[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Wires

cranking the volume changes that flat profile, so then it sounds harsh again. That's more of a car environment issue, and less of a speaker driver issue.

That's an audiology issue. The ear/brain is less sensitive to low and high frequencies at low volumes, so to compensate for that we tend to boost the lows and highs, not only with playback equipment but during the recording mastering process as well. As the volume is increased the lows and highs become more prominent, which can make both the bass and treble too loud. For this reason EQ should be adjusted at the volume you usually listen at.

[Wires]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

That's an audiology issue. The ear/brain is less sensitive to low and high frequencies at low volumes, so to compensate for that we tend to boost the lows and highs, not only with playback equipment but during the recording mastering process as well. As the volume is increased the lows and highs become more prominent, which can make both the bass and treble too loud. For this reason EQ should be adjusted at the volume you usually listen at.

Very interesting, I never actually knew that as the deal.

I ended up just setting it for my volume. Out of the box the HK had some really strong mid bass that I didn't really like. Could just be their "style". I have Bose headphones and Bose tends to do the same type of non-flat tweak to their sound stage.

in my car, and the normal volume I listen to, I had to do this to flatten out the response. I would have thought it to be more "flat" out of the box, but it's lumpy as heck!:

Treble 0
Bass 0

L7 off

100Hz -10
200Hz +3
500Hz -3
1kHz +5
2kHz -4
5kHz -4
10kHz +4

[Billfitz]

If you ever had hi-fi stereo receivers or integrated amps back in the days before surround sound most had a switchable loudness control, which boosted highs and lows at low volume, gradually reducing the boost as the volume control was turned up. When digital volume controls replaced analog potentiometers loudness controls disappeared. There is a similar digital tool in some receivers today. My Sony AVR calls it Night Mode. It boosts the lows and highs at low volumes.

[dmanb2b]

Bump. We are at 25% off plus free shipping to CONUS. This discount ends 5/31.

I'm thrilled with this upgrade and look forward to seeing others' impressions when units start shipping out in June.

[dmanb2b]

Just a few days left folks. 25% discount and free shipping. Not a single day goes by driving my car now where I do not appreciate just how good the music listening experience is!!

[n55david]

Looks like the markup on this is ridiculous lol wow

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by n55david

Looks like the markup on this is ridiculous lol wow

Define ridiculous. Lmao. let's see your parts list with retail prices.

ARC Audio Amp, Amp rack, DSP tuned to your car, Sub and custom enclosure, underseats, tweets, mid, x-overs wiring harnesses and what you think is a reasonable profit for a business.

You are not alone in making a comment like that with no substance behind your statement...We'll wait...

[n55david]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

Define ridiculous. Lmao. let's see your parts list with retail prices.

ARC Audio Amp, Amp rack, DSP tuned to your car, Sub and custom enclosure, underseats, tweets, mid, x-overs wiring harnesses and what you think is a reasonable profit for a business.

You are not alone in making a comment like that with no substance behind your statement...We'll wait...

What part of my reply has no substance? If they are willing to forget the price increase and knock 1000 off pretty much right off the bat the markup is very very high. I work in retail and did car audio for a while when I was younger. This is based not only on common sense but expirience. The markup on this is FUCKING HIGH just like all these other guys with upgrades. It's astronomical because it's a bmw tax.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by n55david

What part of my reply has no substance? If they are willing to forget the price increase and knock 1000 off pretty much right off the bat the markup is very very high. I work in retail and did car audio for a while when I was younger. This is based not only on common sense but expirience. The markup on this is FUCKING HIGH just like all these other guys with upgrades. It's astronomical because it's a bmw tax.

Do you buy cold bottled water at $1+/per bottle when you are thirsty? I see you are a fan of BM3 (which I am too)... what would you guess their profit margin is on software? I'm just trying too understand why you feel that this particular solution, even at $4,200 carries such a crazy high markup that is unreasonable? I would have guessed that maybe being in retail this wouldn't be so hard to accept, or perhaps you work for free?

