[swanson]

When you add the options to really compare them, the 335 is much more expensive then the ATS.

[mapleridge]

I love the styling of the ats. It sounds promising on all points. Along with that and the cts, I am seriously considering this as a future car.

I don't know if the aftermarket performance community is big like the bmw one. Thats one thing I love about the bimmer crowd.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by geko29

What recent Ford and GM models have inline 6's? The last American I-6 I was aware of was the Jeep 4.0L, which was designed by AMC in 1964, and last used in the 2001 Cherokee, 2004 Grand Cherokee, and 2006 Wrangler. Chevy's last one went away in 1984, Ford's in 1980. This is EONS ago, and completely irrelevant to a discussion about the F30 and ATS.

None, I was using these engines as examples that the big three can do quality---and let's face it, BMW at that time wasn't the "Ultimate Driving Machine", in fact Alfa Romeo was the "BMW" at the time.

Regardless of EONS ago, it's still relevants, as people continually count out the Big three, and it's funny, or it maybe that it runs deeper than most may think, I suspect it's a running trend in our culture to "hate" being a American, hate what America produces, but love the benefits of being an American.

Quite true, that American companies had to claw their way up, as one Former automotive Exec who worked at Ford with Iacocca, and then went to Chrysler and was responsible for the minivan,, put it, this (America) is the only place where the Finance guys basically run the show. They were trying to make money by not spending money.
Now imagine if there was balance? Imagine the cars that would have come out of GM, or Ford? How about a Mustang with IRS that could take on the M3, without a Boss 302 Laguna Seca Package.

That's what I'm getting at.

[gator15]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Regardless of EONS ago, it's still relevants, as people continually count out the Big three, and it's funny, or it maybe that it runs deeper than most may think, I suspect it's a running trend in our culture to "hate" being a American, hate what America produces, but love the benefits of being an American.

I wouldn't go that far. I am happy to see that GM is producing a quality competitor to German cars, as the competition makes every car better. Remember that we are on a BMW enthusiast board and of course Cadillac will be viewed with skepticism. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and frankly, the poor reputation of American car companies is solely due to their past performance. There is a reason why BMW can produce a car in Germany and sell it around the world, while Cadillac's market is, for the most part, solely in the United States. Cadillac is an American car company, while BMW/Audi/MB are global car companies. Now, that may be changing and I am proud that American companies like GM are now on the forefront of technology and innovation, but they still have a long way to go. Just look at global sales figures.

For the various reasons that others have mentioned in this thread, I wouldn't consider purchasing a Cadillac at this time. That does not mean I hate American products, it is my perception, right or wrong, that the Germans and Japanese make better cars than we do in the United States. Cadillac and GM as a whole, must prove to me that they have changed before I would consider purchasing one. I have a 2012 Chevy Volt in my garage right now and it is pretty awful. We have already decided to get rid of in favor of another BMW or Porsche. What makes it awful is the lack of focus on the driver, something that the Germans would never overlook. It doesn't mean I hate America because I don't like the car, it simply means I don't like the car. The great thing about capitalism is we have choices and because someone purchases a car that isn't made by an American company doesn't mean that they hate the United States.

[shabadoo25]

Originally Posted by mapleridge

I love the styling of the ats. It sounds promising on all points. Along with that and the cts, I am seriously considering this as a future car.

I don't know if the aftermarket performance community is big like the bmw one. Thats one thing I love about the bimmer crowd.

It's nice to see the minority viewpoint represented.

[adamsclubs]

Originally Posted by gator15

I wouldn't go that far. I am happy to see that GM is producing a quality competitor to German cars, as the competition makes every car better. Remember that we are on a BMW enthusiast board and of course Cadillac will be viewed with skepticism. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and frankly, the poor reputation of American car companies is solely due to their past performance. There is a reason why BMW can produce a car in Germany and sell it around the world, while Cadillac's market is, for the most part, solely in the United States. Cadillac is an American car company, while BMW/Audi/MB are global car companies. Now, that may be changing and I am proud that American companies like GM are now on the forefront of technology and innovation, but they still have a long way to go. Just look at global sales figures.

For the various reasons that others have mentioned in this thread, I wouldn't consider purchasing a Cadillac at this time. That does not mean I hate American products, it is my perception, right or wrong, that the Germans and Japanese make better cars than we do in the United States. Cadillac and GM as a whole, must prove to me that they have changed before I would consider purchasing one. I have a 2012 Chevy Volt in my garage right now and it is pretty awful. We have already decided to get rid of in favor of another BMW or Porsche. What makes it awful is the lack of focus on the driver, something that the Germans would never overlook. It doesn't mean I hate America because I don't like the car, it simply means I don't like the car. The great thing about capitalism is we have choices and because someone purchases a car that isn't made by an American company doesn't mean that they hate the United States.

