[crex]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I think they know what to do. When I put my car in Sport mode, the steering tightens up substantially. I suppose they could dial in whatever level of steering heft they choose. They clearly are not going for the 1% that thinks this is a problem. While most of those on this forum may believe its a problem, the members of this forum are collectively part of the 1% and not even all of them agree steering feel is a problem. I love the steering and feel of my 328i and I've been driving BMWs since 1988.

Flame away!

I was referring to the feel not the weight. And why would I flame. I am jealous you like it lol. I think that is great. I wish I did. :-) Most people probably don't care about the steering feel so why not add if you can and keep everyone happy. I just happen to fall into that 1% who likes steering feel and a manual transmission. It's a small market for sure. I guess cars for us will go the way of the dinosaurs haha.

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by LMK5

Can you mention the TSB numbers for the work you had done, especially for the steering vibration?

See this thread:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1243517

[Outlaw 06]

Based on my experience driving the F30, I agree with Car & Driver that BMW’s current customers must not care that much about steering feedback.

I'll now head off topic regarding my thoughts about BMW's current direction:

I just pulled my 2004 E46 M3 Coupe out of the garage after several months in winter storage. It’s 12 years old now, but what a BMW! It’s powerful, well-balanced, predictable and forgiving. The S54B32 will definitely go down in history as one of the best (naturally aspirated) engines the world has ever seen. The car is just a real joy to drive. Neither my turbocharged 2007 E90 335i nor my turbocharged 2013 F30 328i even come close, despite having all of the latest gizmos, electronic nannies, and forced induction engines coveted by the car-buying (leasing) masses.

For me, BMW completely jumped the shark when they stopped making naturally aspirated in-line six cylinder engines. Simply put, EVERY auto maker on the planet can produce inherently unbalanced 4-cylinder turbocharged engines outputting over 100hp per liter. Big deal. It’s also IMPOSSIBLE to find a new BMW on a dealer lot with rear wheel drive, manual transmission and sport package. However, there are plenty of M235i xDrive Coupes available for some reason??? IMO, the new forced induction M-badged cars have completely abandoned BMW's Motorsport heritage too. This all signifies the end of a great era for BMW in my humble opinion as a driver.

Last month, I went to a Ford dealership with a good friend of mine to pick up his new Mustang GT. While he was inside doing the paperwork, I walked around and saw that the dealership had at least 10 new, naturally aspirated, rear wheel drive, manual transmission Mustangs on the lot. In my opinion (based on his car’s performance), the Ford Mustang is probably more of a true driver’s car than any BMW on the market today.

I fully understand that BMW’s responsibility is to their shareholders, and that increased profitability keeps the shareholders happy. However, based on my less than satisfactory experience with my turbocharged E90, and my turbocharged F30, I realize that this will probably be my last turbocharged BMW. There are simply too many other comparable, high quality, performance cars out there to choose from now. I've learned to never say never during my lifetime, so if I somehow end up unsuccessfully expending all of my other car-buying options in the future, I may consider buying a 5 or 7 series in my old age though.

Thanks for listening.

[paul e]

What're you going to do for a performance car with four doors, manual tranny and a six cylinder of any type?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

For me, BMW completely jumped the shark when they stopped making naturally aspirated in-line six cylinder engines. Simply put, EVERY auto maker on the planet can produce inherently unbalanced 4-cylinder turbocharged engines outputting over 100hp per liter. Big deal. It’s also IMPOSSIBLE to find a new BMW on a dealer lot with rear wheel drive, manual transmission and sport package. However, there are plenty of M235i xDrive Coupes available for some reason??? IMO, the new forced induction M-badged cars have completely abandoned BMW's Motorsport heritage too. This all signifies the end of a great era for BMW in my humble opinion as a driver.

Don't forget BMW are European based and we live in a different world over here for emissions and legislation, the EU community has agreed emission values across the production mix. There are punitive penalties in the offing, if the manufacturers don't comply.

I'm sure BMW would love to be staying 'NA' for their I6 engines, but it can't really happen. We can only have the power outputs with turbo charging, which provide the reduced emissions and improved fuel consumption.