I'm still waiting for you to provide an alternate, lower cost solution that provides true 4-way, soundstage level audio for the avg. BMW DIY person to easily install in an afternoon and avoid car audio shop installation fees. Show us a real world example of your common sense, and how you can save members here much more $ without hours and hours of research buying equipment that may or may not pair well together. I don't know about you but my time is $.

Until then, this is a low volume business trying to promote their brand and the $1K off didn't happen overnight. We have the required firm purchase orders. Even if the company's margin was 80%, who cares?...Common sense tells me it's a business providing a very high quality solution. The owner and I had over an hour long conversation about car audio, if you had just the slightest bit of appreciation for how much time he has put into developing this particular setup for the f30/f80 platform maybe you would realize that cost of doing business is just not the sum of the parts. This fucking thing rocks and makes HK sound like shit. One listen and you would be writing a $3k check, if you truly enjoy music. It's quite literally like driving a tuned car vs. stock.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

Do you buy cold bottled water at $1+/per bottle when you are thirsty? I see you are a fan of BM3 (which I am too)... what would you guess their profit margin is on software? I'm just trying too understand why you feel that this particular solution, even at $4,200 carries such a crazy high markup that is unreasonable? I would have guessed that maybe being in retail this wouldn't be so hard to accept, or perhaps you work for free?

I'm still waiting for you to provide an alternate, lower cost solution that provides true 4-way, soundstage level audio for the avg. BMW DIY person to easily install in an afternoon and avoid car audio shop installation fees. Show us a real world example of your common sense, and how you can save members here much more $ without hours and hours of research buying equipment that may or may not pair well together. I don't know about you but my time is $.

Until then, this is a low volume business trying to promote their brand and the $1K off didn't happen overnight. We have over firm purchase orders. Even if the company's margin was 80%, who cares?...Common sense tells me it's a business providing a very high quality solution. The owner and I had over an hour long conversation about car audio, if you had just the slightest bit of appreciation for how much time he has put into developing this particular setup for the f30/f80 platform maybe you would realize that cost of doing business is just not the sum of the parts. This fucking thing rocks and makes HK sound like shit. One listen and you would be writing a $3k check, if you truly enjoy [...]

You're asking me to provide examples? I'm really sorry, I think you have me confused with someone who gives a fuck... for someone whos not profiting off this group buy you're very defensive of an over priced product that's a part of a greater group of over priced aftermarket products for the bmw community. How fun.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

For anyone doubting the result, grab a good set of headphones and have a listen. Mind you this was recorded with a plain old iPhone and then uploaded to YT. This isn't even close to how it sounds sitting in the cabin:

sample 1

sample 2

Dude you can't demonstrate audio or video fidelity over any medium. Recording it is pointless. This is indistinguishable from stock in this type of format.

Also you're clearly being paid by the company.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by WDE82

Dude you can't demonstrate audio or video fidelity over any medium. Recording it is pointless. This is indistinguishable from stock in this type of format.

Also you're clearly being paid by the company.

Dude, I think I was pretty transparent about that, even acknowledging it's a crappy iPhone recording. $100 for every order...damn, maybe now I can retire

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by n55david

You're asking me to provide examples? I'm really sorry, I think you have me confused with someone who gives a fuck... for someone whos not profiting off this group buy you're very defensive of an over priced product that's a part of a greater group of over priced aftermarket products for the bmw community. How fun.

Nope, I'm not being defensive. I take issue with people spouting off opinions they can't back up...you made a point saying the markup is ridiculous. I'm just asking you to substantiate it. I did not ask you to comment on this post. I also don't give two fucks if you'd rather not. And hey if you can, then you would be helping this community with a money saving alternative. Shit, maybe I just gave you a wonderful business idea.

