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      12-07-2016, 07:22 PM   #89
RPM90
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I like my 340i Msport AT.
The B58 engine is fantastic, powerful, and it enjoys being high in the rev band.
My cold start shaky idle sucks, and BMW still hasn't given a fix, and my dealer tech and the service dept manager keep trying to convince me that a shaking engine at cold start is NORMAL and BMW designed it that way.
Yeah, ok.

My 340i has the adaptive dampers.
The overall suspension needs to be better tuned for flatter handling, less wallow and less nervous rear end on mid corner bumps at speed.
Too much suspension tweaking for the non sport sedan crowd influencing how BMW tunes the sport and Msport variants.
That's a big oversight and they need to correct that.

I don't need driver "modes" to attempt and get me to believe that "sport+" is somehow a greater level of sport compared to the "sport" mode.
Tune the car to be the best SPORT sedan it can be and I'll take that as the singular default mode.
We already had a selectable control for traction and stability controls, and we already had a selectable "sport" setting for the auto trans even before the F30 and it's driver "modes". Redundant and duplicate controls are pointless.
"Eco pro" is pointless in a 3.0 turbo Msport.

There was nothing wrong with the adaptive xenon headlights, and I notice no improvement in night time lighting with the LED headlights. And actually, the LED headlights seem a bit dimmer for some reason and light up less of the road. That could be a needed adjustment, I'm not sure.
Including the LED headlights has removed the adaptive/swivel of the former adaptive xenon headlights. BMW wants me to pay more so the new headlights swivel when that function was included before.
No, I don't think so. Adaptive xenon should have been the standard item and adaptive LED headlights should have been optional.

The HK audio system needs updating badly. LOGIC 7 is pointless and worthless. Engaging it ruins stereo recordings, and I have no need for artificial "surround sound" in my car.
The overall sound quality for an $850 upgrade is not there at all. Sure, the volume can get loud, but the acual audio quality is not there.
Competing manufacturers have better audio systems in the same class and price range.

REDUCE, REDUCE the freaking road/tire noise!
OMG, why does my 2016 BMW 340i sound like I'm driving an early 1990's Chevy sedan over rough pavement?
Does proper sound deadening and proper door seals really cost that much and cut greatly into BMW profits?

FIX the freaking driver side windshield wiper!
I have the exact same spot that the wiper glides over or smears as I did in my 2013 335i. It's the exact SAME spot. I had the dealer replace that wiper on the 335i 3 times and it still glided over the same spot. And now, the same with my 340i, and the wipers have been replaced, no fix.

So, some stupid little things, and some big oversights.
Overall, the 340i is a noticeable improvement over the pre LCI 335i especially in regards to the steering, suspension, handling, and brakes.
The added performance of the B58 is very welcomed, though the N55 was/is still a great engine too.
I get excellent MPG from my 340I as well.
I'm getting nearly 2mpg better than what I got with the 335i.
Nice.

I have great expectations for the next chassis 3 series.
BMW really REALLY needs to get it right, especially the "Sport" and/or "Msport" variants correct. If the next 3 series is a rehash of the F30 with new sheet metal and updated interior, then I'm moving on and away.
Hopefully the 2 series interior will be greatly improved from it's current low rent design and materials as it will be my only other BMW choice.
If neither of those cars works out, then I'm getting an Audi S3.
In my experience the S3 is already has a nicer more modern interior, and is good bit more fun to drive than my 340i. It's also more fun to drive than the A4 and S4. BMW has yet to have an answer for the S3. The M240i is not it.

PLEASE, bring back the "3 series SPORT sedan".
You've done it before, you can do it again.
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      12-07-2016, 07:34 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
I like my 340i Msport AT.
The B58 engine is fantastic, powerful, and it enjoys being high in the rev band.
My cold start shaky idle sucks, and BMW still hasn't given a fix, and my dealer tech and the service dept manager keep trying to convince me that a shaking engine at cold start is NORMAL and BMW designed it that way.
Yeah, ok.

My 340i has the adaptive dampers.
The overall suspension needs to be better tuned for flatter handling, less wallow and less nervous rear end on mid corner bumps at speed.
Too much suspension tweaking for the non sport sedan crowd influencing how BMW tunes the sport and Msport variants.
That's a big oversight and they need to correct that.

