[JoeyO]

To those that say it's not a design issue, I disagree.

I, myself as an engineer, when I design a product, I design it for 100% of my customers. I don't design a product and say for this percentage of my customers it will perform this way, and for that percentage of customers it will perform that way. My products aren't a crap shoot. Anything that adversely affects peformance in any way that was not planned is a design flaw, even it happens to a certain percentage of products. Tolerance stack ups, incompatablity analysis, failure mode analysis, and testing regimen should have brought this problem to light before production. That's why engineers do those things in the first place. If their R & D process didn't detect this problem, then perhaps they need to take a long hard look at their R & D process.

[diesel86]

Update:
Took my car in this morning to have them look hub/wheel interface based on the latest bulletin noted earlier in this thread. I know this is most likely not the issue and if it's not fixed, I will be calling BMWNA to start the whole "fix it or give me a new car" process. I had my Dad drive my car this weekend and asked him (without telling him specifically) if he noticed anything strange in the way it drove. He said "it drives great, with the exception of this steering wheel shimmy." That just further solidified the fact that I'm not imagining the issue. Also, my loaner this morning was a brand new '13 F30 Sport with 325mi on the odometer. Between the drive from the dealership to my office, there was ZERO vibration.

[Tsuvoi]

Hi everyone,

I started a survey to try to substantiate the link between the steering wheel vibration and the Dynamic Handling Package. Please take a minute and answer the survey at http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12875547

Thank you!

[nsquared]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Update:
Took my car in this morning to have them look hub/wheel interface based on the latest bulletin noted earlier in this thread. I know this is most likely not the issue and if it's not fixed, I will be calling BMWNA to start the whole "fix it or give me a new car" process. I had my Dad drive my car this weekend and asked him (without telling him specifically) if he noticed anything strange in the way it drove. He said "it drives great, with the exception of this steering wheel shimmy." That just further solidified the fact that I'm not imagining the issue. Also, my loaner this morning was a brand new '13 F30 Sport with 325mi on the odometer. Between the drive from the dealership to my office, there was ZERO vibration.

Nice, keep us posted.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

To those that say it's not a design issue, I disagree.

I, myself as an engineer.....

Anything that adversely affects peformance in any way that was not planned is a design flaw, even it happens to a certain percentage of products. Tolerance stack ups, incompatablity analysis, failure mode analysis, and testing regimen should have brought this problem to light before production. That's why engineers do those things in the first place. If their R & D process didn't detect this problem, then perhaps they need to take a long hard look at their R & D process.

I'm not sure how you can say it is a design fault. I've spent most of my career in product design and production of mechanical units. Until the cause of an issue is identified, I'd not say a problem is definitely a design fault/design issue. Design can be fine, but something else in the production/quality processes can be at fault.

Definitely there is some issue in TQM, but what it is at this stage, even BMW may not have fully identified or appraised.

Sure we don't expect something like this from BMW, what I ask, are we sure how big an issue this steering vibration really is? Also is every claim to steering vibration, the same issue? Forums are known to skew statistics.

We have the issue here in the UK where the BMW diesel engines, (M47 in particular) are putting failing swirl flaps through the engines with total write-off. No one can establish the percentage of engines that are failing. BMW say it is small, but forums make it appear as a massive problem, as if virtually every M47/57 engine is being written off over time. Companies are offering swirl flap removal on the back of the panic.

HighlandPete

[claykin]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

We have the issue here in the UK where the BMW diesel engines, (M47 in particular) are putting failing swirl flaps through the engines with total write-off. No one can establish the percentage of engines that are failing. BMW say it is small, but forums make it appear as a massive problem, as if virtually every M47/57 engine is being written off over time. Companies are offering swirl flap removal on the back of the panic.

HighlandPete

According to what I've read, the issue is with the screws that back out and fall into the cylinder/valves, thus causing damage. Supposedly BMW has a new screwless plate they are retrofitting into cars to eliminate the issue.

[Sephanite]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Here's a video I shot with my iPhone one morning. It's not that great since I was driving, but the vibration was typical of what I feel every day. Sometimes it's worse, sometimes I can barely see/feel it. I don't know if I'm particularly sensitive to it or mine is worse in intensity, but I can always feel as well as see the vibes. I noticed mine with about 400 miles on the car when the new car euphoria wore off. They road-forced the car, but nothing changed. I waited until after break in to see if anything changed, but nothing did so I have an appt scheduled for Monday morning. I know the hub/interface TSB that they just released will probably not fix it, but I just want to show that I went through the motions before I contact BMWNA.

http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/...B53B295AB3.mp4

from this video, i can determine my vibration problem is not as bad as everyone else is having

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by claykin

According to what I've read, the issue is with the screws that back out and fall into the cylinder/valves, thus causing damage. Supposedly BMW has a new screwless plate they are retrofitting into cars to eliminate the issue.

