X3 28i for my family from the XXXXXX BMW dealership. Today, the car sits in the BMW Service Center completely unusable with an estimate of over $18,000 to “possibly” fix.

The purpose of this letter is to express my frustration with my current situation on this vehicle and request for BMW NA assistance to stand by there product and correct this situation.

I distinctly remember the day we picked up X3. There was a loud clicking coming from the engine bay. I was told repeatedly that this was normal for these engines and there was nothing to worry about.

Over the next 3 years the vehicle did have some minor issues and recalls that were all addressed by our local dealer, but overall it performed well and we were happy with our purchase. In fact, I was going to upgrade to a newer X5 or wait for the new X7 for our family car.

Absolutely all of our service, oil changes and maintenance had been performed by the BMW Service Center in Sarasota Florida.

At 48,000 miles we brought in the car for its scheduled maintenance and again complained about the strong ticking noise from the engine bay and now white smoke coming out from the exhaust. There was also an increase in fuel consumption we noticed. Again, we were assured this was normal and not to worry and the vehicle was in perfect shape.

On 5/15/2016 my wife was driving with our 2 young children and the car abruptly stopped giving her a drivetrain malfunction error. The car was a stuck in gear and could not be pushed or placed in neutral and blocked traffic until we could tow it away.

The timing chain guards had shattered and the car was stuck in gear unable to be pushed or driven. After talking to many people and reading multiple post online I found numerous instances of similar BMW X3s and N20 engines all having timing chain failures after 40,000 Miles.

I feel this is BMW's responsibility to completely repair my vehicle due to the signs of abnormal engine noise and white smoke that were warning signs of a defective engine that were never addressed properly.

As a loyal BMW customer I expect the engine not to have a major mechanical failure 3,000 after the warranty expires and only 3.5 years after I purchase the vehicle.

I am hoping that BMW NA will correct this issue. If not I will be forced to obtain legal counsel in order to compensate my losses and lack of a vehicle. I honestly have no interest in seeking punitive damages and only want the vehicle returned to a working reliable condition.

I can say that I have seen over over 20 instances of this N20 engine failing in a similar manner online at www.bimmerfest.com, www.bimmerpost.com, www.bimmerforums.com.

Also this exact issue is described here stating how BMW had changed timing chains due to defects, and I was never notified of this. http://oppositelock.kinja.com/bmw-n2...tes-1716844660

I also have talked to mechanics who have seen similar failures all around and under 50,000 miles.

This needs to be addressed and am kindly writing BMW to rectify this situation.

Respectfully,


Going to send this tomorrow. lets see what happens now...

Last edited by magas; 05-30-2016 at 04:28 PM..
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      05-30-2016, 04:33 PM   #140
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Two small points - 1. second para - correct "there product" to "their product"; and 2. personal preference, but I would not threaten legal action in this first letter to BMW NA.
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      05-31-2016, 01:32 AM   #141
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I will PM you a contact from the executive office ar BMWNA, but please don't threaten to sue at this point. They worked with me in the past... Good luck

Quote:
Originally Posted by magas View Post
Here is the letter Im going to send BMW NA. Lets see if they stand by there product or not.

RE: BMW X3 2013
Miles:53,000
RE: Complete Engine Failure of timing chain

I have owned numerous BMW’s in my life and my wife and I both currently drive BMWs. I purchased a new 2013 X3 28i for my family from the XXXXXX BMW dealership. Today, the car sits in the BMW Service Center completely unusable with an estimate of over $18,000 to “possibly” fix.

The purpose of this letter is to express my frustration with my current situation on this vehicle and request for BMW NA assistance to stand by there product and correct this situation.

I distinctly remember the day we picked up X3. There was a loud clicking coming from the engine bay. I was told repeatedly that this was normal for these engines and there was nothing to worry about.

Over the next 3 years the vehicle did have some minor issues and recalls that were all addressed by our local dealer, but overall it performed well and we were happy with our purchase. In fact, I was going to upgrade to a newer X5 or wait for the new X7 for our family car.

Absolutely all of our service, oil changes and maintenance had been performed by the BMW Service Center in Sarasota Florida.

At 48,000 miles we brought in the car for its scheduled maintenance and again complained about the strong ticking noise from the engine bay and now white smoke coming out from the exhaust. There was also an increase in fuel consumption we noticed. Again, we were assured this was normal and not to worry and the vehicle was in perfect shape.

On 5/15/2016 my wife was driving with our 2 young children and the car abruptly stopped giving her a drivetrain malfunction error. The car was a stuck in gear and could not be pushed or placed in neutral and blocked traffic until we could tow it away.

The timing chain guards had shattered and the car was stuck in gear unable to be pushed or driven. After talking to many people and reading multiple post online I found numerous instances of similar BMW X3s and N20 engines all having timing chain failures after 40,000 Miles.

I feel this is BMW's responsibility to completely repair my vehicle due to the signs of abnormal engine noise and white smoke that were warning signs of a defective engine that were never addressed properly.

As a loyal BMW customer I expect the engine not to have a major mechanical failure 3,000 after the warranty expires and only 3.5 years after I purchase the vehicle.

I am hoping that BMW NA will correct this issue. If not I will be forced to obtain legal counsel in order to compensate my losses and lack of a vehicle. I honestly have no interest in seeking punitive damages and only want the vehicle returned to a working reliable condition.

I can say that I have seen over over 20 instances of this N20 engine failing in a similar manner online at www.bimmerfest.com, www.bimmerpost.com, www.bimmerforums.com.

Also this exact issue is described here stating how BMW had changed timing chains due to defects, and I was never notified of this. http://oppositelock.kinja.com/bmw-n2...tes-1716844660

I also have talked to mechanics who have seen similar failures all around and under 50,000 miles.

