[mikew2069]

I received some more technical info from Wagner on the difference between the two ICs which I will include here and on the first post:

To give you a bit more technical Background.

Our Performance intercooler features a Bar and Plate core and the competition Intercooler has a Tube Fin Core.

I attached a Graph, which shows the internal Pressure drop of the OEM Intercooler and both of our coolers.

Pressure Drop BMW F20 135i F30 335i Comparision WT to OEM Intercooler by mikew2069, on Flickr

We are testing these coolers at 2.5PSI Pressure Drop and see how much they flow at this Backpressure.

OEM 340 CFM
Performance 375 CFM
Competition 436 CFM

Testbench is a Superflow Probench SF-1020

IAT Results are different according the internal Pressure Restrictions.

The Performance Intercooler has around 5-10 deg. less IAT than the Competition Intercooler.

[utenigma]

Really cool they sent you that info.

So the Comp is defiantly tube fin, like you said - here's the picture I promised - continued in the next post

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Really cool they sent you that info.

So the Comp is defiantly tube fin, like you said - here's the picture I promised - continued in the next post

Cool, thanks for posting that. Call me crazy but I'm thinking about buying the Performance. I'm thinking that I'd rather have 5-10 degree lower IATs than higher flow. Plus I'd like to be able to overlay the OEM/Comp/Perf graphs....

[utenigma]

Other interesting tid-bit is the vane in the end-tank. It scoops upward to help funnel air into the upper part of the intercooler. I would assume both types have this feature.

Install notes:
I just finished installing the intercooler and ER charge pipes. I got the black coated ER charge pipe. I had the same experience you did Mike - the ER pipe would go on the stock intercooler no prob, the Wagner cooler would go on the stock pipe no problem, but the Wagner didn't want to mate up to the ER. I spent at least an hour with the two on the bench test fitting and sanding both the intercooler and the ER pipe to try to gain a little clearance. I wonder if it isn't just the black coating on the ER pipe that caused the fit problem. Do you have the black one or polished?

Also, those black clips (retainers) that hold the wire spring clamps down are a PAIN. For anybody that ventures to do this yourself, when they say "use a lot of force" to pull the clips off, they mean it. Just get your fingers back there and push with all your might until you hear a horrific plastic almost breaking sound - that's when you've got it.

The expanding rivits that are holding that cooling hose on are a royal pain to get out. If I were doing it again, go to BMW parts first and buy 3 of them - then you can just go ahead and break them off - because you're gonna break them. I had a bag of them from my e46 b/c I was always breaking those stupid things - of course they don't fit the F30... The F30 part number is 17127620959 - you could break up to 3 of them, they're like a buck a piece

Other thing that was a pain was getting the stock charge pipe out - I've got an auto, so there's the TMAP sensor poking out as well as the vacuum grommet. Wiggling that guy out was a pain. I think it probably would have been easier to remove the TMAP when the down pipe was still attached to the car. I had to put a crap load of force to get the TMAP under the serpentine belt pulling it out.

Lots of cursing went on when trying to shove the intercooler in under the bumper cover - it fits great when you get it in there. The intercooler comes with 2 studs to replace the torx screws that are holding the stock on in. They're funny studs with plastic threads on one end and a nut thread on the other. They have a super small torx head buried in the top. I found that I had to put way more torque on the stud to get it in than the torx head on top would hold (read "I stripped it out in like 2 seconds"). I used the old 2 nut trick to tighten wheel studs (take both nuts that came with it thread them both on the stud then use 2 wrenches to torque them against eachother. Then you can use a bolt driver on the top one and drive it in.) Way more effective than that stupid little torx bit.

And to reiterate Mike's point - those stupid clips on the pipes suck. I would have given my pinky finger for silicon hose and hose clamps

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by mikew2069

Cool, thanks for posting that. Call me crazy but I'm thinking about buying the Performance. I'm thinking that I'd rather have 5-10 degree lower IATs than higher flow. Plus I'd like to be able to overlay the OEM/Comp/Perf graphs....

LOL - I'd call you crazy

I think the too coolers are for two target audiences.

IMO, the performance is for drag racers and the comp is for track day people.

My reasons:
Bar/plate intercoolers have more thermal mass - they are able to lower IAT's more than tube/fin - for a short time. Because of their larger thermal mass, they also heat-soak more than tube/fin. This makes them ideal for drag racing - where you have significant time to cool the car down between runs. On a road course, I think the higher flow rate and lower thermal mass of the comp will be a benefit - at the end of a 20 min session I think the comp will end up with lower IATs.

