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      11-02-2017, 10:59 AM   #23
autopal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
It's a great idea to have the camera hidden to keep it clean. Not sure I would trust BMW to implement it in a reliable and easy to maintain manner though. Those Munich engineers would come up with some ridiculously complicated Rube Goldberg implementation relying on a hidden iDrive setting and a dashboard scroll wheel you'd have to adjust depending on the weather. And then marketing would make the whole feature an extra cost which you could bypass via coding which would get wiped every software update. And then to replace the camera you'd have to remove an underbody panel and drop a subframe to access the mounting point.
Not sure I agree with what you are saying. Mercedes have been doing this for years, with no issues. Heck, even Volkswagen have that camera hidden on lots of its models, where the VW emblem just flips when you put the car in reverse. Are you saying BMW engineers are not that talented? I doubt that
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      11-02-2017, 11:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by autopal View Post
Not sure I agree with what you are saying. Mercedes have been doing this for years, with no issues. Heck, even Volkswagen have that camera hidden on lots of its models, where the VW emblem just flips when you put the car in reverse. Are you saying BMW engineers are not that talented? I doubt that
I'm just being a little tongue-in-cheek. Google how to repair the cable when your hood release doesn't work - you have to drop a couple of underbody panels to get to it. To replace the oil pan gasket you have to drop the subframe (actually I might be confusing that with something else). The dashboard vent scroll wheel has been confounding owners for decades. Owners of white BMWs have to apply black electrical tape to get the camera to work at night. Enabling rear camera guidelines actually is hidden in iDrive. Many F3x owners are applying gummi pfledge and teflon tape to stop the door seals from squeaking. So many people can't figure out how driver profiles work that somebody wrote a detailed how-to and people still can't figure it out.

In the end it's all just lulz; we're all friends here
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      11-02-2017, 12:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
I'm just being a little tongue-in-cheek. Google how to repair the cable when your hood release doesn't work - you have to drop a couple of underbody panels to get to it. To replace the oil pan gasket you have to drop the subframe (actually I might be confusing that with something else). The dashboard vent scroll wheel has been confounding owners for decades. Owners of white BMWs have to apply black electrical tape to get the camera to work at night. Enabling rear camera guidelines actually is hidden in iDrive. Many F3x owners are applying gummi pfledge and teflon tape to stop the door seals from squeaking. So many people can't figure out how driver profiles work that somebody wrote a detailed how-to and people still can't figure it out.

In the end it's all just lulz; we're all friends here
lol silly germans
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      11-02-2017, 12:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
I'm just being a little tongue-in-cheek. Google how to repair the cable when your hood release doesn't work - you have to drop a couple of underbody panels to get to it. To replace the oil pan gasket you have to drop the subframe (actually I might be confusing that with something else). The dashboard vent scroll wheel has been confounding owners for decades. Owners of white BMWs have to apply black electrical tape to get the camera to work at night. Enabling rear camera guidelines actually is hidden in iDrive. Many F3x owners are applying gummi pfledge and teflon tape to stop the door seals from squeaking. So many people can't figure out how driver profiles work that somebody wrote a detailed how-to and people still can't figure it out.

In the end it's all just lulz; we're all friends here
But how do I get this transmission in neutral when the car won't start? All I have to do is press a button, right?

I believe we have come to the conclusion that some like the idea when others feel that it is absolutely unnecessary and is more or less something else that "can go". Even if it NEVER breaks, no one can really say they really NEED it. I would like to see a little wiper on that bad boy....now THAT'S something that'll break
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      11-02-2017, 01:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
It's a great idea to have the camera hidden to keep it clean. Not sure I would trust BMW to implement it in a reliable and easy to maintain manner though. Those Munich engineers would come up with some ridiculously complicated Rube Goldberg implementation relying on a hidden iDrive setting and a dashboard scroll wheel you'd have to adjust depending on the weather. And then marketing would make the whole feature an extra cost which you could bypass via coding which would get wiped every software update. And then to replace the camera you'd have to remove an underbody panel and drop a subframe to access the mounting point.
My door lock actuators are failing. And I'm going to trust a pop out back up camera? No thanks.
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      11-02-2017, 01:20 PM   #28
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But how do I get this transmission in neutral when the car won't start? All I have to do is press a button, right?
OMG, I totally forgot about that classic. When your battery is dead and the car is stuck in park, all you need to do to get into neutral is call a BMW technician who will come out to your house with special tools and shimmy under the car to turn the secret hidden knob. A knob which I understand used to be somewhere accessible (via the armrest?) and you got a special tool for it with the car but that was apparently too easy so BMW changed it up to give their techs something to do in their spare time.
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      11-02-2017, 01:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by autopal View Post
Not sure I agree with what you are saying. Mercedes have been doing this for years, with no issues. Heck, even Volkswagen have that camera hidden on lots of its models, where the VW emblem just flips when you put the car in reverse. Are you saying BMW engineers are not that talented? I doubt that
"No issues"? C'mon now--how am I supposed to believe that any mfg has "no" issues on some system or part. Even Toyotas and Hondas have failures sometimes.

Besides the fact that you can't possibly know this information, and that searching posts on owner's forums doesn't prove or disprove how widespread any issue really is.
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      11-02-2017, 01:23 PM   #30
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My door lock actuators are failing. And I'm going to trust a pop out back up camera? No thanks.
Just like the "modern" and "reliable" motor in the cup holder failed when I had the Caddy! No thanks...and please, no GM jokes
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      11-02-2017, 01:32 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
"No issues"? C'mon now--how am I supposed to believe that any mfg has "no" issues on some system or part. Even Toyotas and Hondas have failures sometimes.

