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      10-04-2017, 03:01 PM   #1
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335i at Lime Rock

I haven't seen much action here in the F30 track forum in a while, so I thought I'd share a few laps from a BMW CCA HPDE at Lime Rock on 9/23.

My best lap was 1:04.79, which I'm happy with - but of course there are a few areas to shave off some time now that I've got a feel for the track (this was my first time there). Getting the most out of the uphill (#5) and the downhill (#7) takes some serious commitment, so I certainly left some speed on the table on both... but overall, the 335 was quicker than most of the other cars in the advanced run group, including a Dinan M2, a couple M4s and a few 911s. (A wicked new Camaro ZL1 1LE ruled the day... my quickest laps were chasing him as he was turning times a second or two quicker than me.)

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      10-04-2017, 07:45 PM   #2
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I haven't seen much action here in the F30 track forum in a while, so I thought I'd share a few laps from a BMW CCA HPDE at Lime Rock on 9/23.

My best lap was 1:04.79, which I'm happy with - but of course there are a few areas to shave off some time now that I've got a feel for the track (this was my first time there). Getting the most out of the uphill (#5) and the downhill (#7) takes some serious commitment, so I certainly left some speed on the table on both... but overall, the 335 was quicker than most of the other cars in the advanced run group, including a Dinan M2, a couple M4s and a few 911s. (A wicked new Camaro ZL1 1LE ruled the day... my quickest laps were chasing him as he was turning times a second or two quicker than me.)

Great post and video. What mods are you running nowadays?
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      10-04-2017, 11:47 PM   #3
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Great post and video. What mods are you running nowadays?
Thanks! I'm running mostly chassis mods.... Ohlins R&T coils, H&R sway bars, M front LCAs and tension struts, Megan Racing rear arms, and Vorshlag camber plates. Plus the M Performance LSD, solid subframe bushings, and Apex 18x9.5" wheels with 265/35 RE-71R tires. And the soundtrack was thanks to a CG Precision race cat down pipe and exhaust.

Honestly, the car feels really, really good on track at this point.
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      10-05-2017, 08:15 AM   #4
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Thanks! I'm running mostly chassis mods.... Ohlins R&T coils, H&R sway bars, M front LCAs and tension struts, Megan Racing rear arms, and Vorshlag camber plates. Plus the M Performance LSD, solid subframe bushings, and Apex 18x9.5" wheels with 265/35 RE-71R tires. And the soundtrack was thanks to a CG Precision race cat down pipe and exhaust.

Honestly, the car feels really, really good on track at this point.
I'm currently running the following (and completely stock powertrain):

- M Performance Suspension Kit
- F8X M3/M4 brake pads in my M Sport Brake Option
- M Performance LSD
- APEX ARC-8 18x8.5 255/40/18 square setup
- Michelin PSS

I suspected you had a bit more than me, especially with the RE-71R tires.

What are your thoughts on powertrain mods? I'm skeptical about long term reliability on significant powertrain mods when we're dealing with the use case of HPDEs.
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      10-06-2017, 10:19 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I'm currently running the following (and completely stock powertrain):

- M Performance Suspension Kit
- F8X M3/M4 brake pads in my M Sport Brake Option
- M Performance LSD
- APEX ARC-8 18x8.5 255/40/18 square setup
- Michelin PSS

I suspected you had a bit more than me, especially with the RE-71R tires.

What are your thoughts on powertrain mods? I'm skeptical about long term reliability on significant powertrain mods when we're dealing with the use case of HPDEs.

Those are great mods - I think you're doing it right. The next thing you might consider is a down pipe, as they add some nice power and noise without any reliability concerns. Also a charge pipe is good for peace of mind... my OEM charge pipe failed at Summit Point this summer, which really put a damper on things.

There are certainly cars that pull away from me on the straights, so adding a tune would be the next step... but I think I'm actually done modding the car (I actually never thought I'd say that!!)

If I were to do a tune, I'd go with one of the reputable flash tuners in my area that use a dyno to dial things in. The goal for me would be a marginal increase in boost (nothing crazy), but with a focus on having instant throttle response, combined with linear throttle mapping and a HP/torque curve that doesn't fall off all the way up to redline... hopefully adding a little more headroom at the top end. I would also do a Wagner Competition FMIC to make sure the increased boost didn't get things too hot.

