[hollandog]

This is my experience from some snow donuts time.

Sport - power cut to rear after sensing slip
Sport+ - same as sport but let you slip more
DTC-off - put you to Comfort mode light steering and still cut power from rear wheel spin
DSC-off - holding DTC button for 5-10secs to disable. Spin in the snow how you wanted

All done with 8AT manual mode 1st gear.

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by Thisisdudewhoru

So sport plus will somewhat still try and save you if the rear starts coming around?

If you're being a monumental idiot then it will try and prevent a total wipeout but it's still very possible. My experience of Sport+ is that it's a nice middle ground and I'm glad it's offered by BMW.

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by hollandog

This is my experience from some snow donuts time.

Sport - power cut to rear after sensing slip
Sport+ - same as sport but let you slip more
DTC-off - put you to Comfort mode light steering and still cut power from rear wheel spin
DSC-off - holding DTC button for 5-10secs to disable. Spin in the snow how you wanted

All done with 8AT manual mode 1st gear.

DTC-off is the same mode the traction control goes in when you use sport+ so actual handling should be the same.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Thisisdudewhoru

So sport plus will somewhat still try and save you if the rear starts coming around?

Keywords being "will still somewhat try".

It will help, it's just not as "cautious" as other modes.
Depending on the surface/tires, your rear end might just come around.

[hollandog]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

DTC-off is the same mode the traction control goes in when you use sport+ so actual handling should be the same.

Actually no, DTC-off puts you into comfort steering and throttle response.
Where Sport+ is tight and sensitive.

By DTC-off I meant when you press that button above Sport.
DSC-off you press and hold that button for 5-10secs.

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by hollandog

Actually no, DTC-off puts you into comfort steering and throttle response.
Where Sport+ is tight and sensitive.

By DTC-off I meant when you press that button above Sport.
DSC-off you press and hold that button for 5-10secs.

Yeah, the traction control mode is the same though. Granted it will change other things, but you get the same amount of slippage.

[hollandog]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

Yeah, the traction control mode is the same though. Granted it will change other things, but you get the same amount of slippage.

Oh yeah.

[Wunsch]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Here in socal we don't get snow or ice so I don't have anything to compare to, but would imagine you would need full traction control and snow tires

No, in the snow I'd much rather have DTC's relaxed traction control. Full DSC is kind of jumpy and steps in too soon, reducing power. The end result does follow the right track fairly well, but it feels jerky and not very smooth. I'd rather have to manage a little bit of slip but keep things smooth.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

If you have sport set up so the chassis is in comfort, putting it in sport+ will make the steering heavier too. If you leave the sport set up so that chassis is sport as well as drivetrain, it won't make any difference to the steering, only the traction control as stated above.

Really? I did not know that. I'll test it later. I have DHP with a 6MT.

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

Really? I did not know that. I'll test it later. I have DHP with a 6MT.

Yes, this is true.

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I think it does, but maybe I convinced myself that it does. Wouldn't bet big money on being absolutely sure especially when it comes to steering. Throttle response to me feels a bit "better". Not as big difference as "normal to sport/sport+". (Mine is older 5 series with DHP so things might be slightly different).

True, but to OP, I would suggest to find an empty parking lot on the day roads are wet (can't be that hard in UK) and try it for yourself. Dry roads, no issues, on wet, a lot easier to lose the rear end in Sport+. This is nearly impossible to do, even on snow in other modes. You owe it to yourself to try this, it can be fun, but also terrifying how quickly rear end can snap on wet in Sport+ (especially with run flats).

Agree 100% with ^^^^

The back end of the car will readily swap ends in Sport+; especially in the wet. I've found the level of stability control intervention meaningfully less in Sport + vs. Sport/Comfort.

If you think you can lean comfortably on the electronic programs to sort out a stability mess while in Sport +, you're going to find out the hard way and be really sorry.

I've swapped ends in the wet at really slow speeds (~35 mph) in the wet. I was lucky that I didn't come into contact with anything.

.....word to the wise.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by 3liter1

Yes, this is true.

So if you have DHP, does it also firm up the dampers in Sport+ even if Sport is set to Drivetrain only?

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

Agree 100% with ^^^^

The back end of the car will readily swap ends in Sport+; especially in the wet. I've found the level of stability control intervention meaningfully less in Sport + vs. Sport/Comfort.

If you think you can lean comfortably on the electronic programs to sort out a stability mess while in Sport +, you're going to find out the hard way and be really sorry.

I've swapped ends in the wet at really slow speeds (~35 mph) in the wet. I was lucky that I didn't come into contact with anything.

.....word to the wise.

Good to know. I've heard this about Sport + stability control. Wish you could have the throttle response of sport + with full traction control. Sometimes I use sport+ just at launch and then switch to sport, but may need to use sport while in the rain, and shift with paddles.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Good to know. I've heard this about Sport + stability control. Wish you could have the throttle response of sport + with full traction control. Sometimes I use sport+ just at launch and then switch to sport, but may need to use sport while in the rain, and shift with paddles.

Surely with drivetrain checked for Sport mode, you are getting the sport throttle response?

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

Agree 100% with ^^^^

The back end of the car will readily swap ends in Sport+; especially in the wet. I've found the level of stability control intervention meaningfully less in Sport + vs. Sport/Comfort.