Even the auto vs. manual transmission trend is something we are taking on board over here. Traditionally we've been MT users, but with autos now giving better mpg returns, the tide has turned and many BMW models don't even come as MT over here. Even the F10 M5 is not available as MT in the UK.

I guess we are embracing BMW's current direction over here, (same as we did the 'performance' diesel), at least BMW are not risking going to the wall due to trailing behind. 3 & 4-cylinder turbo engines were inevitable, no surprise we see 3-cylinder engines being rolled out in European models.

[Outlaw 06]

Originally Posted by paul e

What're you going to do for a performance car with four doors, manual tranny and a six cylinder of any type?

That's a very good question...

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

Based on my experience driving the F30, I agree with Car & Driver that BMW’s current customers must not care that much about steering feedback.

I'll now head off topic regarding my thoughts about BMW's current direction:

I just pulled my 2004 E46 M3 Coupe out of the garage after several months in winter storage. It’s 12 years old now, but what a BMW! It’s powerful, well-balanced, predictable and forgiving. The S54B32 will definitely go down in history as one of the best (naturally aspirated) engines the world has ever seen. The car is just a real joy to drive. Neither my turbocharged 2007 E90 335i nor my turbocharged 2013 F30 328i even come close, despite having all of the latest gizmos, electronic nannies, and forced induction engines coveted by the car-buying (leasing) masses.

For me, BMW completely jumped the shark when they stopped making naturally aspirated in-line six cylinder engines. Simply put, EVERY auto maker on the planet can produce inherently unbalanced 4-cylinder turbocharged engines outputting over 100hp per liter. Big deal. It’s also IMPOSSIBLE to find a new BMW on a dealer lot with rear wheel drive, manual transmission and sport package. However, there are plenty of M235i xDrive Coupes available for some reason??? IMO, the new forced induction M-badged cars have completely abandoned BMW's Motorsport heritage too. This all signifies the end of a great era for BMW in my humble opinion as a driver.

Last month, I went to a Ford dealership with a good friend of mine to pick up his new Mustang GT. While he was inside doing the paperwork, I walked around and saw that the dealership had at least 10 new, naturally aspirated, rear wheel drive, manual transmission Mustangs on the lot. In my opinion (based on his car’s performance), the Ford Mustang is probably more of a true driver’s car than any BMW on the market today.

I fully understand that BMW’s responsibility is to their shareholders, and that increased profitability keeps the shareholders happy. However, based on my less than satisfactory experience with my turbocharged E90, and my turbocharged F30, I realize that this will probably be my last turbocharged BMW. There are simply too many other comparable, high quality, performance cars out there to choose from now. I've learned to never say never during my lifetime, so if I somehow end up unsuccessfully expending all of my other car-buying options in the future, I may consider buying a 5 or 7 series in my old age though.

Thanks for listening.

I certainly hear you.

I have been driving my E46 M3 much more recently since the weather turned and I sold my daily driver before my new car arrives.

Man is it great. I might just have to keep it forever.

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

Based on my experience driving the F30, I agree with Car & Driver that BMW’s current customers must not care that much about steering feedback.

I'll now head off topic regarding my thoughts about BMW's current direction:

I just pulled my 2004 E46 M3 Coupe out of the garage after several months in winter storage. It’s 12 years old now, but what a BMW! It’s powerful, well-balanced, predictable and forgiving. The S54B32 will definitely go down in history as one of the best (naturally aspirated) engines the world has ever seen. The car is just a real joy to drive. Neither my turbocharged 2007 E90 335i nor my turbocharged 2013 F30 328i even come close, despite having all of the latest gizmos, electronic nannies, and forced induction engines coveted by the car-buying (leasing) masses.

For me, BMW completely jumped the shark when they stopped making naturally aspirated in-line six cylinder engines. Simply put, EVERY auto maker on the planet can produce inherently unbalanced 4-cylinder turbocharged engines outputting over 100hp per liter. Big deal. It’s also IMPOSSIBLE to find a new BMW on a dealer lot with rear wheel drive, manual transmission and sport package. However, there are plenty of M235i xDrive Coupes available for some reason??? IMO, the new forced induction M-badged cars have completely abandoned BMW's Motorsport heritage too. This all signifies the end of a great era for BMW in my humble opinion as a driver.

