[joq3]

Hi,

Just got the notice that it is time to do the brake fluid replacement / flush. I'm thinking of doing this myself. But I can't find much information about the F30.

Is there any coding involved or some brake flush mode to set the car in? If it is, is it neccessary?
I'm going to use this tool:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Van-Brak...-/112401451357

I cannot find the sequence you should do the flush in, which caliper to start with?

What type of brake fluid is recommended for the F30 with standard brakes?

Please share your experiences.
Thank you!

[Bestodabest]

Do you track the car? Have you opened the hydraulic system and introduced air or moisture? If not, then you're wasting your time and money.

[spitpilot]

Originally Posted by Bestodabest

Do you track the car? Have you opened the hydraulic system and introduced air or moisture? If not, then you're wasting your time and money.

Bad advice!
The brake system is always "opened"...there must be a vent in the master cylinder to allow the fluid to return to the tank after the brake pedal is released...brake fluid is hydroscopic (absorbs moisture) so it becomes contaminated with moisture at the fluid/air interface in the MC tank.
BMW (and most other car makers) require brake fluid flush at regular intervals...
For current BMW's: First flush at 3 years after production, then every two years.
Fluid requirement: DOT 4 LV (low viscosity)...

Use either BMW OEM or Pentosin Dot 4 LV fluid.

Bleeding sequence is right rear, left rear, right front, left front.

Audi/VW recommends doing a few (4 as I recall) old fashioned "pump bleeds" (use assistant to hold pressure on brake pedal as you open the bleeder, and hold it down until you close it B4 releasing pedal for the next "pump stroke") after using pressure (or vacuum) bleeding to get clear fluid running out of the bleeders. This moves the caliper piston and stirs up any residual old fluid in the calipers and ejects it...since calipers are the lowest points in the system and water is heavier than brake fluid.. stirring up the last bit of old fluid in the calipers always seemed like a good idea to me and I've followed it with all my vehicles.
You do not need to "cycle the ABS" to drive out air bubbles from the ABS valve block if the system hasn't been opened up, and you haven't let the fluid run out during bleeding...so if you top up often and keep the MC tank from ever running dry...normal bleeding will do just fine. If you've replaced either the ABS valve block, or anything upstream...MC or lines..then the BMW diagnostic system will have to be activated to cycle the ABS during the bleeding process.

[Bestodabest]

The venting action required of the cap on the reservoir isn't enough of a reason to justify bleeding your brakes every 2 years. That just insanity. Bleed your brakes when you replace a caliper, etc.

I'm not contradicting you; its just informing the OP that performing a brake flush that often unnecessary (contrary to the manufacturer's service intervals).

[spitpilot]

Originally Posted by Bestodabest

The venting action required of the cap on the reservoir isn't enough of a reason to justify bleeding your brakes every 2 years. That just insanity. Bleed your brakes when you replace a caliper, etc.

I'm not contradicting you; its just informing the OP that performing a brake flush that often unnecessary (contrary to the manufacturer's service intervals).

Noting your location I'd say that yes... you can stretch the flush interval...obviously they are set to prevent moisture contamination damage in more humid climates...and the "far north" is hardly the tropics...but my thinking has always been...hey I've got the wheels off to rotate tires (or now that I've left the "no seasons" zone of CA...put on some winter tires...) so why not get some extra value from the effort to get my ride up on jack stands and do a brake fluid flush every other year...fluid is cheap...calipers damaged by "crud"...not so much!

[Bestodabest]

Toronto suffers through mild, humid winters and hot humid summers; I'd hardly consider it "far north". We do however have high fluctations in temperature, meaning lots of changes in fluid density (which would offer the brake system more opportunities to draw air through the cap).

I don't think i've ever performed a brake flush on a vehicle prior to its brake system requiring repair. Especially not at 3 years. Your brake fluid is still brand new. DOT 4 is what they use in race cars, and is more capable than the now obsolete DOT 3.

If you're not racing your car or in the habit of pouring water into your master reservoir, then spend the money on something else. Even coolant flushes are overrated.

[Bestodabest]

On another note, if you're not mechanically inclined, I'd highly advise against touching any of your brake components. Take it to a professional. Chances are, you risk doing more harm than good.

[jdr78569]

Originally Posted by joq3

Hi,

Just got the notice that it is time to do the brake fluid replacement / flush. I'm thinking of doing this myself. But I can't find much information about the F30.

Is there any coding involved or some brake flush mode to set the car in? If it is, is it neccessary?
I'm going to use this tool:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Van-Brak...-/112401451357

I cannot find the sequence you should do the flush in, which caliper to start with?

What type of brake fluid is recommended for the F30 with standard brakes?

Please share your experiences.
Thank you!

