Winter Tyres

jbtco · 04-19-2013, 11:44 AM

Wrong time of year (I hope) but planning ahead. I have a 330D Msport Xdrive on order but wondering whether or not to go for the :-

BMW winter tyre package (seems to be star spoke 396 , not the most attractive wheels, 225/45 R18 all round shod with Pirelli Sottozero), or

18" M sport option wheel with winter tyres to fit front 225/45 R18 and rear 255/40 R18, or

19" tyres swopped for winter onto the 19" M sport option wheels I have ordered (225/40 R19 and 255/35 R19 rear.

I had a BMW package same all round 18s set up on my E92 comp pack but in the Uk with mostly relatively little snow the performance was poor when not on snow. Some years ago I put a set of Std 18" E46 M3 wheels (wider rears) on my Z4MC and it was fine in snow and better at other times.

My inclination is to go for a set of winter tyres for the 19s, Sottozeros or Pilot Alpins anybody have thoughts or advice. Tyres only is obviously cheapest even with cost of swap overs.

Andy_S · 04-19-2013, 01:25 PM

Unless you're worried about keeping the salt off your 19's I would just get tyres.

I just get Kwik Fit mobile out, they charge £65 to come out and swap 4 tyres.

NISFAN · 04-19-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_S

Unless you're worried about keeping the salt off your 19's I would just get tyres.

I just get Kwik Fit mobile out, they charge £65 to come out and swap 4 tyres.

Apparently, RFT are not supposed to be taken off and refitted.

OP you have plenty of time, a set of rims will come up on ebay or somewhere by next winter. Buy those and fit some winters.

Andy_S · 04-19-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Apparently, RFT are not supposed to be taken off and refitted.

Didn't know that. I was referring to my Audi which has a spare.

Could be an issue next winter. I was hoping to re-use 2 of my winters on the rear wheels of the 330D as they are the same size as the S4.

jbtco · 04-20-2013, 06:13 AM

I think it depends on the type of runflat. I had a puncture (nail through tread) on my X5 (Conti Winter runflats) and the repair shop said that they might not be able to reapair as they couldn't refit some types of runflat but it was possible and they repaired ok.

The winters I get may well not be runflats but would need to refit whatever "Summer" tyres come with the car if I go down the tyres only route.

Rhino at Work · 04-20-2013, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Apparently, RFT are not supposed to be taken off and refitted.

OP you have plenty of time, a set of rims will come up on ebay or somewhere by next winter. Buy those and fit some winters.

It seems to be hard to get a definitive answer on this. I currently just swap tyres (non run flats) but when I asked them the local garage who do it say there is no problem swapping run flats.

Could it be BMW putting out disinformation so they can sell wheel and tyre packages?

jbtco · 04-20-2013, 06:30 AM

Been googling a bit on the subject of refitting run flat tyres and needless to say there seems to be a confused picture. I can understand reluctance to repair punctures if tyre damaged but some tyre suppliers seem to completely refuse to refit runflats . It would be good to see some definitive guidance on this preferably from a source not wanting to sell more new tyres or tyre / wheel packages.

-AndyH- · 04-20-2013, 07:12 AM

The reason they don't like removing/refitting run flats is that the tyres are so hard, you can end up damaging the alloy or wall of the tyres when removing them. They are a real pain for most tyre garages and I have had countless alloys damaged from the tyre lever they use to get the tyres off/on.

With regards to repairing run flats, I had a big argument with my dealer over this. One of my two month old Bridgestone Potenza's apparently had a small nail in it (but it wasn't losing any pressure). My dealer said I had to replace the tyre as it was dangerous and they could not repair it because Bridgestone have told them under no circumstances are they to repair run flat tyres.

I ended up getting them to replace the tyre and contacted Bridgestone. The technical guy there said they issued a notice to all customers last year that they could now repair run flat tyres in certain situations. Where there is damage to the side wall, they cannot be repaired. However, other areas are repairable. I then contacted my dealer who said BMW UK told them they cannot repair run flats and must replace them.