Last month, I went to a Ford dealership with a good friend of mine to pick up his new Mustang GT. While he was inside doing the paperwork, I walked around and saw that the dealership had at least 10 new, naturally aspirated, rear wheel drive, manual transmission Mustangs on the lot. In my opinion (based on his car’s performance), the Ford Mustang is probably more of a true driver’s car than any BMW on the market today.

I fully understand that BMW’s responsibility is to their shareholders, and that increased profitability keeps the shareholders happy. However, based on my less than satisfactory experience with my turbocharged E90, and my turbocharged F30, I realize that this will probably be my last turbocharged BMW. There are simply too many other comparable, high quality, performance cars out there to choose from now. I've learned to never say never during my lifetime, so if I somehow end up unsuccessfully expending all of my other car-buying options in the future, I may consider buying a 5 or 7 series in my old age though.

Thanks for listening.

Couldn't agree more. Keep the new Porsche 991. Give me an air cooled 993 any day. No "new" porsche even comes close.

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

Couldn't agree more. Keep the new Porsche 991. Give me an air cooled 993 any day. No "new" porsche even comes close.

I may beg to differ on the "new" Porsche definition. I just bought a CPO 2009, Carrera S, 23K miles. It looks and feels brand new, inside & out. I didn't want a 991 with ESP, even though it's the best in the business, it's still electronic, don't want it. The car feels like it was carved out of a single piece of granite. The clutch, steering, manual transmission, suspension, are all connected. It reminds me of driving my motorcycle; if I glance to the right or left , the car responds. There is no play in the wheel, a real sports car. Not to mention the power and sound are intoxicating.

Turning in the 335 next month and not looking back. Not a bad car, just not my car. I understand BMW's business case, that doesn't mean I have to accept it. I have not left BMW, BMW has left me.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

Based on my experience driving the F30, I agree with Car & Driver that BMW’s current customers must not care that much about steering feedback.

I'll now head off topic regarding my thoughts about BMW's current direction:

I just pulled my 2004 E46 M3 Coupe out of the garage after several months in winter storage. It’s 12 years old now, but what a BMW! It’s powerful, well-balanced, predictable and forgiving. The S54B32 will definitely go down in history as one of the best (naturally aspirated) engines the world has ever seen. The car is just a real joy to drive. Neither my turbocharged 2007 E90 335i nor my turbocharged 2013 F30 328i even come close, despite having all of the latest gizmos, electronic nannies, and forced induction engines coveted by the car-buying (leasing) masses.

For me, BMW completely jumped the shark when they stopped making naturally aspirated in-line six cylinder engines. Simply put, EVERY auto maker on the planet can produce inherently unbalanced 4-cylinder turbocharged engines outputting over 100hp per liter. Big deal. It’s also IMPOSSIBLE to find a new BMW on a dealer lot with rear wheel drive, manual transmission and sport package. However, there are plenty of M235i xDrive Coupes available for some reason??? IMO, the new forced induction M-badged cars have completely abandoned BMW's Motorsport heritage too. This all signifies the end of a great era for BMW in my humble opinion as a driver.

Last month, I went to a Ford dealership with a good friend of mine to pick up his new Mustang GT. While he was inside doing the paperwork, I walked around and saw that the dealership had at least 10 new, naturally aspirated, rear wheel drive, manual transmission Mustangs on the lot. In my opinion (based on his car’s performance), the Ford Mustang is probably more of a true driver’s car than any BMW on the market today.

I fully understand that BMW’s responsibility is to their shareholders, and that increased profitability keeps the shareholders happy. However, based on my less than satisfactory experience with my turbocharged E90, and my turbocharged F30, I realize that this will probably be my last turbocharged BMW. There are simply too many other comparable, high quality, performance cars out there to choose from now. I've learned to never say never during my lifetime, so if I somehow end up unsuccessfully expending all of my other car-buying options in the future, I may consider buying a 5 or 7 series in my old age though.