Pressure bleeder, simple and easy. They use them at shops as well; cant do wrong. Cant get anything back in the lines like tradition pedal pumping, it forces the fluids out only. Its quick simple and can do it with 1 person. Thats what I did.

You can purchase a Motive or Schwaben pressure bleeder and a catcher (or use a bottle and rubber hose). You can pressure bleed it with air or fill the container with brake fluid. I did it with air. 2 reasons; 1. it doesnt wear the rubber hoses while in storage and 2 if a connection pops loose it doesnt fling fluid everywhere just air. With the bleeder, catch bottle and fluid it ran me about 80 bucks if im not mistaken. Bought the schwaben 3 liter bleeder and catch bottle from ECU tuning and picked up DOT 4 fluid from BMW. So future times just need to buy fluid and not pay dealer pricing again and again.

You can make your own for around 20-25 bucks too. Lots of videos on youtube for it too.
http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed...eder/index.htm

option 1 air
1. suck out or bleed the reservoir to a bit is left. Dont completly dry it out so prevent any pockets.
2. Fill it up with new approved DOT 4 fliud
3. put the pressure bleeder on snug and pump the bleeder to around 12-15 psi. This keeps a constant pressure and forces it out.
4. go to the bleeder and connect the drain hose. Open the line and drain it till the fluid color changes (if you have different color) OR drain till the reservoir is low but ENSURE it doesnt run out.
5. Continue to other brakes. ensuring you fill the reservoir to ensure it doesnt run out.
6. After bleeding all the lines top the reservoir off and your done.

When I bled mine the reservoir never ran dry while flushing the lines but i continue to monitor the reservoir. If you run it completely dry, its ok. You will just have to top it off and flush again to make sure you get all the air out. I topped off when going to the next brake. My fluid was the same color so for the 1st one I flushed it till it was around 1/4 left in the reservoir, this ensured it was all new fluid in the lines. The following ones was less and less. Having a different color fluid helps identifying when its all new.

Option 2 fill bleeder.
1. fill the pressure bleeder with the DOT 4 fluid.
2 *optional* suck out old fluid from reservoir and fill with new
3. place pressure bleeder cap on reservoir and pump 12-15 psi.
4. go to bleeders and flush the line
5 do this for all 4
6. release air, remove pressure bleeder and top off fluids if needed.

With filling the bleeder you dont have to worry about running out of fluid since the tank is larger and holds more.

Bleeding order, from furthest from reservoir to closest. reservoir is on driver side of engine bay
1. Passenger rear
2. Driver rear
3. Passenger front
4. Driver front

No coding is required but you will have to reset your brake fluid reminder.
1. push on, to turn on ignition not car
2. press and hold the trip reset (after the service reminders go away)
3. release trip button and put till you find brake flush
4. press and hold
5. will ask if you want to reset
6. press and hold till it resets.

You can reset oil and other services if you do them yourself as well.

[spitpilot]

Brake fluid is the only non "lifetime" fluid (except for engine oil..of course) for most car mfgs...every maintenance schedule I've read has a brake fluid flush in there every few years with 2 year intervals being most common...Now since the auto companies' goal is to reduce maintenance costs to look good on "cost of ownership" numbers in car mag and Consumer Reports reviews...why would they leave brake fluid flushes when they've declared coolant, power steering, tranny and diff fluids, fuel filter etc all "lifetime" parts??? Must be a reason or it would have vanished years ago!...

[Bestodabest]

Originally Posted by spitpilot

Brake fluid is the only non "lifetime" fluid (except for engine oil..of course) for most car mfgs...every maintenance schedule I've read has a brake fluid flush in there every few years with 2 year intervals being most common...Now since the auto companies' goal is to reduce maintenance costs to look good on "cost of ownership" numbers in car mag and Consumer Reports reviews...why would they leave brake fluid flushes when they've declared coolant, power steering, tranny and diff fluids, fuel filter etc all "lifetime" parts??? Must be a reason or it would have vanished years ago!...

Liability.

[lens]

Originally Posted by Bestodabest

The venting action required of the cap on the reservoir isn't enough of a reason to justify bleeding your brakes every 2 years. That just insanity. Bleed your brakes when you replace a caliper, etc.

I'm not contradicting you; its just informing the OP that performing a brake flush that often unnecessary (contrary to the manufacturer's service intervals).

Horrible advice. I'd expect better from someone who lives in our weather.


It should be done every 2-3 years. When the brake fluid becomes black, that's when you should do it. It's never a waste to do it every 2-3 years, it's only between 100-150$ for peace of mind, and saves your brake components.

To be honest, doing a coolant and brake flush every 3 years should be the minimum. You'd be surprised to see how disgusting and dirty they become in that time.

[Bestodabest]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Horrible advice. I'd expect better from someone who lives in our weather.


