[2M]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Lane change in the middle of intersection is not a good practice, around here cops do issue tickets for unsafe lane change. OP could have allowed SUV to pass on left, but did not.

What puzzles me is that the SUV took so much time to decide to pass on left@1:22. SUV could have started the pass by 1:15. My guess is OP started to brake@1:22 to stop for the next light, and SUV might thought it was a brake check. :dunno:

And it may not be easy to avoid contact at second intersection, as the SUV was braking hard to avoid rear ending the stopped car in front, plus by the time the cars were side by side@1:24 there was only enough space to squeeze in one not both cars.

OP pretty much had to brake hard by 1:22 when SUV started to move left, so that SUV could merge back in time, but that hard brake also could cut off distance between OP and SUV fast, and caused SUV to clip/rear end OP.

OP could have avoided that contact by simply swerving in the opposite traffic lane since it was wide open too. Was the accident the op's fault? No. Was it avoidable? Absolutely.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by 2M

OP could have avoided that contact by simply swerving in the opposite traffic lane since it was wide open too. Was the accident the op's fault? No. Was it avoidable? Absolutely.

That's a good point, although crossing double yellow line to opposite traffic probably will lead to more serious issues than fender bender.

[ScarecrowBoat]

Originally Posted by Wires

Dude... you might want to ACTUALLY WATCH YOUR OWN VIDEO. At 1:26, you're doing 31MPH as he's passing you. Your speed drops to 30MPH when YOU clipped him, and then you braked.

Like come on already, you're not a victim. Just because you are "following the rules of the law" and induce an accident, you're not a victim. You initiated the original cause of it at 1:11 by cutting him off, and then you finished it at 1:26 by clipping him.

If you see someone jaywalking in front of you (they are in the wrong), do you brake or run them over? Obviously in your case, you'd run them over because you are following the rules of the law, and then post a video showing what kind of a moron you are. Or not braking when someone does an unsafe left turn in front of you. I'm assuming you'd T-bone the person and post a video?

Perhaps you were so busy texting that you didn't actual see the cars around you?

Do all Canadians share your horrible driving mentality?

[pz619]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

It is illegal in CA to lane change in the middle of intersection, especially when there is only one lane going into the intersection. It is $600(or up?) so most around here are conditioned not to do it.

So not to be that guy (which means I will) you can technically change lanes in an intersection in California provided it's safe with a signal light. Agree though it's not a good idea.

Source: got a ticket, successfully dismissed in court. The actual violation was for an unsafe lane change which the sole justification was that it was in an intersection.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by pz619

So not to be that guy (which means I will) you can technically change lanes in an intersection in California provided it's safe with a signal light. Agree though it's not a good idea.

Source: got a ticket, successfully dismissed in court. The actual violation was for an unsafe lane change which the sole justification was that it was in an intersection.

Well the traffic judges around here are not as lenient as your locales in similar scenarios as OP + SUV.

[asuh1991]

Can we just agree OP is a terrible driver and close this. Its ok to be a shitty driver, a great deal of people are. When I was in high school I got into a few accidents that were 100% not my fault technically but my dad still scolded me for saying if I was more experienced I could have avoided it.

Part of what makes you a good driver is being aware of your surroundings at all times right? This guy didn't even know what was going on until he crashed.

[jgoens]

You guys are still talking about this?

[Delete1]

I see what your saying that the lanes merged but where u cut him off there were still dash lines which indicate u still need to put ur directionals to merge into that lane. If you saw him already in the lane why not speed up and merge infront or slow down put ur directional and go behind him. Either way I think that was very avoidable. I'm 26 been driving for 9+ years as I live in NYC and I have to deal with that kind of traffic everyday, I could assure you that scenario would've never happen to me. Still doesn't justify his behavior but I would've probably reacted the same to be honest.

Hope you get your car back nice and clean I'm sure no one wants to deal with the hassle.

[CalCarNut]

Yukon driver straddles the lanes right before turning indicating he's an a-hole already......the truck signaled...was already in the lane and got cut off. Him clipping the car is totally his fault but would have been a non-issue I'm guessing if someone would have raised a hand 'im sorry!'...etc. Cut-offs happen all the time w/o accidents occurring and just a one finger salute..so this moron took it to the next level.....at least the bicycle rider didn't get hammered by the big UTE...the guy chose to gamble with the car in front and to the side..which I'm okay with...