I don't need driver "modes" to attempt and get me to believe that "sport+" is somehow a greater level of sport compared to the "sport" mode.
Tune the car to be the best SPORT sedan it can be and I'll take that as the singular default mode.
We already had a selectable control for traction and stability controls, and we already had a selectable "sport" setting for the auto trans even before the F30 and it's driver "modes". Redundant and duplicate controls are pointless.
"Eco pro" is pointless in a 3.0 turbo Msport.

There was nothing wrong with the adaptive xenon headlights, and I notice no improvement in night time lighting with the LED headlights. And actually, the LED headlights seem a bit dimmer for some reason and light up less of the road. That could be a needed adjustment, I'm not sure.
Including the LED headlights has removed the adaptive/swivel of the former adaptive xenon headlights. BMW wants me to pay more so the new headlights swivel when that function was included before.
No, I don't think so. Adaptive xenon should have been the standard item and adaptive LED headlights should have been optional.

The HK audio system needs updating badly. LOGIC 7 is pointless and worthless. Engaging it ruins stereo recordings, and I have no need for artificial "surround sound" in my car.
The overall sound quality for an $850 upgrade is not there at all. Sure, the volume can get loud, but the acual audio quality is not there.
Competing manufacturers have better audio systems in the same class and price range.

REDUCE, REDUCE the freaking road/tire noise!
OMG, why does my 2016 BMW 340i sound like I'm driving an early 1990's Chevy sedan over rough pavement?
Does proper sound deadening and proper door seals really cost that much and cut greatly into BMW profits?

FIX the freaking driver side windshield wiper!
I have the exact same spot that the wiper glides over or smears as I did in my 2013 335i. It's the exact SAME spot. I had the dealer replace that wiper on the 335i 3 times and it still glided over the same spot. And now, the same with my 340i, and the wipers have been replaced, no fix.

So, some stupid little things, and some big oversights.
Overall, the 340i is a noticeable improvement over the pre LCI 335i especially in regards to the steering, suspension, handling, and brakes.
The added performance of the B58 is very welcomed, though the N55 was/is still a great engine too.
I get excellent MPG from my 340I as well.
I'm getting nearly 2mpg better than what I got with the 335i.
Nice.

I have great expectations for the next chassis 3 series.
BMW really REALLY needs to get it right, especially the "Sport" and/or "Msport" variants correct. If the next 3 series is a rehash of the F30 with new sheet metal and updated interior, then I'm moving on and away.
Hopefully the 2 series interior will be greatly improved from it's current low rent design and materials as it will be my only other BMW choice.
If neither of those cars works out, then I'm getting an Audi S3.
In my experience the S3 is already has a nicer more modern interior, and is good bit more fun to drive than my 340i. It's also more fun to drive than the A4 and S4. BMW has yet to have an answer for the S3. The M240i is not it.

PLEASE, bring back the "3 series SPORT sedan".
You've done it before, you can do it again.
Your posts are always thorough and insightful, thank you. For someone who's not a BMW aficionado, would you say the 340i is a great car for first-time BMW owners?
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      12-07-2016, 07:37 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nozydog View Post
I've seen a few and was tempted, but I chose 340i because:
1) Far, far cheaper than XE S
2) Manual box
3) Proper handbrake (a huge bonus for me personally)
4) iDrive not touch screen
5) it's shorter
6) Had an F30 before and liked it

There were too many reasons (for me personally) not to get the Jag!! I was initially worried that I might end up with a SA build but it sounds as though that shouldn't be a worry!
That rotary pop-up gear dial.. too novelty/gimmicky .. the visual lines after a while are just not as balanced as the BMW F30 even non-m-sport.. BMW really has got it going on all-around. Congrats on yer choice as well I know you are enjoying your vehicle as I am.
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      12-08-2016, 12:15 PM   #92
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I must say, this is one of more informative and objective threads I've read in a while. Nobody's arguing, nobody's feeling are hurt (yet) just a bunch of owners objectively assessing their cars. Calling BMW out to make them better, and praising where praise is due instead of blindly just being fanboys... way to go, keep it up.
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      12-08-2016, 05:37 PM   #93
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Good thread - let a friend test drive my car today, and got me thinking about the things I love/like/dislike/hate