I find it both annoying and a bit of a con that the tyre manufacturer tells one of its big customers that they can now repair run flats, but BMW decide to ignore that without due reason.

-AndyH- · 04-20-2013, 07:15 AM

Oh and winter tyres - I can't find many people with 225/40 R19 and 255/35 R19 winter run flats. I think only Pirelli Sottozero have them in run flats and you're looking at £300 a tyre.

NISFAN · 04-20-2013, 07:25 AM

From an engineering point of view, taking a tyre off and re-fitting it does introduce some stretch in the bead diameter.

As a RFT depends on this being a tight fit when deflated, i.e. running flat. I can see why many engineers would question the diminished safety factor, and would therefore not recommend a re-fit.

ZigmundUK · 04-20-2013, 10:55 AM

Given mine'll be a lease for 2 years I can't justify the hassle of getting winter tyres. Instead I might have to get some snow socks for the odd bit of snow on my cpmmute and just fall back on the winter-shod e61 otherwise.

Edit: main reason is the mismatched tyre widths front and back. Winters are too expensive and if I went 18s all round I'm sure I'd feel like my car's not right without the stock m sport setup...

Nexstar2011 · 04-22-2013, 03:48 AM

I bought the 397 style 18s from dealer, and sourced Pirelli Sottozeros elsewhere (225/45 18 all round). Still came in about the same price as the BMW package - and the wheels are much nicer IMHO (I run the M Sport 19s as summer wheels). Had no issues at all, car still looked good (though not as nice as on 19s ;-) ) - and excellent grip and ride quality. 19s have been back on for about a week now - and the difference in road noise is really noticeable, but they look good!

One of my very good friends runs a garage, and I've witnessed first hand the challenges of fitting/re-fitting RFTs. He's not managed to split one yet (or damage a wheel) - but 40 mins + trying to get the tyre over the rim can't be good for it! ;-)

Plan to keep my car for a good few years - so managed to justify (to myself at least) the investment in a second set of wheels/tyres.

