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      12-15-2017, 05:50 PM   #1
Broncho
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BMW vs Audi vs Mercedes

OK I'm not going to be provocative this time but I can't believe how manufacturers that share the same market space can produce what should be very similar products actually end up with very different machines.

The 3 series, A4 and C Class are all vastly different, I expected this to an extent but not as much as reality.
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      12-15-2017, 06:03 PM   #2
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Not really sure what you are getting at, however all manufacturers have differences in each sector.

Ford Focus, VW Golf, Vauxhall Astra, Mercedes B Class, Audi A3, BMW 1 Series

Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Insignia, VW Passat


Each manufacturer has a its own take on what the customer wants, therefore develops and designs to that idea.
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      12-15-2017, 06:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncho View Post

The 3 series, A4 and C Class are all vastly different
Like what?
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      12-15-2017, 06:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Not really sure what you are getting at, however all manufacturers have differences in each sector.
Well of course they do, what I'm getting at is that given that they have a very similar brief I'd think they would be more like each other but they're massively different.

In fact I'd say they have got further apart over the years I suppose they all need their own identity or USP.
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      12-15-2017, 07:39 PM   #5
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Different in what way? They are all about the same size, they have a very similar selection of engines and power outputs. They all offer rwd or awd options. They are all a similar price with similar options you can spec.
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      12-15-2017, 08:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylemacca01 View Post
Different in what way? They are all about the same size, they have a very similar selection of engines and power outputs. They all offer rwd or awd options. They are all a similar price with similar options you can spec.
That's exactly the point, I'm surprised at how different they are given they potentially should be very similar.
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      12-15-2017, 08:41 PM   #7
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I think the brief is only half the story, given they all need to share a common parts bin across their range of cars including other brands, this shapes the cars much more than previous generations
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      12-15-2017, 09:04 PM   #8
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I think the brief is only half the story, given they all need to share a common parts bin across their range of cars including other brands, this shapes the cars much more than previous generations
Does that make every car in the family good?
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      12-15-2017, 09:17 PM   #9
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BMW= A car for the driver
Merc= A car that has a bipolar identity that thinks its a drivers car, thinks it is the last word in quality but is actually an expensive diversion from a Ford or Vauxhall.
Audi= A car for the masses aimed at those that would tend towards a VW but thinks its a drivers car and doesnt have the confidence to buy a Merc or BMW.

I'd rather have an outdated interior but have superior dynamics that a 'jewel like' interior with iffy driving qualities.
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      12-15-2017, 10:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncho View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Not really sure what you are getting at, however all manufacturers have differences in each sector.
Well of course they do, what I'm getting at is that given that they have a very similar brief I'd think they would be more like each other but they're massively different.

In fact I'd say they have got further apart over the years I suppose they all need their own identity or USP.
I'd say they have actually moved closer together with less differentiation than there used to be.

Compare an E36 series to the equivalent C class at the time, or A4. Very different. The E36 was by far the most sporting option.

I think now there's less to separate the F30 models and the current C class.
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      12-16-2017, 04:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylemacca01 View Post
Different in what way? They are all about the same size, they have a very similar selection of engines and power outputs. They all offer rwd or awd options. They are all a similar price with similar options you can spec.
The Audi A4 is available with RWD ?

I think not.
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      12-16-2017, 09:17 AM   #12
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I'd say they have actually moved closer together with less differentiation than there used to be.
That's how I see it, even for the driving dynamics, the gap has closed.

Obviously different corporate design themes, but very competitive offerings for the customer to choose from.
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      12-16-2017, 10:11 AM   #13
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I'd agree they've moved closer together otherwise I wouldn't be contemplating moving away from BMW.
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      12-16-2017, 10:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncho View Post
Does that make every car in the family good?
I was thinking the opposite, almost every car in a range will have some kind of compromise
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      12-16-2017, 03:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Helmut View Post
BMW= A car for the driver
Merc= A car that has a bipolar identity that thinks its a drivers car, thinks it is the last word in quality but is actually an expensive diversion from a Ford or Vauxhall.
Audi= A car for the masses aimed at those that would tend towards a VW but thinks its a drivers car and doesnt have the confidence to buy a Merc or BMW.