So I have: 340i xDrive 6MT w/Msport/Trk/Tech/Cold/Drvrs/Assist - EBII w Saddle Brown

For me after ~7 mos of ownership:

Pros:

Engine - deserves its own Pro's category:
Smoothest engine I've ever driven - feels better in every way from the N54/55
Power - esp in cold weather is amazing - feels so much more than 330hp
Torque - even more surprising than power - never get tired of 3rd gear pulls
Rev Matching is awesome - I can do a little heel/toe and still try to be better, but nobody's as good as the car does it - and if you're a DIY heel/toer, go ahead - it won't get in your way.

Handling - Incredible grip, Don't get the steering complaints - feels great to me
Feels way more capable as a machine than I am as a driver
Get the MPSS tires - worth the price of the Trk Pkg all by themselves

Brakes - on the Trk Pkg are unbelievably good. Shocking really.

Interior - LOVE LOVE LOVE the HUD - get the tech package just for this
Heated steering wheel - never thought about before it but can't live without it now

Exterior - love the F30-Msport shape and appearance and the EBII color is growing on me - originally wanted a darker blue

Cons -
Price - mine was $60k msrp - even after bargaining it down quite a bit - that's still close enough to used-F80 territory that I constantly have 'what-if' thoughts

Servicing - 10k mile oil changes are stupid and are basically trading off engine life against service plan. They should have an option to include 4 more oil changes - really - $150x4 oil changes wouldn't drive that many customers away and would be so much more respectable

Artificial engine noise - this is an abomination that should be against the law - disagree on principle, and wish I could disable with out coding my car.

Engine/Trans - Kind of notchy/jerky in 1st/2nd when cold. Annoying.

Interior - Biggest problem is the crappy bluetooth integration with Iphone 6s. Seriously - I have rented $25k camry's that work better. Can't load playlists, doesn't work well with podcasts, etc. Plugging into USB is necessary to get smooth engagement.
Wont start in sport mode. always comfort mode. Lame
Rear legroom is a little tight for my 14-yr old kid and her friend who are 5'6"ish

Performance - with a 6MT, and switching between Sport and Sport+ and Comfort, the clutch engagement changes relative to throttle position, which makes me drive like a moron occasionally when I forget which mode I'm in and I let out the clutch too fast/slow relative to the gas pedal.

Overall - I'm sure I'm forgetting some things above, but overall it's an incredible machine.

When I think about the decision to buy this over an S4 or an ATS-V or anything like that, it's totally no regrets. About the only thing I think about is 'Could I have lived with the RWD and the extra cost of the F80? Would it have been as good as a daily driver?'

Beyond that, absolutely no regrets.
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      12-08-2016, 07:20 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
I like my 340i Msport AT.

I don't need driver "modes" to attempt and get me to believe that "sport+" is somehow a greater level of sport compared to the "sport" mode.
Tune the car to be the best SPORT sedan it can be and I'll take that as the singular default mode.
We already had a selectable control for traction and stability controls, and we already had a selectable "sport" setting for the auto trans even before the F30 and it's driver "modes". Redundant and duplicate controls are pointless.
"Eco pro" is pointless in a 3.0 turbo Msport.
I agree with everything else you said except for this. The changes are slight, but noticeable on the 340, but very very apparent and absolutely needed on the F8X. If the option to fine tune the modes is necessary on the F80, I think it should be included on the F3X by the simple fact that it enhances the driving experience. The fuel economy savings is measurable in Eco/Efficient mode in both the F30 and F80. If you have the MPE on both the F30 and the F80, you absolutely need eco/efficient mode because the exhaust is loud... like obnoxiously loud in sport mode. I found myself using all the modes in both my 340 and my M3 for different occasions. Also, I personally hate sport and sport+ mode for steering. I think comfort mode gives the best road feel, and the other modes feel like artificial dampening. A big misstep by BMW imho. The ability to go into comfort mode for steering and sport+ mode for everything else is a MUST for me, and if BMW takes away that ability, then I'm worse off for it. BUT I'm sure not everyone feels the same way about the steering mode, so they might like the extra resistance, and more power to them; it just confirms that the driver needs to be able to tailor the driving experience to his/her tastes. The only way I would accept not being able to change steering modes is if BMW goes back to hydraulically assisted steering.
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      12-09-2016, 12:55 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwh2009 View Post
Good thread - let a friend test drive my car today, and got me thinking about the things I love/like/dislike/hate