Thanks for listening.

Many good points but good luck finding naturally aspirated engines in the future. Audi turbo and supercharges their engines, MB also uses turbo's. Even Porsche has changed from NA to turbocharged engines. You can get more power and better fuel economy from forced induction in a smaller displacement engine. No getting around CAFE standards.

As far as the Mustang, it's a different type of vehicle and most are sold with turbocharged engines not the V8.

[Outlaw 06]

Originally Posted by P-Bass

...I understand BMW's business case, that doesn't mean I have to accept it. I have not left BMW, BMW has left me.

I agree.

I’m also making an effort to keep this thread slightly on topic regarding BMW’s corporate direction.

The first BMW 3-Series Sedan that I purchased new was a 2000 E46 323i Sedan that I special ordered with Sport Package and BMW’s standard 5-speed manual transmission/rear wheel drive configuration. The car’s 2.5 liter, naturally aspirated, I6 engine “only” produced 170 horsepower, and it is still the most fun-to-drive compact sports sedan that I’ve ever driven. My 323i Sedan had very good suspension travel and chassis dynamics, oversteered just the right amount, and performed very well for a car lacking a limited-slip differential (IMO, not offering an optional LSD has been a MAJOR 3-Series drivetrain flaw ever since the introduction of the E46). That said, the E46, E36 and E30 Sedans, made so much more sense to me than my bigger, heavier, turbocharged E90 Sedan and my even bigger, softer, electronically-regulated, comfort/eco, more disengaged, turbocharged F30 Sedan (that also came with an optional special paint job, cosmetic bits and pieces and M-badges all over it in an attempt to make up for the car's numerous failings).

Regarding BMW’s current M-Cars, they don’t even get special Motorsport engines anymore, they just come with better tuned regular BMW engines (with more M-badges).

In my opinion, the BMW 3-Series in general, and the BMW Motorsport Division in particular have lost their souls to BMW’s corporate marketing department.

As “paul e” asked earlier in this thread, is there another comparable performance car available with rear wheel drive, four doors, a manual transmission and a naturally aspirated engine? I know that there are already plenty of better coupes available.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

I agree.

I’m also making an effort to keep this thread slightly on topic regarding BMW’s corporate direction.

The first BMW 3-Series Sedan that I purchased new was a 2000 E46 323i Sedan that I special ordered with Sport Package and BMW’s standard 5-speed manual transmission/rear wheel drive configuration. The car’s 2.5 liter, naturally aspirated, I6 engine “only” produced 170 horsepower, and it is still the most fun-to-drive compact sports sedan that I’ve ever driven. My 323i Sedan had very good suspension travel and chassis dynamics, oversteered just the right amount, and performed very well for a car lacking a limited-slip differential (IMO, not offering an optional LSD has been a MAJOR 3-Series drivetrain flaw ever since the introduction of the E46). That said, the E46, E36 and E30 Sedans, made so much more sense to me than my bigger, heavier, turbocharged E90 Sedan and my even bigger, softer, electronically-regulated, comfort/eco, more disengaged, turbocharged F30 Sedan (that also came with an optional special paint job, cosmetic bits and pieces and M-badges all over it in an attempt to make up for the car's numerous failings).

Regarding BMW’s current M-Cars, they don’t even get special Motorsport engines anymore, they just come with better tuned regular BMW engines (with more M-badges).

In my opinion, the BMW 3-Series in general, and the BMW Motorsport Division in particular have lost their souls to BMW’s corporate marketing department.

As “paul e” asked earlier in this thread, is there another comparable performance car available with rear wheel drive, four doors, a manual transmission and a naturally aspirated engine? I know that there are already plenty of better coupes available.

