[FogCityM3]

It's no secret that BMW is deliberately trying to make their cars to appeal to more people (and more female drivers vs 10 yrs ago). With this increase in mass appeal, by definition a car will have to be larger/softer because that is what people want--it clearly is working for BMW in terms of increasing sales.

More performance oriented drivers, whether it be credible car mags or people who flog their cars on the track are going to have a different opinion on the new generation of BMWs vs the general public likely to use more as a point A to point B functional luxury car. In fact several euro publications as well as race car drivers are complaining about the same thing on all the BMWs, including the new generation Ms..lack of road feel, too large, not communicative, too heavy. And it is factual that in comparos, including the 3 series, BMW is losing about 40% of them, which is pretty much unheard of.. Yet, doesn't seem to matter as the cars now have greater public appeal (a-la Audi) and the company is enjoying record sales and not to mention record profitability (all this engine/platform sharing is boosting margins because of the significant cost savings, as nothing is really bespoke anymore).

The avg 40 yo mom w/ kids isn't going to care much about what C&D, Chris Harris 5th Gear or Top gear have to say (I know that's the case with my wife). In that sense, the F30 is a better car for the avg person, but doesn't mean that its the best in performance driving, especially thru the twistys, or in x-cross or track. If you haven't done so already, drive the E46 330i..in many ways that car was perfect dynamic/feel wise, feedback wise, engine wise, and size wise, even though it barely could break 6 sec to 60 and 14 in the 1/4. And surprise! Caddy just admitted that the E46 driving dynamic benchmark for the ATS, while keeping the dimensions more in line w/ the E90. Also, the new ATS-V was spotted being tested around the Nurburgring, with guess what, an E90 M3. Caddy out-BMW-ing BMW???! Imitation is the best form of flattery!

[rxander]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Good now we are getting to the basics here. I am starting to see some people come to grips with the fact that these are just opinions and people getting off some phantom high horse that the E90 3 series was somehow out of this world. It's just a car whose relevance is waning and by this time next year will be all but forgotten.

The last part is a fact trust me on this. This is a case of hanging on to a piece of thread at this stage.

FYI I actually enjoyed some of these remarks, good weekend reading and I think Jason set up that way for weekend traffic. Nice

This entire thread was a great read. Great post you hit the nail right on the head. Give it 1-2 more years and these arguments will disappear...its just human nature to hang on to a thread of relevance for an old out dated generation. Its just a cycle really. When the next gen comes the F30 crowd will replace the e90 crowd ..../popcorn

[300hp]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

It's no secret that BMW is deliberately trying to make their cars to appeal to more people (and more female drivers vs 10 yrs ago). With this increase in mass appeal, by definition a car will have to be larger/softer because that is what people want--it clearly is working for BMW in terms of increasing sales.

More performance oriented drivers, whether it be credible car mags or people who flog their cars on the track are going to have a different opinion on the new generation of BMWs vs the general public likely to use more as a point A to point B functional luxury car. In fact several euro publications as well as race car drivers are complaining about the same thing on all the BMWs, including the new generation Ms..lack of road feel, too large, not communicative, too heavy. And it is factual that in comparos, including the 3 series, BMW is losing about 40% of them, which is pretty much unheard of.. Yet, doesn't seem to matter as the cars now have greater public appeal (a-la Audi) and the company is enjoying record sales and not to mention record profitability (all this engine/platform sharing is boosting margins because of the significant cost savings, as nothing is really bespoke anymore).

The avg 40 yo mom w/ kids isn't going to care much about what C&D, Chris Harris 5th Gear or Top gear have to say (I know that's the case with my wife). In that sense, the F30 is a better car for the avg person, but doesn't mean that its the best in performance driving, especially thru the twistys, or in x-cross or track. If you haven't done so already, drive the E46 330i..in many ways that car was perfect dynamic/feel wise, feedback wise, engine wise, and size wise, even though it barely could break 6 sec to 60 and 14 in the 1/4. And surprise! Caddy just admitted that the E46 driving dynamic benchmark for the ATS, while keeping the dimensions more in line w/ the E90. Also, the new ATS-V was spotted being tested around the Nurburgring, with guess what, an E90 M3. Caddy out-BMW-ing BMW???! Imitation is the best form of flattery!

The assumption that greater sales means softening and greater appeal is flawed. It's a way of trying to take something successful and find something negative about that success. Some people call this "hating" or people who do this are known as "haters".