But at this point I feel like the car already has plenty of power, and I'm more interested in enjoying the copious mechanical grip that I'm getting with all the chassis tuning I've done. (And by the way, for a car with no rubber anywhere in the suspension - all poly, heim joints, mono balls and spherical bearings - the ride is still very well composed on the street.)
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      10-06-2017, 10:29 AM   #6
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Nice laps man, 1:04 is very respectable. Bimmerworld qualified their N20 328's this year there in the mid 59's and that's on full race kit...

Next season I'll be looking to do some HDPE at LRP. What mods would you say improved your on track performance most? I'm contemplating some Ohlins R&T for my car along with, M3 LCA and TS, and 255 RE-71Rs.
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      10-06-2017, 10:52 AM   #7
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Nice laps man, 1:04 is very respectable. Bimmerworld qualified their N20 328's this year there in the mid 59's and that's on full race kit...

Next season I'll be looking to do some HDPE at LRP. What mods would you say improved your on track performance most? I'm contemplating some Ohlins R&T for my car along with, M3 LCA and TS, and 255 RE-71Rs.
Thanks! Are you new to HPDE in general, or just LRP? If new to HPDE, then you'll likely be good to go with a stock 328i... although track brake pads and fluid are always a good idea (I like Castrol SRF fluid and PFC08 pads).

Beyond that, if you want to consider some mods in advance, I'd start with a set of square wheels and tires (e.g. Apex ARC-8s in 18x9 ET42 with a good Max performance street tire in 255 or 245 width). From there, an LSD is probably where I'd go next.

After that comes the slippery slope of camber plates, coil overs, sway bars upgraded front/rear control arms, and solid bushings... all of which are components of a closely related system, so best to upgrade with specific goals in mind (or even better, holistically) when you're ready to really take the plunge : )
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      10-06-2017, 11:18 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DVC View Post
Thanks! Are you new to HPDE in general, or just LRP? If new to HPDE, then you'll likely be good to go with a stock 328i... although track brake pads and fluid are always a good idea (I like Castrol SRF fluid and PFC08 pads).

Beyond that, if you want to consider some mods in advance, I'd start with a set of square wheels and tires (e.g. Apex ARC-8s in 18x9 ET42 with a good Max performance street tire in 255 or 245 width). From there, an LSD is probably where I'd go next.

After that comes the slippery slope of camber plates, coil overs, sway bars upgraded front/rear control arms, and solid bushings... all of which are components of a closely related system, so best to upgrade with specific goals in mind (or even better, holistically) when you're ready to really take the plunge : )
Next season will be my first HDPE! I have been to LRP many times, ran on the AutoX course a few times as well. Haven't been on the main track yet, but I do have a lot of sim time with a direct drive/motion rig. That's good to hear, so far the only mods I've done to my car are a set of 245 PS4S, rear Bilstein B6 struts, stainless lines, and RBF600... haven't touched the pads yet, but those are easy enough.

I'm glad you suggest that, because I really am not a fan of staggered setups. I hate front end push which is why I'm also considering the LCA's to get some more negative camber up there without having to dive into coils and plates just yet. I have a bit of a peeve with clunks, how is your setup holding up to noise? And I kid you not I was looking at ordering a set of ARC-8's for summers and keeping my 397's winter/alts

I'll want to look into LSD options, it is a shame there is no M Perf diff option for the n20's.
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      10-06-2017, 02:21 PM   #9
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Those are great mods - I think you're doing it right. The next thing you might consider is a down pipe, as they add some nice power and noise without any reliability concerns. Also a charge pipe is good for peace of mind... my OEM charge pipe failed at Summit Point this summer, which really put a damper on things.

There are certainly cars that pull away from me on the straights, so adding a tune would be the next step... but I think I'm actually done modding the car (I actually never thought I'd say that!!)

If I were to do a tune, I'd go with one of the reputable flash tuners in my area that use a dyno to dial things in. The goal for me would be a marginal increase in boost (nothing crazy), but with a focus on having instant throttle response, combined with linear throttle mapping and a HP/torque curve that doesn't fall off all the way up to redline... hopefully adding a little more headroom at the top end. I would also do a Wagner Competition FMIC to make sure the increased boost didn't get things too hot.