Funny, my first BMW was a 2002 325i sport. I loved that car. Seriously, if I could buy a new one today, I would. Suspension, steering, engine, Hwy MPG and overall size were great, although I liked the steering ratio on the 2000 a little better (I had one of those for a few months). I drove my '02 325i for 11 years and could never find a flaw with it. I too think LSD is really essential for a RWD car, but the car had limited power and tons of grip, so as an all purpose vehicle I never really missed it.

When I bought my 2009 135i Msport, I was really disappointed in the lack of sport in the suspension specifically. It pushed pretty bad, and the body roll and those run-flats sucked hard. And no LSD with 325 hp is a joke. I was seriously considering putting in a LSD, but figured I was throwing good money after bad, as the suspension would still be crappy, so I sold it with 17k miles on it

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

Overall a very positive review, except (big surprise) for steering feedback. Even the explanation isn't entirely surprising, though it sure as hell is disappointing:

Asked why 3-series steering is less communicative these days, two BMW chassis engineers have told us that they could match the feedback provided by electric assist with what they used to provide with hydraulic power steering, but “our customers don’t want it.” This is what happens when your primary mission is chasing volume in an attempt to beat Mercedes-Benz and Lexus for the luxury-brand sales crown year after year.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ve-test-review

This is that BS again.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I have no problem with BMW building soft tunes for the general masses in the general 3 series they want the most volume on.
But, there is NO reason why any 3/4 sport or Msport shouldn't have the PROPER tuning that BMW claims they can do.
Why not then?
What sport pkg or Msport 3/4 driver has written on a survey that they PREFER less feel in the steering or a softer ride with softer handling with more body roll?
I'll bet that has never happened with a sport pkg or Msport driver.

Those of us who choose a sport pkg 3/4 series do so because of the added sport capabilities and we know that we are giving up some ride comfort in order to get more road feel and better handling.
For the LCI there is Msport and Track Pack, which should have received the better tuning BMW claims they could have done but don't because they claim, "our customers don't want it."
Really? Which customers?
I sure as hell WANT IT!
I'm on my 4th BMW each one with sport pkg or Msport, and I don't recall ever being asked by BMW if I wanted more steering feel or a better sport suspension if I were willing to accept a lost of softer comfort.

I call BS on this crap.
These cars have way too much techno gee whizery that BMW could have and should have calibrated the steering so that when the driver selects "sport" the steering should be there. If it requires a different rack, well then develop a rack for the sport/Msport cars that enthusiasts want.
The car media/press will know what BMW is doing then if BMW explains to them that they are making softer 3/4 series for the larger customer base that says they want a softer BMW, and there will also be a sport/Msport tuned variants that will offer the best 3/4 sport sedan or coupe.
Until then, I say what that engineer said is BS and just an excuse.

I really like my 340i Msport as I like the small but noticeable improvements BMW has made. However, this is how the F30 sport/Msport should have been from day 1 not just as an LCI.
My 335i was going to be my last 3 series, but then the 340i was announced and I decided to give it a chance.
If BMW's F30 replacement doesn't offer a true "SPORT" variant that will elevate the 3/4 series above it's current soft trend, then my 340i will be the last 3 series I get. And if the 2 series starts to get the "soft sells" matra, then this could be my last BMW.
Audi has stepped up where BMW has sat on it's hands. Also, the domestic brands along with Jaguar seem to understand what BMW has forgotten.
I don't think I'll have a problem with finding something else other than a BMW 2 series or 3 series if BMW continue the hunt just for sale while forgetting the core customers who buy BMW for the sporting prowess rather than comfort abilities.

BMW's current 'sales before performance' attitude >

[Michael Schott]

It's a pipe dream to think BMW would specify a different steering rack for MSport or Sport Line vehicles. There is no business case that would support this. Also, how many MSport cars in cold weather areas are xDrive? Most. This tells you that people buy them for the visuals not the performance.

I guess there are aftermarket solutions that could help, I'm guessing stiffer bushings would help and maybe some added caster.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Also, how many MSport cars in cold weather areas are xDrive? Most. This tells you that people buy them for the visuals not the performance.