The question becomes did the E46 sale more than the E30. Did the E90 sell more than the E46. If the answer is yes then this sales logic is just a baseless analysis.

I can give the same example, a 80 year old woman could have bought a base e90 for 35k just because its a BMW. Lets the sales argument go, it's for teenagers.

On the topic of auto crossing, did you see the ViR results and compared then with the E9xs. Lets use facts gentleman not emotions

[r3dbimmer89]

Originally Posted by Phaeron

Uh.. no it is not. Your argument is foolish. You said the 3 series was about being a performance handling 4 door. It has ALWAYS been competing with the EVO and STI. People do not cross shop Boss 302s and M3s but the M3 was still compared and lost the comparison to essentially a 40k mustang with a solid rear axle.

The Demographic doesn't matter in the argument but the performance does. Also as of note a full loaded E90 328i and a fully loaded EVO/STI were all in the same price bracket as well since Mitsubishi and Subaru priced them to compete with the three series in a bid to grab the driver enthusiast crowd.

I personally didn't say Miatas have a connection to road, I was only refering to the previous guy's post in regards to driving a F30 as a daily and buying a Miata if you want more "feel."

And? You bought a daily driver for sportiness but again I asked to define sportiness... And i didn't get a definition at all...



How is the car not more sporty? A sports car is not defined as how it drives down a street. If that was the case the upcoming Corvette shouldn't be classed as a sports car due to the Magnaride dampers option that will ensure it will ride smoother and softer down the street then a current 3 series.

Also again what is sportiness? I will give the EVO/STI as an example of Sportiness. They are hard suspension, spartan, and all about their performance and dominating a track. Despite having more body roll then the E90 3 series and softer suspension (especially the STI) they dominated the 3 series on the track in. So interesting that some body roll and a softer suspension is Okay for them but "KILLS THE SPORTINESS OF THE F30!".

The funniest part of all of this is the the current F30 is better on the track then the E90 which should end this debate fully. I have never seen the reviews become so subjective becauase it used to be Car A beat Car B on the track which makes Car A better. Now it is getting so absurd with the whole "yeah it is really fast but the steering wheel was too light!"

I mean hell how can an Audi win a review if you apply the same standards (which the standard change by reviewer)? They have the worse EPS systems, they totally disconnect you from the road, and the driving involvement is nill.....

Out of 30 years of reading Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc...I have seen one comparo of a 3 series and a STI. It was Automobile with a 335xi, STI, and EVO. They guy said that the 3 series pretty much kept up with the rest and didn't really say anything bad about it. If there is more then scan it and send it to me... I'm not talking about what's faster around the track, I'm talking about the connection between man and machine. Yes, a Lotus has more of that connection, but a Lotus is not the perfect DD. The F30 is a good car but it does feel more rubbery and more isolated with just a drive down any given street. It feels like a RWD Audi. I feel that your whole argument is just to justify your purchase. It's ok, it's your money

[Phaeron]

Originally Posted by jtodd

Umm, they both have leather, yes. Where's all the hard plastic?

The steering is obviously assisted (power steering) on both, however the issue that I and so many others were referring to is the fact the steering has switched from hydraulic to electric.

The Hard plastic that covers the console and parts of the dash that is notorious for peeling? That hard plastic that is all over the car that was an inferior grade of plastic that with like 3-5 years begins to chip and peel. Yeah... The E90 was such a high end car....

And? Are you going to race your car? If not then what the fuck should you care? The Hydraulic steering isn't giving you any feedback because REAL Feedback is the resistance of the wheels to cornering forces as you turn generated by high speeds. Any bumps you feel in the steering wheel is noise.

The E90 steering wheel and the E90/E92 M3 did a horrible job communicating feedback. When you go into a turn at high speed you should feel as if the wheel is trying to turn against you as you are trying to turn it. That is Feedback the fact that as you are turning you feel increased resistance (not weight) is what make a good steering wheel. That feedback is telling you how much you need to turn to reach the maximum cornering potential of the car.

When you drive with power assist be it EPS or HPS you have to guess through the feel of the chassis and the grip of the wheels.

Originally Posted by jtodd

There's nothing wrong with improvements to the vehicle dynamics, but some of the fun does feel left out. And our driving habits vary, some of us do drive in a manner that we would notice a difference.

