[JK479]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

the Blizzak LM60's handle admirably for being winter tires, and can take temp's up to 45 degrees. I purchased them and installed them at Town Fair Tire for $1000, and that's 225-45-18 so you'll be fine there.

If leasing, you're still going to run cheaper to buy and use it over 4 years than building it in to the deal (BMW really rapes on those winter packages).

today was 56... Would winter tires have been dangerous or just not as good as all seasons?


I come back to a previous idea. All seasons, rwd? Can I get by being cautious and not drive on the worst days?

[bizzyqu]

Originally Posted by JK479

today was 56... Would winter tires have been dangerous or just not as good as all seasons?


I come back to a previous idea. All seasons, rwd? Can I get by being cautious and not drive on the worst days?

you are going to wear out a set of tires during the life of the lease anyway so you might as well buy winter wheels for the winter months.

[Meeni]

You do not need xdrive for winter, you need Alpin or similar tires.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by bizzyqu

You really shouldn't have summers on because of the temperature alone

Just expressing my opinion based on my experience and circumstances. Above freezing and no snow the car is just fine.

[billiebob]

Based on the awesome performance of the sottozeros on 18" that I rented for euro delivery, I'm comfortable with the choice to stay rwd. Even skiing in Quebec it will be fine as long as the snow is not deeper than the spoiler. Maybe I'll throw 100 lbs of lead ingot in the trunk if its really coming down.

The only place where I will be screwed ( and this has happened to me a lot in NYC) is getting plowed into a parking spot. Once te snow freezes into the undercarriage only 4wd is getting you out

[JK479]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Just expressing my opinion based on my experience and circumstances. Above freezing and no snow the car is just fine.

Had you gone all season, do you think you could have gotten by?

Is xdrive more for terrain that is constantly snowy. I guess I just can't figure out why bmw doesn't just drop suspension and give xdrive the same height as rwd... Maybe to cause us all to talk about this?

[300hp]

Originally Posted by JK479

Had you gone all season, do you think you could have gotten by?

Is xdrive more for terrain that is constantly snowy. I guess I just can't figure out why bmw doesn't just drop suspension and give xdrive the same height as rwd... Maybe to cause us all to talk about this?

I am probably an extremist here Nd my views are not shared by many. If You can believe me when I say my set up was fine with above freezing temps and no snow, then you have to look at your historical data for snow days and temp in the winter. The worst I have seen was 14 snow days And above freezing average temps for almost every month for a very long history of my area. If 14 days is the maximum days I can park the car, then so be it. As I said this winter it was literally 2 days.

Safe to say I am a happy camper.

[trey100]

I know the AWD vs RWD with snow tires has been beaten to death but I have to disagree with everyone saying RWD and winter tires is just as good as AWD. I've owned cars with both and AWD is superior in snowy conditions especially with traction going up hills, etc. No matter what you have you need to drive slow around turns as even winter tires have extremely low traction (remember its still snow) compared to normal summer dry driving. To me knowing that I can hit the gas and the car moves without a slip of the tires inspires confidence, especially in my hilly geographic location. Even in slushy weather, I can jab the gas from a stop and the car just goes with AWD. When I've had winter tires, travel was passable but nothing like having all 4 wheels grab under power.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by trey100

I know the AWD vs RWD with snow tires has been beaten to death but I have to disagree with everyone saying RWD and winter tires is just as good as AWD.

I haven't seen anyone say that. What is being said is that if do have winter tires, the advantage of AWD in the winter is not as significant as its disadvantage in the other three seasons.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

I haven't seen anyone say that. What is being said is that if do have winter tires, the advantage of AWD in the winter is not as significant as its disadvantage in the other three seasons.

Awd and summers in the other 3 seasons should be fun

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Awd and summers in the other 3 seasons should be fun

Again: we're not discussing absolutes. We're _comparing_.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by trey100

I know the AWD vs RWD with snow tires has been beaten to death but I have to disagree with everyone saying RWD and winter tires is just as good as AWD. I've owned cars with both and AWD is superior in snowy conditions especially with traction going up hills, etc. No matter what you have you need to drive slow around turns as even winter tires have extremely low traction (remember its still snow) compared to normal summer dry driving. To me knowing that I can hit the gas and the car moves without a slip of the tires inspires confidence, especially in my hilly geographic location. Even in slushy weather, I can jab the gas from a stop and the car just goes with AWD. When I've had winter tires, travel was passable but nothing like having all 4 wheels grab under power.

I agree this has been beaten to death, but I don't recall anyone saying RWD = AWD with both running snow tires. The question is really what situations will lead to failure with the RWD + snow tire configuration -

1) getting up steep incline at low speed;
2) plowing through any kind of drift at low speed;
3) "barreling" through snow build up (plow blocks in your driveway);
4) maybe having to rock car back+forth if left out and snowed in;
5) expecting to smoothly launch while stopped;
6) applying anything more than "moderate" throttle on unplowed roads.