Besides the fact that you can't possibly know this information, and that searching posts on owner's forums doesn't prove or disprove how widespread any issue really is.
4 evaporators in 5 years with my X5, around 12-15 window regulators over 10 years between my E46 and E53. When I'm buying a new BMW I tend to skip features in order to not have more stuff to break. Although it's kinda hard to avoid windows and a/c.

To be fair, no real issues with my F30 after 4 years, although the oil pan gasket was just replaced this week at the very end of the warranty.
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      11-02-2017, 01:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Auditobimmer42 View Post
lol silly germans
*zilly *shermanz
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Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      11-02-2017, 02:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
4 evaporators in 5 years with my X5, around 12-15 window regulators over 10 years between my E46 and E53. When I'm buying a new BMW I tend to skip features in order to not have more stuff to break. Although it's kinda hard to avoid windows and a/c.

To be fair, no real issues with my F30 after 4 years, although the oil pan gasket was just replaced this week at the very end of the warranty.
The Progressive commercial "Dad Support Group" has merit to it--my dad would never order power windows because they were the "first thing that breaks." Do I believe that a pop out backup camera will be more likely to break--yes; will I avoid buying a car with one--no. I don't subscribe to the "first thing that breaks" mantra; mine is the "over-engineering for no real purpose" mantra. Like cars that still have a pop-up nav screen--why? Just to look cool. Every function is now controlled with the screen--why would it ever be down? Same with the Jaguar dial gearshift. These are cost-cutting items I could get behind.
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      11-02-2017, 03:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
The Progressive commercial "Dad Support Group" has merit to it--my dad would never order power windows because they were the "first thing that breaks." Do I believe that a pop out backup camera will be more likely to break--yes; will I avoid buying a car with one--no. I don't subscribe to the "first thing that breaks" mantra; mine is the "over-engineering for no real purpose" mantra. Like cars that still have a pop-up nav screen--why? Just to look cool. Every function is now controlled with the screen--why would it ever be down? Same with the Jaguar dial gearshift. These are cost-cutting items I could get behind.
lol my dad is the same way. Anything motorized gets limited usage. For a while he used to be paranoid about running the AC too hard.

And omg the pop up screen- Head over to audi forums to see how much A4 users whine about that. Granted the implementation of the fixed screen is not as elegant as BMW. But still..I don't think Audi was lying when they said no one closes them anymore.
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      11-02-2017, 04:28 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by autopal View Post
I guarantee if you guys drive a Mercedes for a week, you will understand my point. Not only is the camera crystal clear, high resolution, but the view never change, regardless if its snow, dust or whatever. We are talking about modern cars here, and if we worry about reliability, there are a lot of innovations on cars over the last 10 years or so, that we would avoid. My wife drives a Ford, and she constantly have to be cleaning the camera lens. Sure, it's not difficult to clean, just take a few seconds each time, even though most times she doesn't realize it needs cleaning until she put her car in reverse. We are talking about a luxury brand here though, and a C class camera system should not be superior to a 7 series. This is not a big enough reason not to buy BMW, I think the straight 6 engine is easily the best motor in the segment, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't point it out. I absolutely love the car, but was also surprised by a couple more small but annoying things. No place to put my sunglasses, even my son's Mazda 3 have the flip down sunglasses holder above the rear view mirror, and no centre console storage, I'm guessing because the car comes with wireless phone charging.
Good luck convincing BMW forum that it's superior
It's like going to a Lexus forum and try to say that BMW engine is way better and yet reliable
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      11-02-2017, 07:14 PM   #36
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I get the point. In bad weather especially when the lens gets dirty you gotta clean it. But how spoiled are we now that even doing that much is such an issue. lol. First world problems.
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      11-03-2017, 08:03 AM   #37
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First world problems = I want the features that I paid for to work without extra maintenance
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Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      11-08-2017, 10:57 PM   #38
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Just don't let your car get that dirty or at least wipe off the lens. Not a big deal.
You just have to drive in swirling snow, or any amount of damp roads for that camera to get covered.

I do see the OP's complaint. I drive to work, and if I left home with a clear camera lens, it's 100% useless backing into a stall at work after driving down a snowy or muddy road.
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      11-09-2017, 08:59 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Wires View Post
You just have to drive in swirling snow, or any amount of damp roads for that camera to get covered.

I do see the OP's complaint. I drive to work, and if I left home with a clear camera lens, it's 100% useless backing into a stall at work after driving down a snowy or muddy road.
I don't think I've had that problem in the snow or maybe I just didn't notice the camera wasn't showing anything because I would just turn around and look out the back window old-school-ghetto-style. Again, not a huge problem.
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      11-10-2017, 10:13 PM   #40
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I typically just use the mirrors anyways, I just notice that the camera gets sludge covered in crappy weather.
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      11-13-2017, 12:26 AM   #41
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saw the MB back up cam in action and thought it was pretty neat. but not something that would affect my purchase decision.
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      11-20-2017, 04:53 AM   #42
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I've had issues backing up before with raindrops on my backup camera as well.
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      11-20-2017, 07:36 AM   #43
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BMW already do this with the 6 series so it's kind of proven.

Have to say I was gutted moving from the 6 to the 4 to have a dirty reverse camera, very irritating.
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      11-20-2017, 11:04 AM   #44
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no doubt about it...

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Originally Posted by RedKloud View Post
Completely agreed. MB cams have much better resolution and viewing angle. F30 cam is crap.
I tested a C43 and was blown away by the wider viewing angle and superior resolution.
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