If you think you can lean comfortably on the electronic programs to sort out a stability mess while in Sport +, you're going to find out the hard way and be really sorry.

I've swapped ends in the wet at really slow speeds (~35 mph) in the wet. I was lucky that I didn't come into contact with anything.

.....word to the wise.

Thanks for the heads up chaps! I always found my Cayman was too well controlled in the bends and the second the rear began moving out, dtc would kick in and stop any further movement! I never had the bottle to switch it off as in the Porsche there was no sport+ mode... just sport or sport & dtc OFF!! I will try it sometime in the 340 at moderate speeds on a safe stretch of road to get a feel for it!

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Good to know. I've heard this about Sport + stability control. Wish you could have the throttle response of sport + with full traction control. Sometimes I use sport+ just at launch and then switch to sport, but may need to use sport while in the rain, and shift with paddles.

You can... leave it in 'sport' mode... same throttle mapping as sport+ but with dsc still active (as highlandpete has said above)


Seems to be a lot of confusion over what the settings actually do! I'm in a manual so 'sport' tightens up the steering & sharpens throttle response (I can't drive without these improvements) and 'sport+' simply removes some traction assistance (in auto tranny cars it changes shift settings I believe, but not being an auto man I'm not entirely sure)

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

I've swapped ends in the wet at really slow speeds (~35 mph) in the wet. I was lucky that I didn't come into contact with anything.

.....word to the wise.

Exactly why I fired several warnings about Sport+, so tempting to use every single time you get in the car, but very tricky to judge exactly how much assistance you're getting in wrong conditions. It's just about perfect on dry, I think the reason I feel/felt that Sport+ throttle response is additionally enhanced is that when there's no slippage, you have a feeling of even faster acceleration, which is probably correct too.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by nozydog

...Seems to be a lot of confusion over what the settings actually do! I'm in a manual so 'sport' tightens up the steering & sharpens throttle response (I can't drive without these improvements) and 'sport+' simply removes some traction assistance (in auto tranny cars it changes shift settings I believe, but not being an auto man I'm not entirely sure)

Absolutely, has been ever since BMW fitted the modes. Part of the problem is the model itself and/or options fitted to different examples. Like adaptive damping, and the sport auto (where not standard). Therefore the iDrive menu options are not all the same across all models. How you can configure the chassis and drivetrain, not all examples have the split options which we can check.

We still have confusion on traction control. It is here in this thread. DTC is switched ON with a short press of the button, NOT OFF. Yes we know the DSC warning comes up, but that is not telling us DTC is off, it is the accepted icon warning when full DSC is changed.

The other subtlety many don't fully appreciate, the Sport mode, (with the auto) is not the same as using the full sport gearbox function, M/S position. It is a sort of 'half way' mode to the full sport works. So as we move around the controls, the iDrive configuration, sequence of modes and shifter movement, we can get changes in gearbox function, like changing down another gear. That changes the feel and can be interpreted as extra features. Another user has a different iDrive configuration, flicks the shifter across to M/S and goes straight to the full sport function, by-passing some of the intermediate changes.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Exactly why I fired several warnings about Sport+, so tempting to use every single time you get in the car, but very tricky to judge exactly how much assistance you're getting in wrong conditions. It's just about perfect on dry, I think the reason I feel/felt that Sport+ throttle response is additionally enhanced is that when there's no slippage, you have a feeling of even faster acceleration, which is probably correct too.

I'm with you on this one. Sport+ and using DTC, requires more care and caution than driving hard in Sport mode. Can be so easy to be outwith the grip levels of the tires.

Those "nasty laws of physics", as I stated earlier. For some strange reason, they come into play, even more so in the wet.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Surely with drivetrain checked for Sport mode, you are getting the sport throttle response?

Yes I think drivetrain is always checked or you can turn it off for suspension and steering. Either way sport plus has better throttle response.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by nozydog

You can... leave it in 'sport' mode... same throttle mapping as sport+ but with dsc still active (as highlandpete has said above)


Seems to be a lot of confusion over what the settings actually do! I'm in a manual so 'sport' tightens up the steering & sharpens throttle response (I can't drive without these improvements) and 'sport+' simply removes some traction assistance (in auto tranny cars it changes shift settings I believe, but not being an auto man I'm not entirely sure)

No sport plus has still better throttle response than sport. Also higher shift points although this can actually slow you down depending on how much throttle you're applying. I sometimes launch with sport plus and then switch it off after launch as the shifting may be better in sport at part throttle. I see others saying it just dials back stability control, I don't know maybe there's some variation depending on which model you have but even folks with my car are saying that. My experience is there's a significant difference between the modes.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

I see others saying it just dials back stability control, I don't know maybe there's some variation depending on which model you have but even folks with my car are saying that. My experience is there's a significant difference between the modes.

I think that's because most of us saying that are in cars with manual, if you look at the chart in this post http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=19 you'll see there's no difference in shift points with AT, just that launch control is enabled (unless you're in manual mode of course).

I think similar to what I was saying earlier, you're just finding more "pull" with Sport+ as it puts power down "more directly", with less interference from electronics when there's grip to be found.