So I have: 340i xDrive 6MT w/Msport/Trk/Tech/Cold/Drvrs/Assist - EBII w Saddle Brown

For me after ~7 mos of ownership:

Pros:

Engine - deserves its own Pro's category:
Smoothest engine I've ever driven - feels better in every way from the N54/55
Power - esp in cold weather is amazing - feels so much more than 330hp
Torque - even more surprising than power - never get tired of 3rd gear pulls
Rev Matching is awesome - I can do a little heel/toe and still try to be better, but nobody's as good as the car does it - and if you're a DIY heel/toer, go ahead - it won't get in your way.

Handling - Incredible grip, Don't get the steering complaints - feels great to me
Feels way more capable as a machine than I am as a driver
Get the MPSS tires - worth the price of the Trk Pkg all by themselves

Brakes - on the Trk Pkg are unbelievably good. Shocking really.

Interior - LOVE LOVE LOVE the HUD - get the tech package just for this
Heated steering wheel - never thought about before it but can't live without it now

Exterior - love the F30-Msport shape and appearance and the EBII color is growing on me - originally wanted a darker blue

Cons -
Price - mine was $60k msrp - even after bargaining it down quite a bit - that's still close enough to used-F80 territory that I constantly have 'what-if' thoughts

Servicing - 10k mile oil changes are stupid and are basically trading off engine life against service plan. They should have an option to include 4 more oil changes - really - $150x4 oil changes wouldn't drive that many customers away and would be so much more respectable

Artificial engine noise - this is an abomination that should be against the law - disagree on principle, and wish I could disable with out coding my car.

Engine/Trans - Kind of notchy/jerky in 1st/2nd when cold. Annoying.

Interior - Biggest problem is the crappy bluetooth integration with Iphone 6s. Seriously - I have rented $25k camry's that work better. Can't load playlists, doesn't work well with podcasts, etc. Plugging into USB is necessary to get smooth engagement.
Wont start in sport mode. always comfort mode. Lame
Rear legroom is a little tight for my 14-yr old kid and her friend who are 5'6"ish

Performance - with a 6MT, and switching between Sport and Sport+ and Comfort, the clutch engagement changes relative to throttle position, which makes me drive like a moron occasionally when I forget which mode I'm in and I let out the clutch too fast/slow relative to the gas pedal.

Overall - I'm sure I'm forgetting some things above, but overall it's an incredible machine.

When I think about the decision to buy this over an S4 or an ATS-V or anything like that, it's totally no regrets. About the only thing I think about is 'Could I have lived with the RWD and the extra cost of the F80? Would it have been as good as a daily driver?'

Beyond that, absolutely no regrets.
Forgot to add that I'm underwhelmed by the 'orangepeel' paint quality on the EBII exterior. I knew this going in, so not a dealbreaker, but damn - If a $20k Camry has better paint quality, BMW should send some engineers to Toyota to learn how to paint a car... And the difference in volume isn't an excuse - there are both low- and high-volume production cars that get this right - BMW can do this - don't understand why they wouldn't. And it's not just the 3'ers. Have seen this on many of their higher end models too.
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      12-09-2016, 01:00 PM   #96
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Did you not put protector on the paint job?
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      12-09-2016, 01:06 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwh2009 View Post
Forgot to add that I'm underwhelmed by the 'orangepeel' paint quality on the EBII exterior. I knew this going in, so not a dealbreaker, but damn - If a $20k Camry has better paint quality, BMW should send some engineers to Toyota to learn how to paint a car... And the difference in volume isn't an excuse - there are both low- and high-volume production cars that get this right - BMW can do this - don't understand why they wouldn't. And it's not just the 3'ers. Have seen this on many of their higher end models too.
I agree with the paint quality, mine has several blemishes and imperfections in the base under the clear only a trained eye would see, i leased but if i was purchasing i wouldn't have accepted it. definite paint QC issues, my e90 didn't have any flaw in the base.
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      12-09-2016, 02:17 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwh2009 View Post
Artificial engine noise - this is an abomination that should be against the law - disagree on principle, and wish I could disable with out coding my car.
I'm not sure if this is still the case, but the firmware (I-Step) level that my car was shipped with has the AS disabled. There was another thread were other people noticed it no longer working also. I noticed this by trying to code different settings into the ASD module and they had no effect. My car still does not have it as of today. The exhaust physically gets louder in Sport/Sport+ modes but there is no artificial sound in the cabin.
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      12-09-2016, 02:25 PM   #99
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After having my car for about 7 months now, I'm still in love with it. I've done a few mods now and they definitely changed the experience in a good way. The catless downpipe is sweet and gave it a great overhaul to the "already good" exhaust sound.