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Supremeceas

I see what your saying that the lanes merged but where u cut him off there were still dash lines which indicate u still need to put ur directionals to merge into that lane. If you saw him already in the lane why not speed up and merge infront or slow down put ur directional and go behind him. Either way I think that was very avoidable. I'm 26 been driving for 9+ years as I live in NYC and I have to deal with that kind of traffic everyday, I could assure you that scenario would've never happen to me. Still doesn't justify his behavior but I would've probably reacted the same to be honest.

Was the SUV still at crosswalk, while the OP already started to move left and crossed the middle dotted line?

The left lane does not really start until after the intersection, so if OP enters the left lane first, OP will have the right of way.

SUV positioning itself in the middle of the intersection to enter the left lane did not give it the right of way since OP beat SUV to the left lane.

[mfstrby]

let's keep this thread alive for a while

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by colonel_bagshot

let's keep this thread alive for a while

It is quite surprising posters see things so differently.

E.g. many says OP cut off SUV at first intersection, but looking at the video carefully, OP travels at normal speed, following flow of traffic of previous 2 cars, around 25mph(?) when they crossed the crosswalk after the light. It looks like OP fell behind the other other 2 cars by a lot, but OP also started moving 2 seconds after the first car, and all 3 cars gradually accelerated up to 33-35mph.

It looks like SUV also was around 25mph exiting the intersection, but then sped up above OP's speed(and not following flow of traffic), entering the left lane after the intersection, while OP already started the left merge before SUV entered left lane.

So it seems the SUV traveling above normal speed(which some says PA uses instead of posted speed limit) was the one cutting off the OP from behind.

BTW this video was brought up at Thanksgiving dinner to trump(no punt intended) the heated(no kidding) discussions at the dinner table.

[CIWS]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

It is quite surprising posters see things so differently.

Why yes, they do.

Originally Posted by bavarianride

It looks like SUV also was around 25mph exiting the intersection, but then sped up above OP's speed(and not following flow of traffic), entering the left lane after the intersection, while OP already started the left merge before SUV entered left lane.

Hmmmmm.

Here they are at 1:13. The OP still hasn't cleared the crosswalk (can see it off his left nose) The SUV is in the intersection and has already started into the left lane and accelerating. OP doesn't start moving over until he is completely through the crosswalk.





Here at 1:14 the OP has started his move to the left lane, but as you can see the SUV is already in the left lane just clearing the crosswalk and accelerating.





Here at 1:15 the SUV is still accelerating up in the left lane and the OP may have his left tire on the dashed line ? But he is still mostly in the right lane (look in the front and rear cameras) and that accelerating SUV looks less than a car length from his rear at this point.





By 1:16 the OP has entered into the left lane, not quite halfway yet though, but that SUV at this point is very close to his rear while accelerating.




The SUV begins braking late at 1:16 into 1:17 to avoid hitting him.


It would appear the SUV was already fully in the left lane and accelerating when the OP moved over into the left lane and cut him off.

[lens]

Originally Posted by CIWS

Why yes, they do.




Hmmmmm.

Here they are at 1:13. The OP still hasn't cleared the crosswalk (can see it off his left nose) The SUV is in the intersection and has already started into the left lane and accelerating. OP doesn't start moving over until he is completely through the crosswalk.





Here at 1:14 the OP has started his move to the left lane, but as you can see the SUV is already in the left lane just clearing the crosswalk and accelerating.





Here at 1:15 the SUV is still accelerating up in the left lane and the OP may have his left tire on the dashed line ? But he is still mostly in the right lane (look in the front and rear cameras) and that accelerating SUV looks less than a car length from his rear at this point.





By 1:16 the OP has entered into the left lane, not quite halfway yet though, but that SUV at this point is very close to his rear while accelerating.




The SUV begins braking late at 1:16 into 1:17 to avoid hitting him.


It would appear the SUV was already fully in the left lane and accelerating when the OP moved over into the left lane and cut him off.

Either way, the one thing should be pointed out here.

Even if OP cut him off and such, as a driver you should remain calm and wait for a better opportunity to overtake later instead of being impatient. Yes OP was probably driving bad but the Yukon guy should have remained calm and just drove behind OP till he had to go where he had to go.