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Other interesting tid-bit is the vane in the end-tank. It scoops upward to help funnel air into the upper part of the intercooler. I would assume both types have this feature. I didn't even think of that - good catch.

Install notes:
I just finished installing the intercooler and ER charge pipes. I got the black coated ER charge pipe. I had the same experience you did Mike - the ER pipe would go on the stock intercooler no prob, the Wagner cooler would go on the stock pipe no problem, but the Wagner didn't want to mate up to the ER. I spent at least an hour with the two on the bench test fitting and sanding both the intercooler and the ER pipe to try to gain a little clearance. I wonder if it isn't just the black coating on the ER pipe that caused the fit problem. Do you have the black one or polished? I have the black also. I guess it could be the coating.

Also, those black clips (retainers) that hold the wire spring clamps down are a PAIN. For anybody that ventures to do this yourself, when they say "use a lot of force" to pull the clips off, they mean it. Just get your fingers back there and push with all your might until you hear a horrific plastic almost breaking sound - that's when you've got it. For anyone else installing this, I would just grab with pliers if you can and rip them out since you don't have to reuse them.

The plastic retainers that are holding that cooling hose on are a royal pain to get out. If I were doing it again, go to BMW parts first and buy 3 of them - then you can just go ahead and break them off - because you're gonna break them. I had a bag of them from my e46 b/c I was always breaking those stupid things - of course they don't fit the F30... Believe it or not, these clips were one of the easiest parts of the install for me. They came right out and went right back in.

Other thing that was a pain was getting the stock charge pipe out - I've got an auto, so there's the TMAP sensor poking out as well as the vacuum grommet. Wiggling that guy out was a pain. I think it probably would have been easier to remove the TMAP when the down pipe was still attached to the car. I had to put a crap load of force to get the TMAP under the serpentine belt pulling it out. Yup, I forgot about that. It takes a lot of pulling/twisting/cursing and pulling. I think I originally left that part out b/c I was focusing on the IC install. If just installing the IC with stock CP, it would have went much smoother right?

Lots of cursing went on when trying to shove the intercooler in under the bumper cover - it fits great when you get it in there. The intercooler comes with 2 studs to replace the torx screws that are holding the stock on in. They're funny studs with plastic threads on one end and a nut thread on the other. They have a super small torx head buried in the top. I found that I had to put way more torque on the stud to get it in than the torx head on top would hold (read "I stripped it out in like 2 seconds"). I used the old 2 nut trick to tighten wheel studs (take both nuts that came with it thread them both on the stud then use 2 wrenches to torque them against eachother. Then you can use a bolt driver on the top one and drive it in.) Way more effective than that stupid little torx bit.
I just used the stock bolts!

And to reiterate Mike's point - those stupid clips on the pipes suck. I would have given my pinky finger for silicon hose and hose clamps

AGREED

[utenigma]

Other thing-there was absolutely no oil in my stock intercooler. (14600 miles with JB4 stage 2) Oil control in the N55 looks to be much better than the N54. I was considering a bms catch can but it doesn't seem necessary on the N55.

I think Terry Burger said as much on his forum as well

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Other thing-there was absolutely no oil in my stock intercooler. (14600 miles with JB4 stage 2) Oil control in the N55 looks to be much better than the N54. I was considering a bms catch can but it doesn't seem necessary on the N55.

I think Terry Burger said as much on his forum as well

Yes but there was some oil in my stock CP...

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by utenigma

LOL - I'd call you crazy

I think the too coolers are for two target audiences.

IMO, the performance is for drag racers and the comp is for track day people.

My reasons:
Bar/plate intercoolers have more thermal mass - they are able to lower IAT's more than tube/fin - for a short time. Because of their larger thermal mass, they also heat-soak more than tube/fin. This makes them ideal for drag racing - where you have significant time to cool the car down between runs. On a road course, I think the higher flow rate and lower thermal mass of the comp will be a benefit - at the end of a 20 min session I think the comp will end up with lower IATs.

Yes I am crazy, and bored. I honestly don't think it matters what I personally go with for what I use the car for. I'm just getting a little ocd about having the lowest IAT as possible. I'm never going to track this car but I might hit up a 1/4 strip at some point.... but probably not.

I think ultimately if you're going to end up using e85 or meth, the Comp is the way to go. I'm on the fence as to whether I'll introduce meth or e85. If you don't plan to go that route, I think the lowest IAT via the Performance line is the way to go. I just want to see the data!