I elected xDrive for its AWD practicality (understanding that it's not as pure a driving experience as RWD), and the M-sport and track packages for the better suspension/brakes/handling. Are the blue calipers and the M-sport bumper nice? I guess, but ultimately I wanted the best of both worlds in terms of driving dynamics and year-round practicality.

Let's be fair and admit we all fall somewhere along this spectrum. If all we cared about was performance, we'd be driving Camaros or WRX's or nitrous-enhanced Supra's.

And, RPM, BMW doesn't necessarily need to ask you. As long as they're the segment sales leader (and they are), then why should marketers and product planners worry so much about what a vocal minority complain about? Just playing devil's advocate here...not that I disagree with you.

[metallicpea]

With the endless options and features on these cars, there certainly is a case to make a basic sport package available to keep the enthusiast happy. They have half a dozen choices of headlights, why cant they have 3 levels of sport. 1. Very little sport, 2. Appearance/Gadget sport and 3. Basic Functional sport?

[Outlaw 06]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

... Also, how many MSport cars in cold weather areas are xDrive? Most. This tells you that people buy them for the visuals not the performance.

This observation seems pretty accurate to me too.

Based on my experience driving BMW xDrive loaner cars (with all-season tires and automatic transmissions), the whole xDrive experience registers very low on my “fun to drive” meter compared to my rear wheel drive ZSP/ZMP cars. It really makes me wonder how many BMW owners are aware that the xDrive Sport Package is cosmetic only and that xDrive vehicles have the softest suspensions in BMW's lineup?

This brings us all the way back to the OP's first post where he quoted the two BMW chassis engineers saying “our customers don’t want communicative steering.” BMW clearly understands what matters most to the majority of their customers these days...

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

It's a pipe dream to think BMW would specify a different steering rack for MSport or Sport Line vehicles. There is no business case that would support this. Also, how many MSport cars in cold weather areas are xDrive? Most. This tells you that people buy them for the visuals not the performance.

I guess there are aftermarket solutions that could help, I'm guessing stiffer bushings would help and maybe some added caster.

I disagree that designing a proper steering rack, along with the whole proper steering system, is a "pipe dream".
In fact, BMW also thinks there is a business case in having 2 different racks for the 2/3/4 series. There is the standard rack and the VSS rack.
I think the VSS could have been the proper sport rack, but even that rack is on the soft side. Having 2 racks that are both soft is a much weaker business case, but there it is.

Most of the tuning in the electric assist steering racks is in the software.
BMW could do the 2 racks better than they have been. The VSS rack should be much better than it is. VSS has a tighter initial ratio that gets quicker once past 100 degrees of lock compared to the linear ratio standard rack.
In my 2013 335i Msport the VSS's ratio was nice and welcomed. But, it had odd power assist that changed too often, and sometimes even during a turn. The way it worked was annoying and not done well.
And, even with that rack the overall feel was still too soft and disconnected.
2 different racks, but neither gave better road feel.

BMW doesn't really need 2 different racks. They need one great rack that also has better alternate tuning. Design one proper rack, for a proper sport sedan, that has the best feel and effort for performance drivers. Then, simply add more assist to "soften" the effort that many customers seem to complain about.

The "complaints" about former BMW steering "feel" was not about actually having too much road feel, it was about the effort required to turn the wheel. Most "luxury" car buyers want the over-boosted assistance in their steering because they don't want to actually put in some effort to turn the wheel. So, with a proper designed rack that has good/great road feel, all BMW would need is to simply add more electric assist to those who can't be bothered with having to put in some effort.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

I elected xDrive for its AWD practicality (understanding that it's not as pure a driving experience as RWD), and the M-sport and track packages for the better suspension/brakes/handling. Are the blue calipers and the M-sport bumper nice? I guess, but ultimately I wanted the best of both worlds in terms of driving dynamics and year-round practicality.

Let's be fair and admit we all fall somewhere along this spectrum. If all we cared about was performance, we'd be driving Camaros or WRX's or nitrous-enhanced Supra's.

And, RPM, BMW doesn't necessarily need to ask you. As long as they're the segment sales leader (and they are), then why should marketers and product planners worry so much about what a vocal minority complain about? Just playing devil's advocate here...not that I disagree with you.