I'd rather have an outdated interior but have superior dynamics that a 'jewel like' interior with iffy driving qualities.
Looking at the list of mods and addition to your car , yeap , surely you were convinced it driven gooood out of the box 😁
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      12-16-2017, 03:26 PM   #16
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Oh god. People went for this really.


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      12-16-2017, 04:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Oh god. People went for this really.


You're off the mark there lad but cheers anyway.
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      12-16-2017, 07:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciscopete822 View Post
Looking at the list of mods and addition to your car , yeap , surely you were convinced it driven gooood out of the box 😁
A fair point. Until I own my own car manufacturing plant/design studio, I will individualise to suit my own needs. Even if I had a McLaren, Aston or Ferrari, I'd still cock my leg and mark my territory.

Tis a great car straight out the box. Just happens to be a better car straight out the box than a similar offering from the others. Bang for bucks and the flexibility, I didn't see Merc or Aldi offering me an equivalent. In my humble opinion and based on personal tastes and requirements etc. Trouble is, 'The ultimate driving machine' is getting diluted with the need to compete with the masses. What would you go for?
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      12-16-2017, 08:34 PM   #19
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Since the "premium german cars" ie audi, bmw and Mercedes have all become mainstream they're all built to a price and closely matched to PCP deals and the like.
This is the case for pretty much everything up to E class / 5 series / A6, I appreciate stuff further up the range is probably different
20+ years years ago BMW products were very solidly made, not aimed at the mass market and probably not discounted - in fact pretty expensive. There weren't so many around and imho a truly premium car
The fact that they're a very common sight means that something has been lost.
I love BMWs still but they're not as special as they once were.
Mercedes C class seem incredibly cheaply made, really trading on their past reputation imho. A shame, a 1970s or 1980s Merc was a fantastic thing, built when engineers were in charge
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      12-16-2017, 09:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquartch View Post
Since the "premium german cars" ie audi, bmw and Mercedes have all become mainstream they're all built to a price and closely matched to PCP deals and the like.
This is the case for pretty much everything up to E class / 5 series / A6, I appreciate stuff further up the range is probably different
20+ years years ago BMW products were very solidly made, not aimed at the mass market and probably not discounted - in fact pretty expensive. There weren't so many around and imho a truly premium car
The fact that they're a very common sight means that something has been lost.
I love BMWs still but they're not as special as they once were.
Mercedes C class seem incredibly cheaply made, really trading on their past reputation imho. A shame, a 1970s or 1980s Merc was a fantastic thing, built when engineers were in charge
Couldnt agree more.

The build quality between my E92 and F32 is obvious. The F32 is more obvious its built to a budget. Seats feel less quality and the interior is shabby in comparison (hence why I've added my own touches to it). Dynamically better but the feel doenst equate to what BMW should stand for. Even more so with Mercs and Aldis I test drove.

Where would people move to if they chose to not go das deutsch route? Jap, Yank, Brit?? The Boxheads still have it for the all round motoring.
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      12-17-2017, 02:32 PM   #21
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I do not change my cars very often but when I do, I do the usual road testing of BMW, Merc, Audi & Jag.
But for me it’s been the BMW why?
I prefer the way it drives, I like the dashboard layout, iDrive and the parking brake.
I don’t like touch screens in cars.
I’m old, but Merc drivers always seem very old and never thought their cars were anything special.
Audi? Always thought they were just a tarted up Volks.
Jag? Always seem to be me to drive too big.
Much as I do not like my local BMW Main Dealer ‘wallies in the Workshop’, I would be very reluctant to buy other than BMW.
Have always thought their electrics/electronics and engines have always been very good and reliable. Never had any problems except long ago with their hydraulic steering box, but the steering was very positive when it wasn’t leaking oil.
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