But at this point I feel like the car already has plenty of power, and I'm more interested in enjoying the copious mechanical grip that I'm getting with all the chassis tuning I've done. (And by the way, for a car with no rubber anywhere in the suspension - all poly, heim joints, mono balls and spherical bearings - the ride is still very well composed on the street.)
My charge pipe also failed on me at 81,000 miles at Summit Point this season. I had it replaced under the extended warranty. An aftermarket charge pipe is in store for me after 100,000 miles unless BMW revises the OEM part.
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      10-06-2017, 03:54 PM   #10
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My charge pipe also failed on me at 81,000 miles at Summit Point this season. I had it replaced under the extended warranty. An aftermarket charge pipe is in store for me after 100,000 miles unless BMW revises the OEM part.
Ha! Must be something about Summit Point... were you by chance there for the BMW CCA NJ event on July 22/23?

When mine failed, I went into a sort of limp mode, where the car wouldn't make any boost. No idea how much I was down on power, but it felt like a good 40-50% reduction. I still ran some laps in a couple sessions, and I ended up learning a lot about efficiently carrying speed through corners, in what amounted to being a 3600 lb momentum car.
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      10-06-2017, 04:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
I'm glad you suggest that, because I really am not a fan of staggered setups. I hate front end push which is why I'm also considering the LCA's to get some more negative camber up there without having to dive into coils and plates just yet. I have a bit of a peeve with clunks, how is your setup holding up to noise? And I kid you not I was looking at ordering a set of ARC-8's for summers and keeping my 397's winter/alts

I'll want to look into LSD options, it is a shame there is no M Perf diff option for the n20's.
It's great to have two complete sets of wheels and tires. I actually have three: one set of ARC-8s for RE-71R track tires, another set of ARC-8s for Conti EC Sport summer tires that I run April through November, and the OEM wheels with winter tires.

If you're sensitive to clunks, then camber plates might drive you nuts. I have tried a couple different sets, and they are occasionally quiet, occasionally obnoxious, and most of the time somewhere in between. So if you want to skip camber plates, then F8x LCAs and TSes are definitely the way to go to add camber. (Have you seen the threads where guys determined the correct spacers to use to make the TSes fit properly?)
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      10-06-2017, 04:57 PM   #12
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Ha! Must be something about Summit Point... were you by chance there for the BMW CCA NJ event on July 22/23?

When mine failed, I went into a sort of limp mode, where the car wouldn't make any boost. No idea how much I was down on power, but it felt like a good 40-50% reduction. I still ran some laps in a couple sessions, and I ended up learning a lot about efficiently carrying speed through corners, in what amounted to being a 3600 lb momentum car.
Yes, I was - and that's when my charge pipe took a crap.

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1407066

There's my sob story.
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      10-06-2017, 05:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
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It's great to have two complete sets of wheels and tires. I actually have three: one set of ARC-8s for RE-71R track tires, another set of ARC-8s for Conti EC Sport summer tires that I run April through November, and the OEM wheels with winter tires.

If you're sensitive to clunks, then camber plates might drive you nuts. I have tried a couple different sets, and they are occasionally quiet, occasionally obnoxious, and most of the time somewhere in between. So if you want to skip camber plates, then F8x LCAs and TSes are definitely the way to go to add camber. (Have you've seen the threads where guys determined the correct spacers to use to make the TSes fit properly?)
My OEM 400M staggered wheels are now my winter wheels. I have a winter setup of:

Front - 235/45/18 Michelin X-Ice Xi 3
Rear - 245/45/18 Michelin X-Ice Xi 3

I'm not there yet to have a 3rd set of wheels/tires strictly for the track.

The problem with F8x LCAs and TS is that you need to be able to do an alignment almost immediately after install. Otherwise, you'll probably tear up your tires just getting to the alignment shop. I remembered reading you might get some rub up front with a 255/40/18 tire. I might end up opting for the OE camber correction when I'm past 100k miles which is sort of pricey since it involves replacing the hubs
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      10-07-2017, 01:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
My OEM 400M staggered wheels are now my winter wheels. I have a winter setup of:

Front - 235/45/18 Michelin X-Ice Xi 3
Rear - 245/45/18 Michelin X-Ice Xi 3

I'm not there yet to have a 3rd set of wheels/tires strictly for the track.

The problem with F8x LCAs and TS is that you need to be able to do an alignment almost immediately after install. Otherwise, you'll probably tear up your tires just getting to the alignment shop. I remembered reading you might get some rub up front with a 255/40/18 tire. I might end up opting for the OE camber correction when I'm past 100k miles which is sort of pricey since it involves replacing the hubs
The F8x LCAs do throw off the toe significantly, but adjusting toe is pretty easy, so after installing the arms you can do a quick track alignment to get things in shape for the drive to the alignment shop.