[shivaswrath]

Looks like I would get the competition for the track days and HPDE I do. Great info !

[utenigma]

PS, for those interested - the Stock IC is also tube/fin

[inChargeOfIT]

Originally Posted by mikew2069

Ordering/Shipping/Packaging - 10

I think if doing the IC on its own, it’s a 1-1.5 hour job in your garage (if you’re familiar with the IC clips). The biggest PITA was the clips that BMW uses on the IC and pipes. Whoever invented that design seriously needs to be shot. You basically have to reach behind the clips and pull these black retainer clips down and pry them off before you can remove the actual clips. After messing with them for half an hour, I finally just went crazy and ripped them off.

I will supply the ammo.

I gave up installing my ER charge pipe after 2 hours of trying to get these clips off. Any tips? I am not replacing the IC and do not want to break the 'black retaining clips' getting them off.

I cannot even get both hands behind driver side pipe to 'push down' on the black retaining clip, and was not able to separate the passenger side with both hands (very awkward positioning). Maybe I just do not have enough grip strength?

Does the black retaining clip totally separate from the pipe? When I pull down hard the ends of the clip start to pull away (feels like they are bending), but I have no clue how they are supposed to separate or which direction to 'pry'.

Could you pry one side of the clip at a time?

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by inChargeOfIT

Could you pry one side of the clip at a time?

Yes, you can defiantly do one side at a time

Instead of explaining it, here's a video I just made. I think it makes more sense if you can see the clip on the charge-pipe out of the car

Sorry for the shaky-cam - cellphone+chargepipe+clip and only 2 hands

[mikew2069]

Nice video and good explanation.... For me, after messing with it for 30+ minutes, I went in "I don't give a F" mode and just started yanking the living shit out of it. And now that I realize they don't need to be reused, I would just grab them with some long needle nose plyers and yank the crap out of them. Just my opinion.

[ShlemonboostedM]

Installed Chargepipe in 1 hour last night without removing Intercooler .. And found out that removing charge pipe from the top is easier .. Intercooler to charge pipe clamp was little B**** to remove but got it done .. Runs Flawless don't know if i can tell the difference in performance or response ... but deff feel safer now ..

[inChargeOfIT]

Originally Posted by ShlemonboostedM

Installed Chargepipe in 1 hour last night without removing Intercooler .. And found out that removing charge pipe from the top is easier .. Intercooler to charge pipe clamp was little B**** to remove but got it done .. Runs Flawless don't know if i can tell the difference in performance or response ... but deff feel safer now ..

It looks like I could remove the pipe from the top but I was going off of the ER directions (which says to take the intercooler off). I have an 8 speed auto, so maybe there are differences? I will give it a shot though. Thanks!

[inChargeOfIT]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Yes, you can defiantly do one side at a time

Instead of explaining it, here's a video I just made. I think it makes more sense if you can see the clip on the charge-pipe out of the car

Sorry for the shaky-cam - cellphone+chargepipe+clip and only 2 hands

Thank you so much!! It's rough trying to feel around and figure things out.. gonna give it another shot now.

[inChargeOfIT]

I was able to get the retaining clips off by working one side of each clip at a time. I pushed up and down with moderate force while slightly pulling the charge pipe down. After a minute or two I finally heard the clicks and they pulled right off.

I was not able to get the charge pipe from the top and the risk of breaking something was too high (too much stuff in the way). Actually, it was a bit of a struggle getting out through the bottom.

I definitely want to replace the IC now though after seeing how small the stock one is.

Thanks again!

[inChargeOfIT]

Also, I did find some oil in my charge pipe. Enough to drip a few drops out of the bottom after I disconnected the pipe. Should I be concerned?

[Cateye]

Does the IC comes with instruction manual? Mine does not..

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by inChargeOfIT

Also, I did find some oil in my charge pipe. Enough to drip a few drops out of the bottom after I disconnected the pipe. Should I be concerned?

Good question - I'm curious if that's an issue too b/c I had several drips running down my CP...

Originally Posted by Cateye

Does the IC comes with instruction manual? Mine does not..

No but it way easy - 1) Jack up the front end of your car, 2) take off the belly pan via 22 8mm screws, 3) Unclip each pipe from each side of the IC, 4) Unscrew 2 torx screws on each side of the cooler, 5) slide/wiggle/pull the stock IC out.

On step 3, read the posts above this on how to get those clips off. That was the only PITA.

[2blu]

How hard was it getting the vacuum clip off ? Was going to install my CP but couldn't seem to get leverage to apply enough force to get the clip off.