No you do not... You don't run up on a turn at 100mph and then dump to hit a turn around 50-60mph on the street. You have ZERO clue what you are supposed to feel. You never travel fast enough to feel the corning forces that your steering will feedback to you. And if you did the hydraulic power assist will blunt it to such a degree that you would not know what you felt. There is a reason the power assist on my M3 is ripped out and a manaul system is being placed in.

Originally Posted by jtodd

The F30 looks so much nicer in some ways. It is the new 3 series and definitely not a let down overall, but there will always be things the general public would have done differently.

Yeah, the general public hated the E90 for its heavy steering at low speeds, its bumpy ride for a high end luxury car, and its lack of power.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by rxander

This entire thread was a great read. Great post you hit the nail right on the head. Give it 1-2 more years and these arguments will disappear...its just human nature to hang on to a thread of relevance for an old out dated generation. Its just a cycle really. When the next gen comes the F30 crowd will replace the e90 crowd ..../popcorn

Lol, yes I will be high on the F30 come that time. I will be like my F30 is so old it's better than your new F30 LCI

[FogCityM3]

The E90 did sell more and it was softer/less communicative car vs the E46. If you ask me, I think the E46 was superior to the E90 in terms of driving dynamics.

BMW is attempting to broaden their appeal, it is a key part of their strategy and what they communicate to investors. One can make a very strong assumption that the product produced is a reflection of that strategic imperative.

Originally Posted by 300hp

.
The question becomes did the E46 sale more than the E30. Did the E90 sell more than the E46. If the answer is yes then this sales logic is just a baseless analysis.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

The E90 did sell more and it was softer/less communicative car vs the E46. If you ask me, I think the E46 was superior to the E90 in terms of driving dynamics.

BMW is attempting to broaden their appeal, it is a key part of their strategy and what they communicate to investors. One can make a very strong assumption that the product produced is a reflection of that strategic imperative.

Cool so greater sales does not imply that BMW is no longer making cars for enthusiasts right. It looks like we agree here which is good.

I was too young to afford an E46 so I will take your word for it.

[Phaeron]

Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89

Out of 30 years of reading Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc...I have seen one comparo of a 3 series and a STI. It was Automobile with a 335xi, STI, and EVO. They guy said that the 3 series pretty much kept up with the rest and didn't really say anything bad about it. If there is more then scan it and send it to me... I'm not talking about what's faster around the track, I'm talking about the connection between man and machine. Yes, a Lotus has more of that connection, but a Lotus is not the perfect DD. The F30 is a good car but it does feel more rubbery and more isolated with just a drive down any given street. It feels like a RWD Audi. I feel that your whole argument is just to justify your purchase. It's ok, it's your money

I didn't pay for my F30..... so your theory is falling apart. The only car I have ever bought with my own money was the Evo X. I was given my 328i on lease which is not paid by me but by the company I work for as long as I would trade out of the Evo. Now I am thinking of buying the car after the lease is up but at the same time I want the new corvette... 4k a month saved over 3 years I should be able to buy a Stingray LT3 with Z51 package, buy the 328i, and lease an X5 Msport.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Phaeron

I didn't pay for my F30..... so your theory is falling apart. The only car I have ever bought with my own money was the Evo X. I was given my 328i on lease which is not paid by me but by the company I work for as long as I would trade out of the Evo. Now I am thinking of buying the car after the lease is up but at the same time I want the new corvette... 4k a month saved over 3 years I should be able to buy a Stingray LT3 with Z51 package, buy the 328i, and lease an X5 Msport.

That's a sweet collection man. The new Vette is one of the best rides coming out this year.

Congrats

However my E70 X5 is better than yours

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by 300hp

The assumption that greater sales means softening and greater appeal is flawed. It's a way of trying to take something successful and find something negative about that success. Some people call this "hating" or people who do this are known as "haters".

I have a friend who hates Pink Floyd for being "pop music" because Dark Side of the Moon made it to the charts for such a long time - go figure...

[Phaeron]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Lol, yes I will be high on the F30 come that time. I will be like my F30 is so old it's better than your new F30 LCI

Not me. If I keep an old car it will be out of nostalgia and that I like the looks of it. Then again if I keep the car it doesn't stay stock.

[ASAP]

I've had an E90 and an E92. I've driven the F30 for numerous extended periods and here is my opinion.

