[shoptb]

"Our old 328i's base seat and steering wheel aren't as comfortable as this new car's sport-package setup, but all of its interior materials feel a full class more expensive than the new car's."

Did anyone else find this statement surprising? I can't say that I agree with this at all. My F30's interior quality feels much superior to my E92.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by shoptb

"Our old 328i's base seat and steering wheel aren't as comfortable as this new car's sport-package setup, but all of its interior materials feel a full class more expensive than the new car's."

Did anyone else find this statement surprising? I can't say that I agree with this at all. My F30's interior quality feels much superior to my E92.

Even E90 fanboys seem to praise the F30's interior.

[Kayani_1]

I do not see posters who think the F30 is the worst thing ever created. As there are far more worse cars that exist in the world. I do not see any one here claiming that either in any posts. I think most that disllike the F30 do not see it as a huge improvement that they were expecting and that is what I see in this thread as well as others.

Originally Posted by elistan

I do realize that. Do you realize the other aspect of that coin, however? That we have posters here that pretend the F30 is the worst thing BMW ever created and fail to see the virtues that are quite evident to the people who own them?

[Kayani_1]

RELAX, I do not read every single post regarding F30 unlike you who spends all day defending F30. So my bad as I did not see it. I mentioned it in response to your and few others post directed towards me and did not even know it was mentioned prior. I do not need to take credit for such trivial things. May the almighty credit that I was so starving for go to its intended receipent in post 237.

Since you did get your panties in bunch like it was end of the world let me act like you and correct you. It was NOT POST 236 but rather 237 so get your facts together.....lol....you are slipping up on your post doctorate in defending F30 .

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

YOU didn't, the person you are quoting brought it up in post 236, and I replied it was valid and brings into all the questions about variables that negates a whole bunch of this mirco-analyzing in the first place. Don't take credit for other people's thoughts lol.

[Kayani_1]

So now we should celebrate that base seats in E90 are worse then upgraded sports seats of F30.

This has to be the new low in F30's defnese

Originally Posted by dwalls90

Even E90 fanboys seem to praise the F30's interior.

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Let time take care of the F30 and in 7 years time we can have a descent conversation about F30 vs E90, when both are firmly in the history books

And why in the world would you discuss them then? Remember one of the best quotes from Huck Finn?

"... but by and by she let it out that Moses was dead for quite some time now; so then I didn't care no more about him, because I don't take stock in dead people."

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

I think Porsche has done best job at striking this balance by investing relentlessly in the 911 (core) for 50 yrs (which is basically a perfect car today) and releasing new platforms that are the top of the class in almost every comparo--and porsche also enjoys the highest margins in the industry. Across numerous industries, companies that abandon the very core values that got them there tend not to do well over time.

But you say that, and while I agree...

There are LARGE camps that say it ends with the 993 as the pinnacle and dispute what comes after as less of a car.

There are those less narrow minded who say after the 997.2, that EPS has diluted the 911 as a drivers car even if the 991 has the best EPS there is, that something was still lost.

Total parallels to the camps and discussions we see here.

Originally Posted by 300hp

Let time take care of the F30 and in 7 years time we can have a descent conversation about F30 vs E90, when both are firmly in the history books

Totally agree, I think I tried to say similar things earlier or in the other 335 PPK thread but might have muddled the message.

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

RELAX, I do not read every single post regarding F30 unlike you who spends all day defending F30. So my bad as I did not see it. I mentioned it in response to your and few others post directed towards and did not even know it was mentioned prior. I do not need to take credit for such trivial things. May the almighty credit that I was so starving for go to its intended receipent in post 237.

Since you did get your panties in bunch like it was end of the world let me act like you and correct you. It was NOT POST 236 but rather 237 so get your facts together.....lol....you are slipping up on your post doctorate in defending F30 .

Yes, yes, it was 237 and NOT 236.

That in no way undermines the point.


It comes across very holier than thou to make it out that it was you who brought something to light when it was said earlier by another.

The fact that you are picking and choosing what to read and reply in this thread takes away a bit of your ability to fairly take part in the discourse. It's less to do with my interest in replying, or it's frequency. But at least I am reading good points for or against and took the counter against my points in POST 237 and took them as a completely logical counter.

The fact that you didn't read it and I did does not make it some failing on my part-I happened to have time on my hands while waiting on meetings

[elistan]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

I do not see posters who think the F30 is the worst thing ever created. As there are far more worse cars that exist in the world. I do not see any one here claiming that either in any posts. I think most that disllike the F30 do not see it as a huge improvement that they were expecting and that is what I see in this thread as well as others.