This needs to be addressed and am kindly writing BMW to rectify this situation.

Respectfully,


Going to send this tomorrow. lets see what happens now...
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      05-31-2016, 03:00 AM   #142
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Don't threaten them.
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      05-31-2016, 02:08 PM   #143
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How many of these failures have there been? Is it generally due to timing chain guide failure? My wife drives a 2014 X3 with 27k on the clock, just wondering if I should do some preventive checks to the guides?
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      05-31-2016, 07:08 PM   #144
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Unclear....

All I would say is don't be a fool and upgrade before the warranty is over or get the extended warranty. I have read numerous complaints online and started keeping a list here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...AH4/edit#gid=0

Only BMW knows how many times this timing chain and engine has had similar failures. I will let you know what they officially tell me. They did change the timing belt product code....
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/bmw-n2...tes-1716844660
I am assuming for issues, but no official recall has been made only maybe some service bulletins.

Ill keep you posted on what they tell me.
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      06-01-2016, 12:05 AM   #145
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Did you ever reach out to any of the BMW dealerships in the Midwest like I suggested? I'm thankful my car was in the shop when the new tech from out there was working and pinpointed the noise immediately. PUMA took all of a day to get approved.
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      06-01-2016, 03:30 AM   #146
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N20 timing chain is the same as in N55/S55/N51/N52/N52N engines, so its probably ok. chain tensioner (p/n : 11317567680) is used in N43/N42/N46/N46N/N20 last part nr. update was on 2007, way earlier before N20 came into production.
guide rail (p/n 11317592877) production started on 2011, no updates till now.
slide rail (p/n 11317592850) production started on 2008, last update on 2010, no updates till now.
sprocked (p/n 11317603944) production started on 2011, no updates.

So, probably I'm missing something here, can anyone tell me what parts would probably cause timing chain failure and should be changed.
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      06-01-2016, 09:46 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13
N20 timing chain is the same as in N55/S55/N51/N52/N52N engines, so its probably ok. chain tensioner (p/n : 11317567680) is used in N43/N42/N46/N46N/N20 last part nr. update was on 2007, way earlier before N20 came into production.
guide rail (p/n 11317592877) production started on 2011, no updates till now.
slide rail (p/n 11317592850) production started on 2008, last update on 2010, no updates till now.
sprocked (p/n 11317603944) production started on 2011, no updates.

So, probably I'm missing something here, can anyone tell me what parts would probably cause timing chain failure and should be changed.
This is what they changed on mine, albeit it hadn't failed yet but was stretched and on its way out.

[IMG]http://d.pr/i/AXuy+[/IMG]
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      06-03-2016, 08:14 AM   #148
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Add me to the list. The car is 2013 model year with 45k miles, euro model 320i stick with n20 engine. Cam chain guide failure. Warranty has expired for some time now. Since we will be removing the engine, will take a look at other internals and replace whatever is needed. For now we already planned to replace the oil pump chain with guides and cam chain with guides.
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      06-03-2016, 12:53 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
N20 timing chain is the same as in N55...
Let's assume this is the fact. The other fact is that in N55 thread there are no discussions about failed chains. What does that mean? Right - the chain stretches in N20 not because the chain is bad, but for some other reason.

The timing chain problem in N20 is often reported/overlaps with oil pump chain failure. What if the pump is the root cause. Let's assume on failure it:
a) builds up significant back pressure. This causes extreme wеar on oil chain mechanism.
b) stops delivering adequate volume of oil into upper part on the engine. As the result VANOS build up resistance, thus causing timing chain stretching and subsequent failure.
One of those chains fails first, can be either one.
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      06-03-2016, 03:36 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
N20 timing chain is the same as in N55...
Let's assume this is the fact. The other fact is that in N55 thread there are no discussions about failed chains. What does that mean? Right - the chain stretches in N20 not because the chain is bad, but for some other reason.

The timing chain problem in N20 is often reported/overlaps with oil pump chain failure. What if the pump is the root cause. Let's assume on failure it:
a) builds up significant back pressure. This causes extreme wеar on oil chain mechanism.
b) stops delivering adequate volume of oil into upper part on the engine. As the result VANOS build up resistance, thus causing timing chain stretching and subsequent failure.
One of those chains fails first, can be either one.
When the dealership tech did mine he had to take video first of sound then once PUMA was approved tech exchanged pictures and answered questions with BMW NA. They evaluated condition of everything opened up and replaced the chain & guide with misc hardware. If it was the oil pump causing the issue you would think that would have been determined at that time right?
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      06-03-2016, 03:53 PM   #151
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I found this video that that shows an N20 making the same sound mine was before they did the work. I'm kind of wondering if it was the oil pump and they didn't replace it if I should be worried.

[Video]
[/video]
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      06-04-2016, 02:49 AM   #152
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oil pressure is map controlled and monitored by ecu continously. if it will be lower than desired values you will errors in ecu at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed View Post
b) stops delivering adequate volume of oil into upper part on the engine. As the result VANOS build up resistance, thus causing timing chain stretching and subsequent failure.
One of those chains fails first, can be either one.
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      06-04-2016, 05:11 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davitd View Post
Add me to the list. The car is 2013 model year with 45k miles, euro model 320i stick with n20 engine. Cam chain guide failure. Warranty has expired for some time now. Since we will be removing the engine, will take a look at other internals and replace whatever is needed. For now we already planned to replace the oil pump chain with guides and cam chain with guides.
I added you to the online public list Im keeping.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...AH4/edit#gid=0

Why wasn't this covered by the warranty at 45k miles.
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      06-04-2016, 11:55 PM   #154
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What's the deal with these n20s my friend's just started blowing white smoke at 28k miles.
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