By far though, the biggest upgrade was swapping out the stock runflat tires for non-runflats. Such a quieter cabin and smoother ride! Car feels much more like a go-kart with sharper turn in. I suggest any of you that are leasing do that so you don't have to purchase runflats upon lease turn-in. I put on Continental ExtremeContact DW's and hope they last until I turn the car in.

As to not thread-jack, check out my thread (link in signature) if you're interested to hear/see more about the catless downpipe.
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      03-19-2017, 08:59 PM   #100
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      03-19-2017, 09:49 PM   #101
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Not surprised at all that the engine is resoundingly well received, but one thing that surprises me are the negative complaints on the HK system. I don't have my 340 yet but is the HK really that bad? I mean I'm coming from at STI so I'm expecting a massive jump in interior quality all around. I'm a sucker for quality sound systems too...
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      03-19-2017, 10:00 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Revelator View Post
Not surprised at all that the engine is resoundingly well received, but one thing that surprises me are the negative complaints on the HK system. I don't have my 340 yet but is the HK really that bad? I mean I'm coming from at STI so I'm expecting a massive jump in interior quality all around. I'm a sucker for quality sound systems too...
The sound system sounds great. I'm really not sure what sound people are going for. Maybe they want extreme bass or something?
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      03-19-2017, 10:50 PM   #103
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16 340i. Only negative to me is the engine tapping noise (many say from injectors). Once noticed its hard to ignore it. Strangely, as a modular design, B48 doesn't have this problem.
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      03-19-2017, 11:45 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelator View Post
Not surprised at all that the engine is resoundingly well received, but one thing that surprises me are the negative complaints on the HK system. I don't have my 340 yet but is the HK really that bad? I mean I'm coming from at STI so I'm expecting a massive jump in interior quality all around. I'm a sucker for quality sound systems too...
The HK system sounds fine to me. I have high quality audio gear at home and lots of high end headphones. Not sure what the complaints are about.
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      03-20-2017, 09:52 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKloud View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKloud View Post
After 2200 miles:

Positives:

Exterior look, LED lights
Engine
Transmission
M Sport steering wheel
Exhaust sound


Negatives:

Too much body roll, floaty ride with base xDrive suspension
Steering feel (sorry)
Road noise
Sound system could be better
Creaks and rattles
Fuel efficiency: I'm averaging 19 MPG

Creaks and rattles? Don't tell me.... your car was built in South Africa?
Yep
Is it possible to avoid a South African built car by doing European delivery at the welt?
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      03-20-2017, 11:02 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oarnura View Post
The HK system sounds fine to me. I have high quality audio gear at home and lots of high end headphones. Not sure what the complaints are about.
I think it sounds fine too... Even though Logic 7 can cause to sound issues, but even with it on, it sounds great. I normally feed mine apple music quality (256 AAC), but I have quite a bit of a FLAC collection that I feed into it and it sounds great with CD/HD quality music.
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      03-20-2017, 11:56 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post

