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      08-06-2013, 10:39 AM   #1
Wrinckled
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320i xDrive with 6MT

Why is it that you can not purchase a 320 or 328 xDrive in manual transmission?
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      08-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #2
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It's simple, not enough sales to justify. If more people bought them, they would still be offered.
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      08-06-2013, 12:22 PM   #3
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Because BMW wants you to buy the 335 xDrive with Manual and pay that nice big sticker price instead.
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      08-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #4
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320x is offered in manual in London but not 328x or 335x. And its priced appropriately lower too! 335x is offered here in manual but at the same price as an auto, as the previous post says just to squeeze more $$ out of us! BMW wont release figures for sales of MT in the US but MT & AT being priced the same is ridiculous & unfair & thoroughly unearned/undeserved profit for bmw.
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      08-06-2013, 12:34 PM   #5
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Supply and demand.

BMW knows it's markets, and they know when a product has such small sales it doesn't make sense to offer a version, especially if it might cannibalize sales of a more pricey product with higher margins.
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      08-06-2013, 01:06 PM   #6
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Understood now, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
Supply and demand.

BMW knows it's markets, and they know when a product has such small sales it doesn't make sense to offer a version, especially if it might cannibalize sales of a more pricey product with higher margins.
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      08-06-2013, 01:36 PM   #7
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by pricing the ATs and MTs the same BMW doesn't have to worry about MTs cannibalizing AT sales. If anything, given the assembly lines are flexible enough to custom-build, they should be even happier with whatever extra they can steal off of MTs with their pricing strategy. would love to see some inside info on this
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      08-06-2013, 02:11 PM   #8
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I wonder if it's worth asking if they can do it... I'd LOVE to get a 320i xDrive state side!!! How would I even go about arranging this?

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Originally Posted by swamy View Post
by pricing the ATs and MTs the same BMW doesn't have to worry about MTs cannibalizing AT sales. If anything, given the assembly lines are flexible enough to custom-build, they should be even happier with whatever extra they can steal off of MTs with their pricing strategy. would love to see some inside info on this
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      08-06-2013, 02:43 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wrinckled View Post
I wonder if it's worth asking if they can do it... I'd LOVE to get a 320i xDrive state side!!! How would I even go about arranging this?
It's not happening.

Even ED and built to orders.
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      08-06-2013, 02:52 PM   #10
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My speculation: Manual transmissions are something chosen by folks who care about driving and interacting with the car as much as they can. That's not the market segment at which the 320i is targeted.

I think it's a shame they don't offer the manual because a manual can make a car having average 0-60 power/speed feel peppier than it really is. Though my middle kid got a sparsely optioned 328i (the 320 wasn't offered at the time), my third child will very likely get a loaded 320i being that my budget goal for the car I give him is $40K to $41K.

Even so, the 320i offers an excellent bargain as goes getting sport suspension. One gets the great handling for several hundred dollars less than having to choose sport line in a 328i. In my mind, it's the way to go if one isn't obsessed with straight line acceleration and wants a smart daily driver with lots of gizmos more than lots of speed.
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      08-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
My speculation: Manual transmissions are something chosen by folks who care about driving and interacting with the car as much as they can. That's not the market segment at which the 320i is targeted.

I think it's a shame they don't offer the manual because a manual can make a car having average 0-60 power/speed feel peppier than it really is. Though my middle kid got a sparsely optioned 328i (the 320 wasn't offered at the time), my third child will very likely get a loaded 320i being that my budget goal for the car I give him is $40K to $41K.

Even so, the 320i offers an excellent bargain as goes getting sport suspension. One gets the great handling for several hundred dollars less than having to choose sport line in a 328i. In my mind, it's the way to go if one isn't obsessed with straight line acceleration and wants a smart daily driver with lots of gizmos more than lots of speed.
This exactly ^ !

Now will you be allowing your son to tune the 320i? The JB4 Stage 2 tune on a 320i is pumping out more power than a 328i.
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      08-06-2013, 03:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
My speculation: Manual transmissions are something chosen by folks who care about driving and interacting with the car as much as they can. That's not the market segment at which the 320i is targeted.
how about the 328?
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      08-06-2013, 03:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narlus View Post
how about the 328?
Still can't do MT on those either. Only the 335i xDrive offers 6 speed.
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      08-06-2013, 03:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
It's not happening.

Even ED and built to orders.
Sadly you might be right here. But S&D doesnt explain why (or fully why) - when margins are ostensibly higher on the MT.
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      08-06-2013, 03:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narlus View Post
how about the 328?
It was on the menu until a couple of years ago. But to BMWs credit, the offer a lot more MT options in their lines than Lexus or Cadillacs
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      08-06-2013, 04:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrinckled View Post
This exactly ^ !

Now will you be allowing your son to tune the 320i? ...
Not with money he receives from me.
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      08-07-2013, 09:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamy View Post
Sadly you might be right here. But S&D doesnt explain why (or fully why) - when margins are ostensibly higher on the MT.
Sorry if my comment wasn't clear.