These are all definite disadvantages, however only a few might be experienced in a given location/climate. None are really safety hazards, they are just annoying and require careful throttle management. The main issue with AWD/RWD/FWD on all season tires is STOPPING!!!! You can look up the numbers, but I'd guess stopping distances are on the order of double with all season tires. If you've ever experienced a situation where your car just won't stop on the snow, they you'll understand just how critical this is to safe driving.

[JohnVidale]

Originally Posted by drob23

The main issue with AWD/RWD/FWD on all season tires is STOPPING!!!!

Can't resist. The key to avoiding accidents is stopping, and the key to avoiding getting stuck is starting. AWD and RWD brake equally well. However, AWD wins hands down in starting to move and continuing to propel the car over RWD.

In snow, I find getting stuck is far more common than careening towards an accident, especially when driving prudently.

AWD for the win. Even in rain on steep hills, year round, AWD is noticeably better around my house.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by drob23

I agree this has been beaten to death, but I don't recall anyone saying RWD = AWD with both running snow tires. The question is really what situations will lead to failure with the RWD + snow tire configuration -

1) getting up steep incline at low speed;
2) plowing through any kind of drift at low speed;
3) "barreling" through snow build up (plow blocks in your driveway);
4) maybe having to rock car back+forth if left out and snowed in;
5) expecting to smoothly launch while stopped;
6) applying anything more than "moderate" throttle on unplowed roads.

These are all definite disadvantages, however only a few might be experienced in a given location/climate. None are really safety hazards, they are just annoying and require careful throttle management. The main issue with AWD/RWD/FWD on all season tires is STOPPING!!!! You can look up the numbers, but I'd guess stopping distances are on the order of double with all season tires. If you've ever experienced a situation where your car just won't stop on the snow, they you'll understand just how critical this is to safe driving.

After this winter I pretty much agree.

My steep 200+ ft driveway was no problem in 3" of snow.

I only had a problem when I slid back on my own driveway right on the crest in 4" of snow, turns out there was a layer of ice underneath and the weight of the car on ice did me in...I think 4 wheels on ice don't make things better, I think I needed studded snow tires to help me in that situation.

Basically, car was great in up to 3-4" of snow. More then that and I don't want to be in any car. But if I had to, it would be in an AWD car on snows. My wife's AWD on all seasons is pretty dang good, a notch above mine on snows(also because her car is FWD based) so adding snows to that=confidence.

[JK479]

What no one here has really addressed...

Can a 335xdrive equipped with DHP be as sporty as a RWD 335i?

I drove sportline i and xdrive back to back. BUT i failed to realize if it had the DHP package. SO was my driving in vein. I think yes.

Does anyone with a 335ixdrive or 328xdrive have DHP... did this seal the deal and let you buy an Xdrive with confidence?

The more and more I read the threads, it sounds to me like this DHP option is a MUST on any Xdrive.

And the only difference is a mere 10 mm in drive height and 150 lbs more on the car.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by JK479

What no one here has really addressed...

Can a 335xdrive equipped with DHP be as sporty as a RWD 335i?

I drove sportline i and xdrive back to back. BUT i failed to realize if it had the DHP package. SO was my driving in vein. I think yes.

Does anyone with a 335ixdrive or 328xdrive have DHP... did this seal the deal and let you buy an Xdrive with confidence?

The more and more I read the threads, it sounds to me like this DHP option is a MUST on any Xdrive.

And the only difference is a mere 10 mm in drive height and 150 lbs more on the car.

If it were my money, I would only buy an Xdrive car with DHP as it injects some sport back into it. Otherwise, the Xdrive is not a performance added compared to the RWD version. So DHP will give you the best shot, closest to best of both worlds. If you can afford it, why not? So many of the other options cost more and do not offer anything to improve performance.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by JK479

What no one here has really addressed...

Can a 335xdrive equipped with DHP be as sporty as a RWD 335i?

Prior to buying, I drove a 335i sport line with DHP, a 328 luxury, and a no-line 328 x-drive. Only the 335 sport line having DHP. I did not have the opportunity to drive them back to back, as by the time I was ready to buy and they had an x-drive, the 335 sport line was a show room only car with a bunch of accessories for display, no longer available for test drives. But what I can say is this, while the no line 328i x-drive was obviously less sporty than the 335 (slower, softer, etc), it was still far more fun to drive than most cars on the road. I now have my 335xi M sport with DHP and can say, the dynamics are absolutely there. The car handles extremely well, very little body roll, tons of power, gets up and goes on command and nice and just as smooth doing it as it is cruising.