You know what, your post prompted me to skim through this thread again. I too do not see people posting what you claim, namely that the F30 is the best thing BMW ever created. Even some of the most ardent F30 supporters, ones who get criticized for the amount of pro-F30 posts they make, admit to F30 flaws. Perhaps your purchase based bias blinders do not let you see that?

While I do see a post saying simply "F30 sucks," I don't know the posters background and assume they're trolling for fun, rather than attempting an honest commentary on the car's worth. Most people seem to have rather strong feelings about their preferences, but even so are able to admit there's at least one aspect in which their non-preferred model is better. Be that styling, engine, handling, tech, materials, etc.

(Although I have to admit, after my brief test drives of each, I didn't find anything in the E90 I preferred over the F30, which is why I purchased an F30. )

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

It's not enough.

People still want to mix and match and find a way to hate on the F30.

If the 328 gets the love, people hate it on it due to the 4 cylinder and insist the 335 is the only way to go.

But then if the 335 gets bad press for the handling-well no one wants to talk about the 328 doing better in testing and said to have the better handling because we have already dismissed the 328 for having a 4 cylinder.

Here is how I would make things happy in fantasy land and have everyone shut up.

I would have a 2.5L fully forged 6cylinder with direct injection and a twin scroll turbo. I would work with the packaging engineers to make it very compact and light weight so it sits farther back than the N55 and weights less similar to the N20.

I would leave the N20 for the 320i.

I would rename the 328 the 330. The 330 would have a rating of 265hp but you know, really make 270whp.

The 335 would not have the N55. It would have the same 2.5L, but with a factory PPI treatment like the E92 335 is, and include extra cooling, overboost function, exhaust etc and have 325hp, or about 310whp.

I would take the EPS and keep settings the same in comfort and ECO but in sport or sport+ I would dial the EPS way down to have more feedback and heft.

For handling, I would have a Sport suspension available on Xdrive cars.

I would have the Mperformance suspension standard on the MSport. If anyone found it too stiff-just recommend they order DHP with it(in my fantasy-you can have both).

I would also allow for more interior color combos so you could get say saddle leather sport seats.

How does that sound?

i'll take 2

[tuned2ride]

We just need an I6, NO turbo. A 2001 M54 would be fine.

[Kayani_1]

OK, well lets hear it from you then the flaws of F30. Since you do not wear any purchase based blinder and nor do find anyone of the posters on F30 side pretending that F30 is the best 3 series ever created.

LOL, it is more your purchase based blinders that are getting in the way of you realizing that while there are sensible F30 owners and posters. It is also pretty evident that few will defend it to no avail and not admit its flaws.

As for your purchase you do not have to justify it to me. If you like F30 for your needs then good for you. I on the other hand come away dissatisfied from the whole experience F30 offers in its current state.

Originally Posted by elistan

You know what, your post prompted me to skim through this thread again. I too do not see people posting what you claim, namely that the F30 is the best thing BMW ever created. Even some of the most ardent F30 supporters, ones who get criticized for the amount of pro-F30 posts they make, admit to F30 flaws. Perhaps your purchase based bias blinders do not let you see that?

While I do see a post saying simply "F30 sucks," I don't know the posters background and assume they're trolling for fun, rather than attempting an honest commentary on the car's worth. Most people seem to have rather strong feelings about their preferences, but even so are able to admit there's at least one aspect in which their non-preferred model is better. Be that styling, engine, handling, tech, materials, etc.

(Although I have to admit, after my brief test drives of each, I didn't find anything in the E90 I preferred over the F30, which is why I purchased an F30. )

[300hp]

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

We just need an I6, NO turbo. A 2001 M54 would be fine.

Nah we need more E30s, take it back to the good old days

[Kayani_1]

JV, is there a reading comprehension issue or do you just choose to ignore some of the things I said in prior post.

Like I said I am not planning on getting a post doctorate in defending F30 like yourself. So I do not feel the need to read every single post.

I mostly reply to posts that are directed towards me unlike your self where you feel the need to respond to every single post ever made to defend your purchase of F30 and its merits.

Do not twist it I am not picking and choosing what to reply to. I reply to mostly post that are directed towards me.


So once again PLEASE READ with comprehension.

#1. f you self corrected your self good for you as it should be the case when you have been shown that your argument was not very strong.

#2. I merely replied to your post that was in response to mine. I am not following every single post of yours to everyone and their mamma. As I do not have the same amount of free time as you nor the will or desire.

#3. This one so you get your panties out of a bunch. So since I did not read the so called post #237. My bad for thinking I was the first one to mention lap times of 2007 E92 335i. I hope now you can sleep better at night now JV.