To get this out of the way - E90>F30 (In fact, not even close)

1) Steering feel and driving dynamics in the E90 are on another level, it doesn't matter whether you put the F30 into sport or supersport (), the hydraulic steering is a totally different and considerably more connected feeling.

2) Quality of interior materials in the E90 is better, while they are older and the interior isn't nearly as modern it is very well put together and does not feel cheap like it does in the F30 (there are simply too many cheap plastics in this new generation).

3) For some reason the F30 didn't feel as solid. In the E90 I feel like I am driving a brick, here i felt as if I was a RWD civic. I don't know if this was a combination of a lighter weight or electric steering but the car just doesn't feel the same.

4) The turbo motors in the new generation are great but the N20 4 cylinder is not a smooth motor (not even close to the smoothness and feel of the older 6). Yes, the older 6 was incredibly slow but it felt different... the answer to both complaints is simply to buy the turbo 6 (where you win on both accounts). The sound of the N20 is also comparable to diesel clatter at low RPM, not impressive at all.

5) Auto Start/Stop (yes, it can be disabled... but why is this garbage even installed on this car?)

6) The 8AT tranny while quick simply has to many gears... it's completely unnecessary in a sport sedan for saving a few MPGs.

Those are my observations and I simply cannot think of a simple positive for the F30 after driving one for quite a bit. I predict that in 2 years, I will find a lightly used 335is and continue on in my E90.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

The E90 did sell more and it was softer/less communicative car vs the E46. If you ask me, I think the E46 was superior to the E90 in terms of driving dynamics.

BMW is attempting to broaden their appeal, it is a key part of their strategy and what they communicate to investors. One can make a very strong assumption that the product produced is a reflection of that strategic imperative.

Absolutely no question about this fact...

[Phaeron]

Originally Posted by 300hp

That's a sweet collection man. The new Vette is one of the best rides coming out this year.

Congrats

However my E70 X5 is better than yours

I have never been let down by the X5s. I have liked every single one of them. I am upset about onething though... I want the X5 M50D that is coming out in europe but I dont think I make enough money to buy it and ship it over here. I am by no means a rich person....

[Kayani_1]

I am on no High just merely stating facts.

Purchase based blinders often do that to folks that they pick their own car any day every day and have a hard time admitting faults.

What present

Originally Posted by 300hp

And while you are on that high, I will tell you this:

I will take my F30 335i over your 335i everytime/all the time

How is my present working out for ya

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Phaeron

I have never been let down by the X5s. I have liked every single one of them. I am upset about onething though... I want the X5 M50D that is coming out in europe but I dont think I make enough money to buy it and ship it over here. I am by no means a rich person....

Europeans who can afford these cars, X5s F30s etc must be filthy rich. Those cars are expensive in Europe. However the X50d would be great, all that torque man.

[FogCityM3]

Think this analysis is very good and I feel the same way. I will say the suspension on the F30 is more forgiving on the roads and is more comfortable on bad roads, but it is a bigger car with longer wheelbase, so even all things being equal (assuming no suspension advancements), that should be the case.

People who know about automotive engineering and making modifications will tell you there is no such thing as a free lunch..ie you want a more communicative feel, you'll have to give up some ride quality; want grippier tires, need to sacrifice tire wear; you want more torque, you'll have to give up higher revving engine; you want a turbo, you have to deal with some degree of lag; you want more HP with better fuel economy, will have to go FI.

The F30 is the latest expression of a set of tradeoffs the engineers had to make to improve the size/ride quality/overall appeal to customers and ultimately sell more units (same with the E36, 46, 90, etc). In my mind there is no question that the softer side of BMW is responsible for appealing to more people and this has come at the expense of driver feel/dynamics, not only with this latest cars but over its history over the past 25 years. Don't fault them for it, that's what people wanted them to do, and they delivered. And it is a fact that platform and engine sharing (ie no bespoke content) is responsible for the company's increased margins, but again at the cost of not having another high-reving F1 inspired engine ever again.

Originally Posted by ASAP

I've had an E90 and an E92. I've driven the F30 for numerous extended periods and here is my opinion.

To get this out of the way - E90>F30 (In fact, not even close)

1) Steering feel and driving dynamics in the E90 are on another level, it doesn't matter whether you put the F30 into sport or supersport (), the hydraulic steering is a totally different and considerably more connected feeling.