As for wheel clearance the F8x LCAs do push the wheels outward a bit (and forward in the wheel wells if you skip the TSes!), but the overall clearance from the strut to the fender doesn't change, so as long as you're a bit flexible with offsets via spacers, you should still be able to make your wheels/tires fit.

I have a set of OEM camber correction hubs (the ones that add -0.5) that I'm no longer using since installing camber plates - let me know if you're interested in them.
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      10-07-2017, 01:02 PM   #15
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Which rear arms did you get DVC? And how much of a difference did it make on track?

I feel like I need subframe bushings, maybe arms...my back end is a bit floaty on higher load turns.
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      10-07-2017, 03:11 PM   #16
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Which rear arms did you get DVC? And how much of a difference did it make on track?

I feel like I need subframe bushings, maybe arms...my back end is a bit floaty on higher load turns.
Rear subframe bushings are a great upgrade. (I posted a review in this thread.)

I went with all 4 Megan Racing arms...

Rear lower arms:
- Rear Trailing Arms – MRS-BM-0380
- Rear Toe Control Arms – MRS-BM-0370

Rear upper arms:
- Rear Camber Rear Upper Arms – MRS-BM-0311
- Rear Camber Front Upper Arms – MRS-BM-0320

One end of the rear trailing arms reuse OEM rubber bushings, so I swapped out for SuperPro poly there...and also swapped out the rubber bushing in the subframe-end of the OEM roll over strut (the spindle-end has a nice OEM spherical bearing). So now everything in the rear suspension is heim joints, poly, or spherical bearings.

The back end of the car is rock solid now, and feels amazing, with tons of mechanical grip.
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      10-09-2017, 01:03 AM   #17
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With the new freedom, did you find any special rear aliment specs which were beneficial out on the track?
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      10-09-2017, 02:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
Thanks! I'm running mostly chassis mods.... Ohlins R&T coils, H&R sway bars, M front LCAs and tension struts, Megan Racing rear arms, and Vorshlag camber plates. Plus the M Performance LSD, solid subframe bushings, and Apex 18x9.5" wheels with 265/35 RE-71R tires. And the soundtrack was thanks to a CG Precision race cat down pipe and exhaust.

Honestly, the car feels really, really good on track at this point.
Hey DVC, I see you also ran 18x9 ET42 for some time? Do you think 18x9 ET30 will work on an F32? These are gonna be my track wheels. Will I need camber plates or simply lower the car for clearance?
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      10-09-2017, 05:14 AM   #19
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The F8x LCAs do throw off the toe significantly, but adjusting toe is pretty easy, so after installing the arms you can do a quick track alignment to get things in shape for the drive to the alignment shop.

As for wheel clearance the F8x LCAs do push the wheels outward a bit (and forward in the wheel wells if you skip the TSes!), but the overall clearance from the strut to the fender doesn't change, so as long as you're a bit flexible with offsets via spacers, you should still be able to make your wheels/tires fit.

I have a set of OEM camber correction hubs (the ones that add -0.5) that I'm no longer using since installing camber plates - let me know if you're interested in them.
I may be interested in them. Would you be able to take a picture of them?
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      10-09-2017, 12:44 PM   #20
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Hey DVC, I see you also ran 18x9 ET42 for some time? Do you think 18x9 ET30 will work on an F32? These are gonna be my track wheels. Will I need camber plates or simply lower the car for clearance?
An 18x9 ET30 with a typical 255 tire will run about the same in terms of fender clearance as my 18x9.5 ET35 with 265 tires. On my car I needed at least 2.5 camber to clear the fronts...plus I did a mild front fender roll (almost imperceptible) just to be safe. The back wheels fit flush without any mods.

Not sure if F32 front fenders have the same clearance as the F30, but if they do, then I think you'd need extra camber for those wheels.
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      10-09-2017, 12:45 PM   #21
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I may be interested in them. Would you be able to take a picture of them?
Sure, will do...
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      10-09-2017, 12:57 PM   #22
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With the new freedom, did you find any special rear aliment specs which were beneficial out on the track?
I can't say I reevaluated and changed the rear alignment based on buttoning down the rear end... Not that it didn't change things enough to merit that kind of consideration, but I wasn't recording tire data very carefully before doing those mods, so I can't objectively comment on what effect they had relative to alignment specs.

Nowadays I'm paying pretty close attention to wear characteristics after each track session, and also taking tire tread temp readings with a probe pyrometer in the outside, center and inside of each tire, so at this point I'm getting much more into the weeds on alignment settings and tire pressures.
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