#4. Your post doctorate level of time spending on this forum defending your F30 purchase and replying to almost all posts. Does not some how make my ability to fairly take part in replying to your posts any less. So stop pretending otherwise. My replies were strictly in response to your replies.


JV, u are one hard working man as you must be waiting for meetings day and night.

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Yes, yes, it was 237 and NOT 236.

That in no way undermines the point.


It comes across very holier than thou to make it out that it was you who brought something to light when it was said earlier by another.

The fact that you are picking and choosing what to read and reply in this thread takes away a bit of your ability to fairly take part in the discourse. It's less to do with my interest in replying, or it's frequency. But at least I am reading good points for or against and took the counter against my points in POST 237 and took them as a completely logical counter.

The fact that you didn't read it and I did does not make it some failing on my part-I happened to have time on my hands while waiting on meetings

[Kayani_1]

If gas prices were low I would say NA engines all the way even though I am really liking BMW's effort with its turbo engines. There is only a slight lag for less then few 100 rpms from idle but from there they pull strong.

I do think eventually some how electric motor in combination with turbos might be the way to go to eliminate all lag.

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

We just need an I6, NO turbo. A 2001 M54 would be fine.

[jtodd]

Ok guys, according to "Phaeron" none of us drivers are actual drivers! We only have a license to drive Damn this sucks that only professional racers are drivers

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

JV, is there a reading comprehension issue or do you just choose to ignore some of the things I said in prior post.

Like I said I am not planning on getting a post doctorate in defending F30 like yourself. So I do not feel the need to read every single post.

I mostly reply to posts that are directed towards me unlike your self where you feel the need to respond to every single post ever made to defend your purchase of F30 and its merits.

Do not twist it I am not picking and choosing what to reply to. I reply to mostly post that are directed towards me.


So once again PLEASE READ with comprehension.

#1. f you self corrected your self good for you as it should be the case when you have been shown that your argument was not very strong.

#2. I merely replied to your post that was in response to mine. I am not following every single post of yours to everyone and their mamma. As I do not have the same amount of free time as you nor the will or desire.

#3. This one so you get your panties out of a bunch. So since I did not read the so called post #237. My bad for thinking I was the first one to mention lap times of 2007 E92 335i. I hope now you can sleep better at night now JV.


#4. Your post doctorate level of time spending on this forum defending your F30 purchase and replying to almost all posts. Does not some how make my ability to fairly take part in replying to your posts any less. So stop pretending otherwise. My replies were strictly in response to your replies.


JV, u are one hard working man as you must be waiting for meetings day and night.

Much of your post just sounds silly to me. You only read things directed at you. Great. I will send an invitation for you next time when your opinion is required and speak only when you are spoken to.

As to all that other jiberish...


I am on the F30 forum...talking about the F30. It is really annoying how in E90 guys eyes it's being defensive.

It's like when a friend brings a girl to the bar the night of the big game and she starts whining that all everyone is talking about is sports.

YOU ARE IN THE F30 FORUM DISCUSSING THE F30. DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE DISCUSSION.

I am where I belong. I am discussing things where they are supposed to be and I am not making personal attacks or making this about people and not the cars.

You however, seem to be spending a lot of time defending just as much as you claim I am. Only, this is not the E90 section.

So please, skip over all the little snide comments, it is very unbecoming.

[rxander]

I gotta agree with the guy above the e90 circle jerk ---> that way.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by rxander

I gotta agree with the guy above the e90 circle jerk ---> that way.

+1



F*** I ran out of s

[KevRyd]

Ignore LeiLani, he's out to lunch. He complains how much you defend the F30 but gives no thought to his own repetitive actions. Truthfully JV, you are stooping to his level and you don't belong way down there. You, Me and everyone else who bought the F30 Know what the real story is.

Kevin

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Much of your post just sounds silly to me. You only read things directed at you. Great. I will send an invitation for you next time when your opinion is required and speak only when you are spoken to.

As to all that other jiberish...


I am on the F30 forum...talking about the F30. It is really annoying how in E90 guys eyes it's being defensive.

It's like when a friend brings a girl to the bar the night of the big game and she starts whining that all everyone is talking about is sports.

YOU ARE IN THE F30 FORUM DISCUSSING THE F30. DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE DISCUSSION.

I am where I belong. I am discussing things where they are supposed to be and I am not making personal attacks or making this about people and not the cars.

You however, seem to be spending a lot of time defending just as much as you claim I am. Only, this is not the E90 section.

So please, skip over all the little snide comments, it is very unbecoming.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by KevRyd

Ignore LeiLani, he's out to lunch. He complains how much you defend the F30 but gives no thought to his own repetitive actions. Truthfully JV, you are stooping to his level and you don't belong way down there. You, Me and everyone else who bought the F30 Know what the real story is.