The HK audio system needs updating badly. LOGIC 7 is pointless and worthless. Engaging it ruins stereo recordings, and I have no need for artificial "surround sound" in my car.
The overall sound quality for an $850 upgrade is not there at all. Sure, the volume can get loud, but the acual audio quality is not there.
Competing manufacturers have better audio systems in the same class and price range.
I agree, logic 7 seems okay for some songs and absolutely terrible for others. I turned logic 7 off and overall I like the sound better. I still can't seem to figure out why the bass booms obnoxiously in some songs but is nearly nonexistent in others. The bass is so bad in some songs that it just completely drowns out everything else. I've tried going into the settings and adjusting the bass level, but I can't seem to find a sweet spot. My 2002 VW Jetta had a very basic sound system with the bass perfectly calibrated for each song, no adjustment required. I've heard that others have tweaked the EQ settings and gotten better results but I honestly don't know enough about it to mess with it.
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      03-20-2017, 12:47 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson View Post
I agree, logic 7 seems okay for some songs and absolutely terrible for others. I turned logic 7 off and overall I like the sound better. I still can't seem to figure out why the bass booms obnoxiously in some songs but is nearly nonexistent in others. The bass is so bad in some songs that it just completely drowns out everything else. I've tried going into the settings and adjusting the bass level, but I can't seem to find a sweet spot. My 2002 VW Jetta had a very basic sound system with the bass perfectly calibrated for each song, no adjustment required. I've heard that others have tweaked the EQ settings and gotten better results but I honestly don't know enough about it to mess with it.
Variation with songs is a function of the mastering process of the source material. The HK sound system is revealing the flaws in the recording that your old VW system wasn't able to.

Basically a lot of music is mastered like shit. A lot of them are mastered at higher volume levels with dynamic range compression. Some with over blown bass etc.. A higher resolution audio system will reveal the weakness in the source material. If you pick a song that has less bass in the mastering and adjust your bass levels higher. The next song you play that has higher bass levels in the recording will make the bass overblown.

Pick a reference song and set your levels and accept the fact that not all songs are recorded the same and just live with it. This is the bane of the Audiophile.
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      03-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #109
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Came from a F30 335 to the 340 and I must say there's some improvements and some small things needing to be fixed:

PROS:
1) Engine is a lot more responsive
2) stock exhaust sounds really nice, but with muffler delete and resonator delete, it makes it pop and burble non stop
3) headlights are hypnotizing
4) Adaptive suspension is a must for me from now on. It makes such a huge difference! I don't feel like I'm going to bottom out or feel every bump on the road like I did on the 335.
5) minimal interior changes is a nice touch touch up. I got the alcantra this time so I fell in love instantly with the flow of everything
6) Harmon Kardon being standard on 16's is a big upgrade.. but mine already popped within 2 months ?
7) Save the best for last, It feels like a different monster with the B58 and the transmission has been upgraded and it makes for such a smooth flow of power. When I had the muffler delete in the other car I would always put it in manual mode to shift before drone kicks in, but with this one I can keep it in Drive and it changes gears at the right time. The drone is less on this one as well because the exhaust setup is different as well.
CONS:
1) When engine is warmed up and your ready to go, it bogs sometimes and you feel like your car is about to stop for a millisecond
2) interior noises!!!! WTF! This is the one thing I hated about the 335 and I continue to hate it in the 340. Why do they have to make interior parts with bad quality?! When my friends come in they always say that your car sounds like it's falling apart or something.

Neutral:
Why do they make you get fog lights now? I didn't want one and I have one, not complaining but I never use it.
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      03-20-2017, 08:39 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oarnura View Post
Variation with songs is a function of the mastering process of the source material. The HK sound system is revealing the flaws in the recording that your old VW system wasn't able to.

Basically a lot of music is mastered like shit. A lot of them are mastered at higher volume levels with dynamic range compression. Some with over blown bass etc.. A higher resolution audio system will reveal the weakness in the source material. If you pick a song that has less bass in the mastering and adjust your bass levels higher. The next song you play that has higher bass levels in the recording will make the bass overblown.

Pick a reference song and set your levels and accept the fact that not all songs are recorded the same and just live with it. This is the bane of the Audiophile.
Absolutely this. I'll say up front that I'm no audio engineer, but it's been blatantly clear over the last 10+ years that the mastering process for most modern music is absolutely abysmal--sadly most of which plague the rock genre of which there have been many potentially outstanding albums killed by horrible mastering. Compressed to shit and almost un-listenable at times.

Thanks all for the feedback on the sound system--what a relief. Saw so many negative comments and was worried. I'm not expecting a state-of-the art system, but for a $65K car I'd expect something above average...or at least something better than a damn Subaru!

Great thread, BTW--one of the most informative I've read on here.
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