I approached Integral to offer this discount here...simple as that. I was pretty transparent about any incentive I was offered for running the GB and worked my tail off to get members here the max discount bracket.

[quakerroatmeal]

He already did though he said to be able to mark off 1,000$ even for a group buy you can immediately tell how much of it is marked up.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by quakerroatmeal

He already did though he said to be able to mark off 1,000$ even for a group buy you can immediately tell how much of it is marked up.

Correct, that works out to a group buy discount of 25% or just shy of 30% if you consider the upcoming planned pricing change, what's so outrageous about that? Pretty sure I was clear about that in post #1.

Companies/retailers run sales all the time, ...20, 30...50%, clearance @70% off, etc. Businesses typically aim to make money, so I'm not surprised there is a very healthy profit margin and space to run sales to promote the product. This just happens to be a low volume, high dollar value item offering.

Now if the shock in the outrageous margin or "mark-up" is that this is way overpriced at $4K or even $3K, that's fair. But what's the way cheaper alternative, especially trying to upgrade from HK? No complicated wiring, plug-and-play solution, 100% reversible. Heck, I installed it myself and I'm just a boring old accountant who happens to be crazy about BMWs.

If there is a better, more cost-effective solution out there, please share it. Otherwise, I am just trying to share a group buy and my enthusiasm for what I feel is a really great sound upgrade if one is looking for that extra soundstage experience. The reality is that 95% of owners are perfectly fine with HK, and that's cool.

Group buy ends 5/31. This is my last post in this thread. Be well.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by quakerroatmeal

He already did though he said to be able to mark off 1,000$ even for a group buy you can immediately tell how much of it is marked up.

Pretty telling actually 😆 🤣

[n55david]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

Nope, I'm not being defensive. I take issue with people spouting off opinions they can't back up...you made a point saying the markup is ridiculous. I'm just asking you to substantiate it. I did not ask you to comment on this post. I also don't give two fucks if you'd rather not. And hey if you can, then you would be helping this community with a money saving alternative. Shit, maybe I just gave you a wonderful business idea.

I approached Integral to offer this discount here...simple as that. I was pretty transparent about any incentive I was offered for running the GB and worked my tail off to get members here the max discount bracket.

The group buy substantiated my claim that the markup on this was outrageous 😆 🤣 I'm sorry it can't get any more simple and obvious for you.
This is absolutely hilarious!

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by n55david

The group buy substantiated my claim that the markup on this was outrageous 😆 🤣 I'm sorry it can't get any more simple and obvious for you.
This is absolutely hilarious!

OK, sorry. I know I said I wouldn't post anymore, but this is pretty funny to me TBH. You've yet to substantiate anything other than there is at least a 30% margin in the Company's pricing.

You really think that's outrageous, and you work in retail...

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by n55david

The group buy substantiated my claim that the markup on this was outrageous 😆 🤣 I'm sorry it can't get any more simple and obvious for you.
This is absolutely hilarious!

Markup on consumer electronics is always extremely high. The group commit to buy lowers risk for the seller significantly.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

OK, sorry. I know I said I wouldn't post anymore, but this is pretty funny to me TBH. You've yet to substantiate anything other than there is at least a 30% margin in the Company's pricing.

You really think that's outrageous, and you work in retail...

If it was 30 they wouldn't be making money. It's more like 50 to 60. It's funny because you're the one one who's arguing that the markup isn't stupid.
All you're doing is making yourself look bad and the "post appreciations" show that. Let it go man.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by WDE82

Markup on consumer electronics is always extremely high. The group commit to buy lowers risk for the seller significantly.

Exactly. It seems that this is definitely one of those and on the higher end.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by WDE82

Markup on consumer electronics is always extremely high.

Not really, and I'm in a position to know. The mark up on widely distributed products is low, the mark up on limited distribution products is high. If you want to pay two to four times what a piece of electronic gear is worth drive a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. If you want to pay what it's actually worth drive a Toyota.