Volt is not designed to be a driver's car. You should have bought a Cruze Eco 5 speed manual. But even so, to compare those cars to 3 or ATS is ridiculous. Give the ATS a try before making any judgment.

[gator15]

Originally Posted by adamsclubs

Volt is not designed to be a driver's car. You should have bought a Cruze Eco 5 speed manual. But even so, to compare those cars to 3 or ATS is ridiculous. Give the ATS a try before making any judgment.

I didn't mean to compare the Volt to the F30 or the ATS. Of course, the Volt is a totally different car than these two and I would never expect the Volt's performance to match them. I was just using the Volt as an example of the fact that I didn't "hate American products" just because I prefer German cars to American ones and in fact I have an American car in my garage.

That being said, I am disappointed with GM's execution of the Volt. Like I have said before, the way the car actually drives is amazing and the electric to gas switchover is really remarkable. My spouse gets about 130mpg and doesn't really use gas ever. However, the nav/audio/climate control system is abysmal and frankly, it doesn't look like the ATS has that different of a system. Hopefully, GM will work these bugs out and adopt a non-touch screen interface, which I believe are much more driver-friendly.

[adamsclubs]

Based on all the reviews so far, one of the stronge points of the ATS is the touchless voice command feature. I think they are fully aware many potential ATS buyers are not iPad generation.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by swanson

When you add the options to really compare them, the 335 is much more expensive then the ATS.

That's one of the Cadillac's strong point and advantages over the BMW...
and that's why the ATS will take a few BMW customers...

Originally Posted by mapleridge

I love the styling of the ats. It sounds promising on all points. Along with that and the cts, I am seriously considering this as a future car.

I don't know if the aftermarket performance community is big like the bmw one. Thats one thing I love about the bimmer crowd.

If the car is good, then there will be aftermarket products,
if it's just another vanilla appliance, then you will be more limited...

but no doubt the ATS will make the 3 series run for its money...

i can't wait to see a proper comparo... not just an "amuse-bouche"

[batislav]

Sometimes this sounds like a GM forum.

Too many factors are involved in customers choosing cars en masse to decide a car that none of us has driven is going to move significant numbers of customers from one brand to another.

BMW and Mercedes are consistently at the top of European brand loyalty-- retaining over half of their customers. The ATS could interest the 30-40 percent of customers who move away from BMW anyway. Some people might also think "why buy the imitator when I can have the real thing."

The more good cars to choose from the better, but for all any of us know the ATS will take customers from the Buick Regal "Sport Sedan" more than the f30.

Nothing that has been said is going to motivate me to buy or sell any stocks. Best to wait and see how things develop.

[scskysc]

Originally Posted by mapleridge

I love the styling of the ats. It sounds promising on all points. Along with that and the cts, I am seriously considering this as a future car.

I don't know if the aftermarket performance community is big like the bmw one. Thats one thing I love about the bimmer crowd.

Um.. there are about 5 years of serious performance on the GM engine (LNF) including ECU Tuning and a whole world of aftermarket parts for the SKY Redline and Solsitce GXP.
While there have been a few updates made to this latest iteration of the 2.0T ECOTEC (LHU) a $500 tune puts this engine well north of 300 HP/TQ to the wheels.

Performance is already there and with Justin Berber signed on .. Cadillac is obviously looking directly at the 328i buyers and saying .. "if I was your boyfriend.."
^^^
oh 3 posts in and I make the lamest comment ever.

But seriously.. Being a lifetime Saturn owner and feeling like Obama and GM sent us out to pasture I shifted my sights toward BMW. However after seeing what the ATS has to offer in powertrain and performance options I was very excited about it. On the same note the 2013 Buick Verano T is another viable candidate, but really the 65+ age bracket car.

Before my wife decided on the 328i we looked at and drove most of the GM "comparable" vehicles and as stated above interior was by and far the biggest contributor to our decision.
The sad truth is that we were literally down to the Cruze or 328i and picked the 328i for the larger and equally efficient engine. (I also think partly because my wife knows I currently can't tune the ECU) If we had the available time to wait we would have considered the ATS and 328i as our two candidates. I would have hopefully convinced my wife to buy the ATS in favor of being able to tune the engine and trans with EFILive, but since this is her car we got what she wanted.
I'm VERY happy with the 328i and now really hate the interior of my SKY even more than before. Lucky for me the SKY is much faster so I can accept that as consolation prize for driving it over the 328i.