It should be done every 2-3 years. When the brake fluid becomes black, that's when you should do it. It's never a waste to do it every 2-3 years, it's only between 100-150$ for peace of mind, and saves your brake components.

To be honest, doing a coolant and brake flush every 3 years should be the minimum. You'd be surprised to see how disgusting and dirty they become in that time.

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine comes with years of trade experience. Yes, it is recommended to service your brake fluid frequently. Its also the most neglected service, and more often than not, of little consequence.

If your brake fluid is black after only 2-3 years, then there's something else wrong with your brake system.

In our climate, you're more likely to be swapping out seized calipers and rusted brake lines before needing to concern yourself with a fluid flush.

Again, I'm not forbidding him from conducting the service... I'm merely arguing against his adherence to the interval set by BMW.

[lens]

Originally Posted by Bestodabest

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine comes with years of trade experience. Yes, it is recommended to service your brake fluid frequently. Its also the most neglected service, and more often than not, of little consequence.

If your brake fluid is black after only 2-3 years, then there's something else wrong with your brake system.

In our climate, you're more likely to be swapping out seized calipers and rusted brake lines before needing to concern yourself with a fluid flush.

Again, I'm not forbidding him from conducting the service... I'm merely arguing against his adherence to the interval set by BMW.

You have to understand, BMWs are different from hondas. I'm sure you barely touched the brake fluid on hondas, but on our cars, failure to change the brake fluid and just letting it rot, will damage your brake system. It'll corrode parts like your DSC pump and lines and you'll have a nice spongy feel on the pedal. Not to mention, the boiling temp of your fluid is now reduced.

Don't cheap out on a 50k+ car. All maintenance that is normally "neglected" will come back and bite you in the ass. If you're not keeping your car for a long time and it's a lease, do what you want. But if you're keeping your car like me, I would highly recommend you start doing maintenance on "neglected" stuff.

There's no reason to ignore it either, it's dirt cheap to change it.

But hey, it's only my opinion, if you think I'm wasting my money doing it, and staying on the safe side, keeping my maintenance on my car. Then by all means, ignore my advice and run the fluid for 4+years. BMW brake parts are not cheap

[Bestodabest]

Originally Posted by chaungo

You have to understand, BMWs are different from hondas. I'm sure you barely touched the brake fluid on hondas, but on our cars, failure to change the brake fluid and just letting it rot, will damage your brake system. It'll corrode parts like your DSC pump and lines and you'll have a nice spongy feel on the pedal. Not to mention, the boiling temp of your fluid is now reduced.

Don't cheap out on a 50k+ car. All maintenance that is normally "neglected" will come back and bite you in the ass. If you're not keeping your car for a long time and it's a lease, do what you want. But if you're keeping your car like me, I would highly recommend you start doing maintenance on "neglected" stuff.

There's no reason to ignore it either, it's dirt cheap to change it.

But hey, it's only my opinion, if you think I'm wasting my money doing it, and staying on the safe side, keeping my maintenance on my car. Then by all means, ignore my advice and run the fluid for 4+years. BMW brake parts are not cheap

Wherein did i mention Honda's? My trade experience ranges from lawn mowers to LAV III's, and everything in between.

Virtually every car on the road today is equipt with a range of components that are vulnerable to the effects of contaminated brake fluid, including but not limited to ABS modulators, pressure accumulators, proportioning valves, etc. To imply that BMW's are more susceptible to damage is pretty ridiculous.

If you already have the equipment and are competent enough to perform this maintenance, then by all means. But encouraging others to perform repairs normally reserved for licensed technicians is truely "horrible" advice. Even a minutia of air in a hydraulic line can be enough to lose pressure in that circuit.

Otherwise, performing a brake fluid service every 2 years is a waste of time and money. If you want to change your fluid on an as-needed basis, there are test kits available. They'll pay for themselves quickly.

[Bestodabest]

For someone who doesn't know how to change brake pads, you certainly are trying valiantly to defend your position of brake flush intervals. I'll just leave this here...

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1307353

[lens]

Originally Posted by Bestodabest

For someone who doesn't know how to change brake pads, you certainly are trying valiantly to defend your position of brake flush intervals. I'll just leave this here...

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1307353

Guess what, that's about over a year ago.

Guess who learned how to do more stuff within the year? And also saw more things? why do you think I'm defending my position on the brake fluid?

I've seen accidents happen because the brake fluid was so overdue, it boiled. One of my friend who hasn't swapped his brake fluid in 6 years was the vicitim of that, he had a e92 335i.

Originally Posted by Bestodabest

Wherein did i mention Honda's? My trade experience ranges from lawn mowers to LAV III's, and everything in between.

Virtually every car on the road today is equipt with a range of components that are vulnerable to the effects of contaminated brake fluid, including but not limited to ABS modulators, pressure accumulators, proportioning valves, etc. To imply that BMW's are more susceptible to damage is pretty ridiculous.