2) Quality of interior materials in the E90 is better, while they are older and the interior isn't nearly as modern it is very well put together and does not feel cheap like it does in the F30 (there are simply too many cheap plastics in this new generation).

3) For some reason the F30 didn't feel as solid. In the E90 I feel like I am driving a brick, here i felt as if I was a RWD civic. I don't know if this was a combination of a lighter weight or electric steering but the car just doesn't feel the same.

4) The turbo motors in the new generation are great but the N20 4 cylinder is not a smooth motor (not even close to the smoothness and feel of the older 6). Yes, the older 6 was incredibly slow but it felt different... the answer to both complaints is simply to buy the turbo 6 (where you win on both accounts). The sound of the N20 is also comparable to diesel clatter at low RPM, not impressive at all.

5) Auto Start/Stop (yes, it can be disabled... but why is this garbage even installed on this car?)

6) The 8AT tranny while quick simply has to many gears... it's completely unnecessary in a sport sedan for saving a few MPGs.

Those are my observations and I simply cannot think of a simple positive for the F30 after driving one for quite a bit. I predict that in 2 years, I will find a lightly used 335is and continue on in my E90.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Think this analysis is very good and I feel the same way. I will say the suspension on the F30 is more forgiving on the roads and is more comfortable on bad roads, but it is a bigger car with longer wheelbase, so even all things being equal (assuming no suspension advancements), that should be the case.

People who know about automotive engineering and making modifications will tell you there is no such thing as a free lunch..ie you want a more communicative feel, you'll have to give up some ride quality; want grippier tires, need to sacrifice tire wear; you want more torque, you'll have to give up higher revving engine; you want a turbo, you have to deal with some degree of lag; you want more HP with better fuel economy, will have to go FI.

The F30 is the latest expression of a set of tradeoffs the engineers had to make to improve the size/ride quality/overall appeal to customers and ultimately sell more units (same with the E36, 46, 90, etc). In my mind there is no question that the softer side of BMW is responsible for appealing to more people and this has come at the expense of driver feel/dynamics, not only with this latest cars but over its history over the past 25 years. Don't fault them for it, that's what people wanted them to do, and they delivered. And it is a fact that platform and engine sharing (ie no bespoke content) is responsible for the company's increased margins, but again at the cost of not having another high-reving F1 inspired engine ever again.

Guys I have an E70 X5, I have no idea where you are getting this E90 quality materials better than F30 stuff. This is just subjective staff you would like to believe. It's amusing

The N20 has been received so many awards you have to just let that one go. It's a done deal, it doesn't have to be a 6 cylinder. Get over it.

In sport mode the car will not shift to 8th and can stay in 6th so there is no issue with the 8 gears. MT also said its a great transmission so let that one go too.

At the end of the day this seems to be about feelings. We all have them, I feel like driving my brick right now

[111R]

Everyone has different needs and opinions, so for some E90's work better, while others like the features of the F30's. If someone has a different opinion, why try to convince him otherwise?

As for me, I have driven both and prefer my E90 for several reasons:

• I like the steering feel better.

• The new car seems too large for me. The kids are grown, so the back seat is only used on occasion for short trips. The new 3 seems more like a 5 in size. In my opinion, the E90 is just right in size as a DD: not too big, not too small.

• I like the uncluttered look of my interior with no I-drive/nav. I keep my cars for a long time, so I figure that both E90/F30 nav systems will soon be obsolete and expensive to fix when they break. My Elise has no nav, no power windows, no cup holders, etc., so my bare bones E90 seems plush in comparison.

• I don't like a few of the details of the new cars, such as the trunk hinges vs. the more compact arrangement the E90 has (for instance).

• I like the N55, as I didn't want to deal with the reliability issues of the N54, but wanted more power than the N52. Both E90 and F30 have the N55, so that part is a draw.

• I considered getting the last production year of the E90 a plus, as most of the bugs would have been sorted. Thus far, it's paid off, as the car has had zero issues in over two years. I took the same approach with my wife's A3 TDI, as it was one of the last 2nd gen models off of the line. Same rationale: Clean lines, simple dash, less maintenance issues.

I can see why BMW went the way they did with the F30, as most customers demand more room, more gadgets, a better ride, etc. By giving them what they want, they sell more cars. If you want more performance, buy a M version. I wanted a manual transmission and just a few options, so I had to order my car. I'm just thankful that BMW still offers a rear wheel drive manual-equipped sedan, which most manufacturers consider to be too much trouble.