Kevin

+1

I wanted to PM JV to ask him to let it go a while back. JV Kev is on the money

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

+1

I wanted to PM JV to ask him to let it go a while back. JV Kev is on the money

I am down to drop it for the sake of F30 folks who feel it's been exhausted. For the E90 haters, it was reminding me of when a bunch of spiders come out of the wood work and you try stomping on them-but they just keep on coming.

Logical and well executed discussion is welcome from both sides, excessively biased trolling is good for no one.

Everyone read enough of my posts in this thread.

Gentleman, see you on the flip side

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

OK, well lets hear it from you then the flaws of F30. Since you do not wear any purchase based blinder and nor do find anyone of the posters on F30 side pretending that F30 is the best 3 series ever created.

LOL, it is more your purchase based blinders that are getting in the way of you realizing that while there are sensible F30 owners and posters. It is also pretty evident that few will defend it to no avail and not admit its flaws.

As for your purchase you do not have to justify it to me. If you like F30 for your needs then good for you. I on the other hand come away dissatisfied from the whole experience F30 offers in its current state.

You're going to spit the dummy and say it's purchase based bias blinders, but the faults I can find with my F30 are trivial.

People rabbit on about the steering. In Comfort/Eco it is very light and easy to drive. I use it occasionally when I am transporting sick people, as it's slow and comfortable, and the lack of feel in the steering-wheel matches the wet soggy rag that the throttle feels like. I get the feeling I have to stomp the shit out of it to get the very last drop of water out before it will accelerate.

In Sport/Sport+, the steering feels great (I have DHP, and thus the variable steering). I have not pushed the car hard enough to experience "lack of feedback". Hell - I've not even managed to get the traction control to kick in other than being really stupid in the wet. 255/30 20 Pirelli P-Zero's at the back seem to grip pretty well, and I've not pushed the fronts to the limit where I could feel (or not feel as people claim) the wheels letting go.

So... faults?

The iPhone adapter being in the central glove-box is an annoying place for it to be. We have some screwed up phone system at work where if someone rings my extension, it calls my mobile. It then expects me to press 1 to answer the call, or 2 to send it to voicemail. Um. Yeah. Can't do either with the phone stashed somewhere behind my right elbow. But it's a nice excuse to ignore the calls, because I'm a grumpy bugger at the best of times, and don't want to talk to clients. That's what support is for. But really - maybe the space in front of the cup holders where the ciggy lighter is could have been better used for phones?

Not enough stuff is put in the HUD. I ran my ex-girlfriends Mum to the airport today, so I tried Eco-Pro mode given that I wasn't going to be having much fun anyway. That's cool - but those gear change hints (orders?) and driving hints need to be at eye level - I can't stare at the console while driving!

Start Button/ASS button need to be visible, not hidden behind the steering wheel. And bright red. And protected via a flip up cover like the Aventador!

This is not purchase based bias blinders. I genuinely do not miss anything at all about my E90. I will add a disclaimer to that: the E90 was a pretty good choice at the time - colour I wanted, Premium and Sports packages, and 6MT. Only thing it lacked was Navigation, which is a godsend to a foreigner. But now, I have my F30 ordered as I wanted it... Premium, Technology, Dynamic Handling and Cold Weather Packages (it gets really cold here in Texas! ). And HK stereo. So now I have built in Nav, HUD... everything I want.

Which is all toys and tech. But like I said - I miss nothing at all about the E90. In fact, I sense a hint that they're returning to the interior of the E36 which was my first BMW. The center console was angled towards the driver, creating a cockpit feeling. The E46 and E90 did away with this, with flat "world over" center consoles that worked for left or right hand drive. But I notice the F30 is slightly angled towards me again. Like it should be.

I LOVE the N55 in my F30, but that's unfair to the N52 in the E90 - you can't compare them. But honestly - it feels like 50% more torque/power, not 20%. The difference is night and day - but as I say, that's not the E90s fault.

I love the sound of my F30 - once again, unfair on the E90 as it was only a 328i. But it seemed silent to me - I always wondered. You walk down the street and hear BMWs go by with an awesome exhaust note, but mine sounded dead silent inside - I wondered if I had an imitation or something

So I guess that's it. I'd love to get out on a track and push the car to the limits, and see how the steering really feels at the point the tyres let go - other than that, I love everything about my F30. That's why I ordered it how I wanted it, and waited.

BTW - I skipped the E46 after my E36. Cockpit was no where near as good - was such a downgrade I got a Lexus instead