Is there a touch more body roll than a comparable RWD set up or even RWD without DHP? I can't say for sure how noticeable it is (drive them back to back and decide that for yourself, wouldn't matter what anyone else feels anyway), but I would expect at least a slight difference. I can say it is not so big a difference as to write off the x-drive unless your BMW lives on a track...

So my short version is "yes, I think so. Or at least damn close."

[drob23]

Originally Posted by JK479

What no one here has really addressed...

Can a 335xdrive equipped with DHP be as sporty as a RWD 335i?

I drove sportline i and xdrive back to back. BUT i failed to realize if it had the DHP package. SO was my driving in vein. I think yes.

Does anyone with a 335ixdrive or 328xdrive have DHP... did this seal the deal and let you buy an Xdrive with confidence?

The more and more I read the threads, it sounds to me like this DHP option is a MUST on any Xdrive.

And the only difference is a mere 10 mm in drive height and 150 lbs more on the car.

If you read back, this was definitely discussed in this thread. The dhp package makes the dampers electronically adjustable. Setting the dampers to stiff will reduce body roll and increase road noise (not audible noise, but imperfections on the surface) felt. This isn't the same as a sport suspension which lowers the body, thus changing center of gravity, roll center, roll moment of inertia etc. Furthermore, I assume adding a sport suspension well stiffen up the chassis with larger sway bars, thus changing the ability if the chassis to corner. Maybe someone who knows more about 704 (?) Can chime in.

How much this actually mattered is up for debate, but I've understood a 1.5" drop to be more or less the maximum drop w/o something silly. 1" seems to be about the enthusiast spec for the weekend track warrior...

Edit - I do recall someone in the s4 thread confirming that all other suspension/chassis parts in the xdrive m sport were the same as base 335i according to oem parts spec. Would be interesting to look into it further.

[sean10mm]

Originally Posted by JK479

What no one here has really addressed...

Can a 335xdrive equipped with DHP be as sporty as a RWD 335i?

I drove sportline i and xdrive back to back. BUT i failed to realize if it had the DHP package. SO was my driving in vein. I think yes.

Does anyone with a 335ixdrive or 328xdrive have DHP... did this seal the deal and let you buy an Xdrive with confidence?

You mean like this?

Originally Posted by sean10mm

I test drove a RWD 6MT M Sport, an xDrive luxury line AT and bought a xDrive with DHP and 6MT. Here's my take on it in real-world driving:

xDrive + DHP in sport/sport+ is much better than xDrive w/o DHP and feels similar to the RWD M Sport suspension. The car corners EXTREMELY flat. The ride in comfort is also better, of course. In bad conditions on equal tires AWD crushes RWD, and anybody saying otherwise probably doesn't know what "bad conditions" actually are. I went right from a RWD car to this one and the difference is hilariously obvious. Of course driving in the snow on bald summer tires is A Bad Idea in RWD or AWD.

I'm not going to say that xDrive + DHP is for everybody, but it's pretty clear that the people bashing this combination never actually drove it.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by drob23

If you read back, this was definitely discussed in this thread. The dhp package makes the dampers electronically adjustable. Setting the dampers to stiff will reduce body roll and increase road noise (not audible noise, but imperfections on the surface) felt. This isn't the same as a sport suspension which lowers the body, thus changing center of gravity, roll center, roll moment of inertia etc. Furthermore, I assume adding a sport suspension well stiffen up the chassis with larger sway bars, thus changing the ability if the chassis to corner. Maybe someone who knows more about 704 (?) Can chime in.

How much this actually mattered is up for debate, but I've understood a 1.5" drop to be more or less the maximum drop w/o something silly. 1" seems to be about the enthusiast spec for the weekend track warrior...

Edit - I do recall someone in the s4 thread confirming that all other suspension/chassis parts in the xdrive m sport were the same as base 335i according to oem parts spec. Would be interesting to look into it further.

From research... the xdrive does get the drop on the Sportline Xdrive. Adaptive drive gives you "back" the sport pack... SO BMW listenened...

[walile]

Originally Posted by JK479

From research... the xdrive does get the drop on the Sportline Xdrive. Adaptive drive gives you "back" the sport pack... SO BMW listenened...

I remember reading somewhere that xDrive sits 1cm higher than RWD when both are equipped with M adaptive suspension with the M Sport.

One critical consideration in deciding between AWD and RWD is the lack of LSD with the RWD cars. For me, AWD with the extra traction is actually the sportier of the two.

Also keep in mind that while some all season tires have gotten pretty good these days even in snow, the all season run flats that came with the car is probably not the best all season for snowy conditions.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by JK479

From research... the xdrive does get the drop on the Sportline Xdrive. Adaptive drive gives you "back" the sport pack... SO BMW listenened...

No, it doesn't... Sits 10mm higher than sport suspension. Adaptive gives you the active and adjustable dampers though, and still handles very well.

check here
http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/63948...r-ride-height/