I know we digress from the main topic, but the swirl flap mode of failure is not quite that simple. First failures were usually the shaft shearing, so a redesign improved the strength, but some failures were the screws, other evidence shows the flaps themselves bent ahead of failure, indicating that carbon/coke build up was very much part of the problem. Certainly the screws became the weak link, even with other BMW revisions with rubber inserts. Even our UK humid atmosphere and lots of short trips with diesel engines (bad for sticky carbon build up) is implicated, as other car manufacturers have swirl flap issues and worse coking issues here in the UK, than in some other markets. So issues are never that simple.

I've been in engineering long enough to appreciate if there is some issue, (however small) that is likely to come back and bite us, it will, without fail.

HighlandPete

[diesel86]

Update from yesterday:
I got my car back yesterday and for now, the vibration is gone. The steering wheel still has some movement to it, but nothing more than just typical feedback from uneven pavement. There is no uniform frequency to the steering wheel oscillation like there was before. From what the SA said, they did a road force rebalance and put the tire with the highest value on the back...I think it was in the neighborhood of 23 but will have to check. The steering seems different now though...not bad, just different. Probably due to the wheels being rotated around on the car.

I have the square setup and was planning on rotating the tires every 5k miles, but maybe that's not a good idea if it causes vibration again. On my previous E36's the dealer did not recommend rotation. Wonder if that's still the case with the F30?

[claykin]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Update from yesterday:
I got my car back yesterday and for now, the vibration is gone. The steering wheel still has some movement to it, but nothing more than just typical feedback from uneven pavement. There is no uniform frequency to the steering wheel oscillation like there was before. From what the SA said, they did a road force rebalance and put the tire with the highest value on the back...I think it was in the neighborhood of 23 but will have to check. The steering seems different now though...not bad, just different. Probably due to the wheels being rotated around on the car.

I have the square setup and was planning on rotating the tires every 5k miles, but maybe that's not a good idea if it causes vibration again. On my previous E36's the dealer did not recommend rotation. Wonder if that's still the case with the F30?

If this is what it takes to resolve the vibration issues, we're all setup for future nightmares. As cars age parts wear, wheels take hits and we have to buy tires. Tire manufacturers aren't going to voluntarily replace tires because BMW didn't design these cars properly. And just wait until dealers tell owners they need to buy new wheels due to runout issues. Wheels that otherwise would be acceptable for a properly designed car.

I'm not liking this already!

[cardnation]

Originally Posted by claykin

If this is what it takes to resolve the vibration issues, we're all setup for future nightmares. As cars age parts wear, wheels take hits and we have to buy tires. Tire manufacturers aren't going to voluntarily replace tires because BMW didn't design these cars properly. And just wait until dealers tell owners they need to buy new wheels due to runout issues. Wheels that otherwise would be acceptable for a properly designed car.

I'm not liking this already!

I agree 100%.

My 2013 goes in tomorrow for the vibration issue, and I'm not going to be happy if the fix is stated to be a road force balance or similar, since this will do nothing for me, as it will be right back when I put my M5 reps back on.

[f30Indy]

I have just been told repeatedly BMW NA and my dealer that there is no fix and that it is normal functionality for my car.

[shivaswrath]

328i only issue?

[claykin]

Originally Posted by f30Indy

I have just been told repeatedly BMW NA and my dealer that there is no fix and that it is normal functionality for my car.

More like..."Normal functionality for an improperly designed car."

I bet this is the line of BS they'll use until the LCI in 2015.

Just makes you want to and on someone at BMWNA and AG.

[dc_bmw]

Originally Posted by f30Indy

I have just been told repeatedly BMW NA and my dealer that there is no fix and that it is normal functionality for my car.

My dealer confirmed the issue and the lack of real fix. Balancing my 320 did help, but not fix. Will try road balance when available here

[justinnum1]

it's a total fuck up on bmw's part. no fix, but they have been good about pleasing me. seems the answer is dynamic handling package even tho its not something i would want

[claykin]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

it's a total fuck up on bmw's part. no fix, but they have been good about pleasing me. seems the answer is dynamic handling package even tho its not something i would want

kirklander might disagree with your assessment. Or, maybe he doesn't really have DHP? His profile says US, so its indeed possible he has the package.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/poll.p...ts&pollid=6731

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by claykin

kirklander might disagree with your assessment. Or, maybe he doesn't really have DHP? His profile says US, so its indeed possible he has the package.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/poll.p...ts&pollid=6731

yea, he might have it, but i have seen over 20 people with DHP and none of them have the issue.

[kirklander]

Originally Posted by claykin

kirklander might disagree with your assessment. Or, maybe he doesn't really have DHP? His profile says US, so its indeed possible he has the package.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/poll.p...ts&pollid=6731

I have all except cold package. I also made BMWNA dealer confirm the vibration issue. Yet, they cannot fix. The dealer said nothing they could do.

[diesel86]

Two days after road force balancing and while not as bad, the vibration seems to be coming back. As others have pointed out, if this is the "fix" for my vibration, it's going to come back as the tires wear or are rotated.

[kirklander]

Good morning after supper.

[M.Suka]

I smell a class action lawsuit waiting to happen, hope my F30 does not have this issue because I did not notice anything when picking it up during European delivery.