04-19-2013, 11:44 AM	#1
jbtco Captain 163 Rep 641 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland iTrader: (0)	Winter Tyres Wrong time of year (I hope) but planning ahead. I have a 330D Msport Xdrive on order but wondering whether or not to go for the :- BMW winter tyre package (seems to be star spoke 396 , not the most attractive wheels, 225/45 R18 all round shod with Pirelli Sottozero), or 18" M sport option wheel with winter tyres to fit front 225/45 R18 and rear 255/40 R18, or 19" tyres swopped for winter onto the 19" M sport option wheels I have ordered (225/40 R19 and 255/35 R19 rear. I had a BMW package same all round 18s set up on my E92 comp pack but in the Uk with mostly relatively little snow the performance was poor when not on snow. Some years ago I put a set of Std 18" E46 M3 wheels (wider rears) on my Z4MC and it was fine in snow and better at other times. My inclination is to go for a set of winter tyres for the 19s, Sottozeros or Pilot Alpins anybody have thoughts or advice. Tyres only is obviously cheapest even with cost of swap overs.
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04-19-2013, 01:25 PM	#2
Andy_S Private 4 Rep 67 Posts Drives: _ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: North Yorks, UK. iTrader: (0)	Unless you're worried about keeping the salt off your 19's I would just get tyres. I just get Kwik Fit mobile out, they charge £65 to come out and swap 4 tyres.
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04-20-2013, 06:13 AM	#5
jbtco Captain 163 Rep 641 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland iTrader: (0)	I think it depends on the type of runflat. I had a puncture (nail through tread) on my X5 (Conti Winter runflats) and the repair shop said that they might not be able to reapair as they couldn't refit some types of runflat but it was possible and they repaired ok. The winters I get may well not be runflats but would need to refit whatever "Summer" tyres come with the car if I go down the tyres only route.
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04-20-2013, 06:30 AM	#7
jbtco Captain 163 Rep 641 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland iTrader: (0)	Been googling a bit on the subject of refitting run flat tyres and needless to say there seems to be a confused picture. I can understand reluctance to repair punctures if tyre damaged but some tyre suppliers seem to completely refuse to refit runflats . It would be good to see some definitive guidance on this preferably from a source not wanting to sell more new tyres or tyre / wheel packages.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-20-2013, 07:12 AM	#8
-AndyH- Lieutenant 25 Rep 597 Posts Drives: F31 330d X-Drive M-Sport Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Prague iTrader: (0)	The reason they don't like removing/refitting run flats is that the tyres are so hard, you can end up damaging the alloy or wall of the tyres when removing them. They are a real pain for most tyre garages and I have had countless alloys damaged from the tyre lever they use to get the tyres off/on. With regards to repairing run flats, I had a big argument with my dealer over this. One of my two month old Bridgestone Potenza's apparently had a small nail in it (but it wasn't losing any pressure). My dealer said I had to replace the tyre as it was dangerous and they could not repair it because Bridgestone have told them under no circumstances are they to repair run flat tyres. I ended up getting them to replace the tyre and contacted Bridgestone. The technical guy there said they issued a notice to all customers last year that they could now repair run flat tyres in certain situations. Where there is damage to the side wall, they cannot be repaired. However, other areas are repairable. I then contacted my dealer who said BMW UK told them they cannot repair run flats and must replace them. I find it both annoying and a bit of a con that the tyre manufacturer tells one of its big customers that they can now repair run flats, but BMW decide to ignore that without due reason.
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04-20-2013, 07:15 AM	#9
-AndyH- Lieutenant 25 Rep 597 Posts Drives: F31 330d X-Drive M-Sport Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Prague iTrader: (0)	Oh and winter tyres - I can't find many people with 225/40 R19 and 255/35 R19 winter run flats. I think only Pirelli Sottozero have them in run flats and you're looking at £300 a tyre.
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04-20-2013, 07:25 AM	#10
NISFAN Major General 3487 Rep 9,709 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Bedford UK iTrader: (0)	From an engineering point of view, taking a tyre off and re-fitting it does introduce some stretch in the bead diameter. As a RFT depends on this being a tight fit when deflated, i.e. running flat. I can see why many engineers would question the diminished safety factor, and would therefore not recommend a re-fit.
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04-20-2013, 10:55 AM	#11
ZigmundUK Lieutenant Colonel 443 Rep 1,963 Posts Drives: I20 IX M60 Oxide Grey Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: NCL - UK iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 E61 520d SE [0.00] 2017 G30 530d M-Spo ... [0.00]	Given mine'll be a lease for 2 years I can't justify the hassle of getting winter tyres. Instead I might have to get some snow socks for the odd bit of snow on my cpmmute and just fall back on the winter-shod e61 otherwise. Edit: main reason is the mismatched tyre widths front and back. Winters are too expensive and if I went 18s all round I'm sure I'd feel like my car's not right without the stock m sport setup...
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04-22-2013, 03:48 AM	#12
Nexstar2011 Private First Class 26 Rep 157 Posts Drives: G21 M340i Dravit/Mocca Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: London-ish iTrader: (0)	I bought the 397 style 18s from dealer, and sourced Pirelli Sottozeros elsewhere (225/45 18 all round). Still came in about the same price as the BMW package - and the wheels are much nicer IMHO (I run the M Sport 19s as summer wheels). Had no issues at all, car still looked good (though not as nice as on 19s ;-) ) - and excellent grip and ride quality. 19s have been back on for about a week now - and the difference in road noise is really noticeable, but they look good! One of my very good friends runs a garage, and I've witnessed first hand the challenges of fitting/re-fitting RFTs. He's not managed to split one yet (or damage a wheel) - but 40 mins + trying to get the tyre over the rim can't be good for it! ;-) Plan to keep my car for a good few years - so managed to justify (to myself at least) the investment in a second set of wheels/tyres.
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