Margins are not higher on a MT car. (At least, not likely by any significant amount)

If the options for an AWD MT car is only the 335i (which is a higher margin car) that means if you really want those two options you'll probably get the 335i.

Otherwise you'll live with the high volume AT, or a RWD car (since most niche people who want a MT are also the crazies who only want to drive two of their wheels)

It makes sense to offer in Europe where MT's and small engines are a much higher percentage of sales.

While it doesn't cost anything for BMW to build that car and ship it to the US, they always try to limit the # of permutations of cars they have to build, otherwise it just becomes even more difficult to manage.

I'm sure the reason they said "we won't build that car" is because they looked historically at their data for how many MT X drive 328i's they sold and realized it wasn't a big enough niche to warrant building.

Case in point if I search for 328 X drive on Ebaymotors there are about 400 cars with the automatic, and 10 with the manual. If that's any indication, then building a car that only appeases less than .25% of your purchasing audience, why bother? If that .25% doesn't like it they'll either buy a more expensive car or go elsewhere, and that's a decision they're willing to deal with.

You can ask the same questions for things like why doesn't the 320i have an option for dynamic handling? or why won't the 4 series in the US get a 20i trim, etc. And usually it comes down to the same exact answer - because no one wants it.

Supply and demand. No demand, no supply.
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      08-07-2013, 10:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrinckled View Post
Why is it that you can not purchase a 320 or 328 xDrive in manual transmission?
the same reason why you CAN get a 328i RWD in 6speed. It's just the way it is and what they want you to do.

And for the price diff, i'd do it.
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      08-07-2013, 10:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
...
While it doesn't cost anything for BMW to build that car and ship it to the US, they always try to limit the # of permutations of cars they have to build, otherwise it just becomes even more difficult to manage.
...
Supply and demand. No demand, no supply.
One thing not mentioned yet (in this thread) is that permutations are not "free", as Swamy seems to believe. Each permutation of AT/MT/Engine costs money to certify for the US market (EPA, NHTSA). (The actual cost has seen much discussion, but it's certainly in the 7-figure range). For high-value cars like the M3, another couple thousand dollars to amortize over a small run of cars doesn't make much difference, but for cars like the 320i where BMW is trying to hold down costs, it's a lot percentage wise.

If they're only going to sell a couple thousand MT 320i or 320xi, it doesn't make sense for BMW. It would also piss off buyers that had to pay more for the MT version than the AT version (where the certification cost can be amortized over many more cars.)

This has been really borne out by the F31 wagon offerings: AWD AT, diesel or petrol. BMW has sold fewer than 3,000 wagons each year in the US/CA market for the last two models (E46, E91). Very few MT's (my guess is fewer than 500 combined xi/i). Yet the wagon still costs $2500 or so more than the sedans.

Last edited by floydarogers; 08-07-2013 at 11:02 AM.. Reason: add wagon
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      08-07-2013, 01:44 PM   #20
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I'm not totally sure but to be legal, I think government regulatory standards require separate submissions and pass tests (e.g., emission) for cars with different transmissions. So I think that's why you can't just special order a manual transmission car because it may have never been submitted (e.g., for cost reasons) hence not legal.
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      08-07-2013, 03:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
Sorry if my comment wasn't clear.

Margins are not higher on a MT car. (At least, not likely by any significant amount)

If the options for an AWD MT car is only the 335i (which is a higher margin car) that means if you really want those two options you'll probably get the 335i.

Otherwise you'll live with the high volume AT, or a RWD car (since most niche people who want a MT are also the crazies who only want to drive two of their wheels)

It makes sense to offer in Europe where MT's and small engines are a much higher percentage of sales.

While it doesn't cost anything for BMW to build that car and ship it to the US, they always try to limit the # of permutations of cars they have to build, otherwise it just becomes even more difficult to manage.

I'm sure the reason they said "we won't build that car" is because they looked historically at their data for how many MT X drive 328i's they sold and realized it wasn't a big enough niche to warrant building.

Case in point if I search for 328 X drive on Ebaymotors there are about 400 cars with the automatic, and 10 with the manual. If that's any indication, then building a car that only appeases less than .25% of your purchasing audience, why bother? If that .25% doesn't like it they'll either buy a more expensive car or go elsewhere, and that's a decision they're willing to deal with.

You can ask the same questions for things like why doesn't the 320i have an option for dynamic handling? or why won't the 4 series in the US get a 20i trim, etc. And usually it comes down to the same exact answer - because no one wants it.

Supply and demand. No demand, no supply.
Ok. What I was trying to make sense of was from a manufacturing cost stand point. When a product is offered in some market already, theres no additional marginal cost involved in offering it elsewhere but if there's regulatory issues impacting the cost like floydarogers implies, that changes things. Thanks for clarifying though.
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      08-07-2013, 04:16 PM   #22
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Yeah, if you take a look at just the EPA website they have a list of all the cars they've tested, and the drive train + transmission are always different valuables, so it adds a lot of permutations when you multiply 3 engines x 2 drivetrains x 2 transmissions.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm
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