I seem to remember a recent statement by BMW engineers that most of their 1 series customers didn't know if the car had front wheel drive or rear wheel drive. Therefore, they've decided to go FWD/AWD for the next generation 1 series hatch. This will allow it to compete better with the latest Audi A3, MB A Class, and others. The 2 series cars will still be RWD to cater to performance enthusiasts. Again, marketing is driving some of their thinking, as they may not be able to compete unless they conform.

My only concern for now is that someone might run into my car before a suitable replacement is available. I might go for a M2 Gran Coupe, if such a thing is offered, but it's a couple of years off.

For those of you with F30's who like your cars better than E90's, my hat's off to you. It's still a great car no matter what the pundits might say.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 111R

Everyone has different needs and opinions, so for some E90's work better, while others like the features of the F30's. If someone has a different opinion, why try to convince him otherwise?

As for me, I have driven both and prefer my E90 for several reasons:

• I like the steering feel better.

• The new car seems too large for me. The kids are grown, so the back seat is only used on occasion for short trips. The new 3 seems more like a 5 in size. In my opinion, the E90 is just right in size as a DD: not too big, not too small.

• I like the uncluttered look of my interior with no I-drive/nav. I keep my cars for a long time, so I figure that both E90/F30 nav systems will soon be obsolete and expensive to fix when they break. My Elise has no nav, no power windows, no cup holders, etc., so my bare bones E90 seems plush in comparison.

• I don't like a few of the details of the new cars, such as the trunk hinges vs. the more compact arrangement the E90 has (for instance).

• I like the N55, as I didn't want to deal with the reliability issues of the N54, but wanted more power than the N52. Both E90 and F30 have the N55, so that part is a draw.

• I considered getting the last production year of the E90 a plus, as most of the bugs would have been sorted. Thus far, it's paid off, as the car has had zero issues in over two years. I took the same approach with my wife's A3 TDI, as it was one of the last 2nd gen models off of the line. Same rationale: Clean lines, simple dash, less maintenance issues.

I can see why BMW went the way they did with the F30, as most customers demand more room, more gadgets, a better ride, etc. By giving them what they want, they sell more cars. If you want more performance, buy a M version. I wanted a manual transmission and just a few options, so I had to order my car. I'm just thankful that BMW still offers a rear wheel drive manual-equipped sedan, which most manufacturers consider to be too much trouble.

I seem to remember a recent statement by BMW engineers that most of their 1 series customers didn't know if the car had front wheel drive or rear wheel drive. Therefore, they've decided to go FWD/AWD for the next generation 1 series hatch. This will allow it to compete better with the latest Audi A3, MB A Class, and others. The 2 series cars will still be RWD to cater to performance enthusiasts. Again, marketing is driving some of their thinking, as they may not be able to compete unless they conform.

My only concern for now is that someone might run into my car before a suitable replacement is available. I might go for a M2 Gran Coupe, if such a thing is offered, but it's a couple of years off.

For those of you with F30's who like your cars better than E90's, my hat's off to you. It's still a great car no matter what the pundits might say.

Sounds fair enough to me. Quite simply, if there was no manual offered in my F30 I would have wound up with an ATS 2.0T 6mt.

I would not counter any of it.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by Phaeron

Did you not see the article where the 3 series was getting knocked because the S4 is a longer and wider?

How is the 3 series ruined? I mean if you want to go way back then the 3 series was ruined post 1990s....

I get that cars got bigger and had to do so for various reasons, mainly safety, but seriously, where does it stop? Really!Think about it! Is the next 3 going to have to be bigger again because the Audi got bigger? I could care less if the competition has more room. Like I said, get a 5 series if you need a bigger softer car. With the logic that is applied by the car companies they lose customer to their own larger models, by making the entry level so big.

The day will come when one of them, be it Audi, Mercedes, Lexus or Infinity will make their next model smaller and one of the critics will praise the them for redefining the segment and everybody will follow suite. It could be a genius marketing strategy. Take a shot at the competition for getting fat and push your own customers towards the larger 5 series if they felt like they needed a bigger car.

Oh, and for what it is worth. BMW lost a loyal customer (17 years, 6 new models). Yes, I still own one, but bought a classic.