I've had things like this happen where the guy like OP would not let me overtake until we reached the highway and then I just activated my rockets and overtook him faster than he could check his mirrors. In this case, the Yukon guy could've drove a couple minutes behind OP and chill instead of being 1 car ahead which does absolutely nothing because there's a million other cars in front of him anyways.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by CIWS

Here at 1:14 the OP has started his move to the left lane, but as you can see the SUV is already in the left lane just clearing the crosswalk and accelerating.

Unfortunately there is no camera angle to show when OP's tire crossed the middle dotted line, my comment was based on the reflection of OP's dash center air vent on OP's windshield.

Using that as a gauge/ruler, it looks like OP started the move to the left around 1:13 , while SUV barely entered the left lane@1:14, and OP was at least 30-40 feet ahead(2+ car lengths) of SUV.

Also other posts mentioned PA uses normal speed instead of posted speed limit. OP did follow the other cars in front to go from 25mph to 33mph(as show on dashcam speedo).

On the other hand, SUV did not follow normal speed, and aggressively accelerated from behind to close that 30+ feet gap and cut off OP's left merge.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by CIWS

It would appear the SUV was already fully in the left lane and accelerating when the OP moved over into the left lane and cut him off.

+1. Considering the size differential between the SUV and the OPs car either the OP has a death wish or he simply didn't check his side view mirror before turning into the left lane. His 'I was merging' story doesn't hold water. You can clearly see a car still in the right lane some 100 yards in front of him, with no road signs or road paint indicating the need to merge left. Even in that case the right of way belongs to the driver already in the left lane.

The only point of view that seems to matter to the OP is the one seen in the front facing camera. The one that matters more is the one seen in the rear view camera. This jibes with what seems to be the OPs driving habit, which is to only look in front of him, and not behind.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

+1. Considering the size differential between the SUV and the OPs car either the OP has a death wish or he simply didn't check his side view mirror before turning into the left lane. His 'I was merging' story doesn't hold water. You can clearly see a car still in the right lane some 100 yards in front of him, with no road signs or road paint indicating the need to merge left. Even in that case the right of way belongs to the driver already in the left lane.

The only point of view that seems to matter to the OP is the one seen in the front facing camera. The one that matters more is the one seen in the rear view camera. This jibes with what seems to be the OPs driving habit, which is to only look in front of him, and not behind.

It would be interesting to have some festers from PA to clarify. Without speed limit, and with SUV accelerating/speeding beyond the normal speed of flow of traffic, will the SUV be liable if SUV does hit OP in the middle of OP's left merge?

Around here, if speed limit is 25mph(e.g.), and if someone races down the left lane at 40mph and hit a left merge at 25mph, the one going 40mph will be liable.

[CIWS]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Either way, the one thing should be pointed out here.

Even if OP cut him off and such, as a driver you should remain calm and wait for a better opportunity to overtake later instead of being impatient. Yes OP was probably driving bad but the Yukon guy should have remained calm and just drove behind OP till he had to go where he had to go.

I think if you look back over this thread you will see almost everyone has pointed out the SUV driver was wrong for the way he reacted no matter what the OP did.

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Using that as a gauge/ruler, it looks like OP started the move to the left around 1:13 , while SUV barely entered the left lane@1:14, and OP was at least 30-40 feet ahead(2+ car lengths) of SUV.

I'll leave the above posted pictures and their time marks to speak for themselves.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by CIWS

I'll leave the above posted pictures and their time marks to speak for themselves.

The video and pictures unfortunately does not clearly show when OP crossed the middle dotted line, so the pictures cannot speak for themselves whether OP or SUV has right of way.

From the video and pictures, it can be interpreted that the OP was at least close to the middle dotted line when crossing the crosswalk after intersection, but it is not 100% clear.

However, by drawing an imaginary line across the dotted middle markers, one can see that OP's car started moving to the left about the time OP's front bumper passed the second crosswalk@1:13, with SUV still way behind in the intersection.

Also, check out the stripes of the two crosswalks, which seem to align straight on that intersection. One can see that OP's car was further to the left when exiting the second crosswalk@1:13(e.g. look at the 4th stripe from the right), which implies OP was already drifting towards the left lane@1:13, while SUV was still way behind in the intersection.

The video does show SUV traveled above normal speed per PA law when it attempts to overtake OP from the left lane.

[CIWS]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

It is quite surprising posters see things so differently.

[435MSport6Speed]

This thread should win something at the Bimmerpost 2016 Award Ceremony.

Just not sure what category.