[JoeyO]

Every new model that Cadillac comes out with says it will beat the BMW (name your model here). It never does.

This has been going on since they came out with the Cimeron. Remember the Cadillac with zag? Yea, only a few people do.

The ATS will be a failure. Mark my words. Save this post. It's the one thing you can count on with GM in it's global positioning. It's like the little boy that cried wolf. After a while you become deaf to him and tell him to "go blow it out your arse, now move outta my way grandpa."

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Every new model that Cadillac comes out with says it will beat the BMW (name your model here). It never does.

This has been going on since they came out with the Cimeron. Remember the Cadillac with zag? Yea, only a few people do.

The ATS will be a failure. Mark my words. Save this post. It's the one thing you can count on with GM in it's global positioning. It's like the little boy that cried wolf. After a while you become deaf to him and tell him to "go blow it out your arse, now move outta my way grandpa."

Well in fairness pretty much every new model that anyone comes out is compared to BMW (within reason). Even Hyundai did back in the 80's.

But personally I could never buy a Cadillac, or really 99% of the cars GM makes. I know that isn't fair to the engineers today, but they just made such shit when I was growing up that it ruined the brand for me. The same goes for Chrysler (Dart being an exception as it is actually an Alfa). Ford had a few okay cars in my early years so I don't have a very bad view of them.

[shoptb]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Every new model that Cadillac comes out with says it will beat the BMW (name your model here). It never does.

I have to admit; if I were the marketing department at GM for the Cadillac Brand, I think I'd be a little less boastful about the ATS's potential for "dethroning the 3 Series" and just let the car win that praise based upon its own performance. Let the auto magazines and drivers do that instead of declaring it "from on high" in Detroit before it has ever had a chance to get out of the gate. Sadly, too many people DO remember the Cimarron (and other previous bad GM jokes)...such much so that when they make claims such as this, we just ignore it like the boy that cried wolf.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Every new model that Cadillac comes out with says it will beat the BMW (name your model here). It never does.

This has been going on since they came out with the Cimeron. Remember the Cadillac with zag? Yea, only a few people do.

The ATS will be a failure. Mark my words. Save this post. It's the one thing you can count on with GM in it's global positioning. It's like the little boy that cried wolf. After a while you become deaf to him and tell him to "go blow it out your arse, now move outta my way grandpa."

CTS-V and new ATS will too

[batislav]

Originally Posted by swanson

CTS-V and new ATS will too

CTS-V sells around 3000 a year in the US (give or take 500 either way)--less than 4% of the annual US sales of the 3 series. Only magazines evaluate car companies based on limited production models.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by batislav

CTS-V sells around 3000 a year in the US (give or take 500 either way)--less than 4% of the annual US sales of the 3 series. Only magazines evaluate car companies based on limited production models.

But you said EVERY, so.......

[batislav]

Originally Posted by swanson

But you said EVERY, so.......

I didn't say every.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by batislav

I didn't say every.

oops. I thought you were the the guy I initially quoted. sorry.

[FotiosF90M5]

As good as the ats will most likely be the styling will never ever make me want to trade in a BMW for it. There is just something about BMW that no other car I've driven can quite grasp. Thats why the f30 is in my garage instead of an s4. For me there is just no other. It's just the aura the whole package gives. BMW gets it and the 3 series has always been just right.

[Walt]

Whereas we get $2000 Dinan chips and e90 owners struggle to get 400whp out of an n55:

http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/cadillac-ctsv.html

Make sure you watch the video of the wagon beating the 911.

I know this isn't exactly comparing apples to apples, but if the ats gets this sort of aftermarket attention, it could really pull the younger performance oriented crowd towards the ATS.

I ordered my 335i m-sport without looking at a single other car, or remotely considering the Caddy. But the argument that Caddys are for old people who don't race does not apply to the ctsv. We will have to wait to see the fate of the ATSV.

The thing is, the 3 series is very special. I would argue the CTSV is a good alternative to an m3 or m5, and the CTS could definitely draw 5 series buyers. But it would not draw 3 series buyers. Like someone said, we don't buy the 3 series because we can't afford the 5 series.

The ATSV will probably be successful competing with the 335i or maybe m3, but convincing people that the standard car is worth looking at will be much harder.
Considering it pulled .93G on the skid pad, the ride will be way to stiff for the geriatrics, so they had better sell it to car enthusiasts or they won't sell anything.

[King335i]

I'm glad to see so many mature, positive comments on here. Perhaps E90post has grown up a bit. To those who say they won't even look at the vehicle because it's American made, your insecurities get the best of you, and us adults have a laugh about it, at your expense of course