I didn't mean they needed to ask me directly.
And at my age I know better than to believe that my one voice is that important.
Still, I think I represent a BMW driver that values the performance and driving aspects of BMW over the perceived "luxury" or "status" that the brand has developed over the years.

By "me" I mean that smaller core group of drivers who have enjoyed BMW for more than just it's brand. You are, I think, part of that group.
I think our opinions have value. Why? Because I do believe that that core group is what helped BMW attain it's reputation of making "the ultimate driving machine". Yes, it's a sale slogan, but it used to have meaning, and imo that slogan had validity because of BMW drivers, like me and you and the others. We are a smaller group, but we are also a more loyal and vocal group that post on websites, and with that we affect other potential buyers views and opinions.

BMW have chosen to give validity to those fair weather fans who say they would buy a BMW if only the steering effort were lighter, and if the suspension were softer.
That engineer's comments are basically admitting that BMW knows they have softened their cars in order to appeal to buyers who don't want a better or greater connection with their cars. BMW have chosen to tune their cars to appeal to owners who want to ride in their cars rather than drive their cars. That BMW engineer is confirming what many of us have been saying for the past few years, and that is that BMW is no longer interested in building the ultimate driving machine.

BMW can appeal to a wider group of buyers. However, it seems that as they chase the "car as appliance" customer, they have forgotten about the driver who chooses BMW as a drivers car.
So, yes, I know BMW is not that interested in what I have to say.
But, I will continue to say it. And, if BMW continue to not be interested in what I want, then I will no longer be interested in BMW.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

Funny, my first BMW was a 2002 325i sport. I loved that car. Seriously, if I could buy a new one today, I would. Suspension, steering, engine, Hwy MPG and overall size were great, although I liked the steering ratio on the 2000 a little better (I had one of those for a few months). I drove my '02 325i for 11 years and could never find a flaw with it. I too think LSD is really essential for a RWD car, but the car had limited power and tons of grip, so as an all purpose vehicle I never really missed it.

When I bought my 2009 135i Msport, I was really disappointed in the lack of sport in the suspension specifically. It pushed pretty bad, and the body roll and those run-flats sucked hard. And no LSD with 325 hp is a joke. I was seriously considering putting in a LSD, but figured I was throwing good money after bad, as the suspension would still be crappy, so I sold it with 17k miles on it

LOL.
Many of us here have had an E46 and it seems unanimous that we all loved those cars.
I had a 2003 325i sport with MT and I LOVED that car.
If I could buy that 3 series again I would!
After that I got a 2006 A4 2.0T quattro sport pkg with MT and I loved that car too. Those 2 sport sedans were both great. Not a lot of power at all, but very fun to drive. I like the 325i RWD a bit more than the A4, but the A4 was a lot of fun in the winter.
I then went back to BMW with a 2009 135i MT. Great, fun sport coupe that was let down by it's bouncy suspension. But great steering and powerful engine.
It went soft after that. 2013 335i Msport, and current 2016 340i Msport.
My 340i is definitely an improvement over the 335i Msport in all the areas that matter regarding driving such as handling, steering, and brakes.

I guess what I really want next time is a 2 series sedan, an M240i sedan, or GC?

[2015M4inCT]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Audi has stepped up where BMW has sat on it's hands.

I agree with much you said but as a die-hard manual transmission guy, don't agree here. Audi is off the list now that they have official abandoned the 6MT. If BMW is smart, they will capitalize on this and offer true M-Sport suspensions on their X-drive manual models too.

Coming from an e92 335is, I'd love to take its steering but keep the 340i suspension. And to be honest, the heavier steering is what I miss - can't say the e92 had overly communicative steering. It really didn't... My old 2010 G37S had very communicative steering but too light.

Steering feel is very subjective. With these electronic racks they should make the heavier steering feel adjustable or at the very least codeable.

[Herakles]

I had a 340 loaner - xdrive no adaptive

It was a beast - my 2011 335 felt slow after getting back in it - that motor with the 8sped hits hard

It's awesome