If you already have the equipment and are competent enough to perform this maintenance, then by all means. But encouraging others to perform repairs normally reserved for licensed technicians is truely "horrible" advice. Even a minutia of air in a hydraulic line can be enough to lose pressure in that circuit.

Otherwise, performing a brake fluid service every 2 years is a waste of time and money. If you want to change your fluid on an as-needed basis, there are test kits available. They'll pay for themselves quickly.

You don't have to do it yourself, I implied that if you know or don't know how to do it, just bring it to someone who does, or do it yourself.

Have you ever since a military vehicle checklist before you sign one out? Brake fluid is on the list and they tell you what is acceptable and what isn't.

My trade experience goes from normal DND vehicles to CF18s (no I'm not joking. Check out BMWTN and you'll know who I am) and guess what, the brakes on the CF18 are hydraulically operated, they swap the fluid every x amount of flights or depending if the filter has been triggered or not.

I'm not here to cause a argument, I'm just providing my own advice on maintaining the vehicle, I don't want people to start taking stupid advice of "neglecting" fluids. I don't want my family or friends to get into an accident because some idiot decided not to swap his brake fluid in 6 years because someone said it's useless to do so. The fact is if you leave your brake fluid alone and don't touch it, it will lose it's temperature of where it's supposed to boil, and it can cause an accident due to it overheating faster.

Don't cheap out on maintenance, especially on a 50k+ car. Will it hurt to swap brake fluid? No, but don't tell people it's useless when it isn't.

I almost forgot. You even mentioned coolant flushes are overrated.

I want you to swap out both the brake and coolant in the next 3-4 years and see how disgusting they are and tell me they're still good. Coolant is IMPORANT for our cars. If you don't swap it, guess your water pump and thermostat are going to go VERY early. Not to mention, your engine will now be prone to overheating. N55 are notorious for running hot.

[jdr78569]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Horrible advice. I'd expect better from someone who lives in our weather.


It should be done every 2-3 years. When the brake fluid becomes black, that's when you should do it. It's never a waste to do it every 2-3 years, it's only between 100-150$ for peace of mind, and saves your brake components.

To be honest, doing a coolant and brake flush every 3 years should be the minimum. You'd be surprised to see how disgusting and dirty they become in that time.

Agreed. If that?s the case why bother changing your oil?

[lens]

Originally Posted by jdr78569

Agreed. If that?s the case why bother changing your oil?

I've never seen anyone, much less a mechanic like he says he is, tell someone to neglect changing fluids on his car. They're inexpensive to do, even if you pay a garage.

[jdr78569]

Originally Posted by chaungo

I've never seen anyone, much less a mechanic like he says he is, tell someone to neglect changing fluids on his car. They're inexpensive to do, even if you pay a garage.

I posted instructions and a video on how to. Hope he figured out what he wanted to do. Take to a shop or DIY.

[Bestodabest]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Guess what, that's about over a year ago.

Guess who learned how to do more stuff within the year? And also saw more things? why do you think I'm defending my position on the brake fluid?

I've seen accidents happen because the brake fluid was so overdue, it boiled. One of my friend who hasn't swapped his brake fluid in 6 years was the vicitim of that, he had a e92 335i.



You don't have to do it yourself, I implied that if you know or don't know how to do it, just bring it to someone who does, or do it yourself.

Have you ever since a military vehicle checklist before you sign one out? Brake fluid is on the list and they tell you what is acceptable and what isn't.

My trade experience goes from normal DND vehicles to CF18s (no I'm not joking. Check out BMWTN and you'll know who I am) and guess what, the brakes on the CF18 are hydraulically operated, they swap the fluid every x amount of flights or depending if the filter has been triggered or not.

I'm not here to cause a argument, I'm just providing my own advice on maintaining the vehicle, I don't want people to start taking stupid advice of "neglecting" fluids. I don't want my family or friends to get into an accident because some idiot decided not to swap his brake fluid in 6 years because someone said it's useless to do so. The fact is if you leave your brake fluid alone and don't touch it, it will lose it's temperature of where it's supposed to boil, and it can cause an accident due to it overheating faster.

Don't cheap out on maintenance, especially on a 50k+ car. Will it hurt to swap brake fluid? No, but don't tell people it's useless when it isn't.

I almost forgot. You even mentioned coolant flushes are overrated.

I want you to swap out both the brake and coolant in the next 3-4 years and see how disgusting they are and tell me they're still good. Coolant is IMPORANT for our cars. If you don't swap it, guess your water pump and thermostat are going to go VERY early. Not to mention, your engine will now be prone to overheating. N55 are notorious for running hot.

If your friend was involved in a collision that resulted from brake fluid boiling, then that's an operator problem.

I've been seeing those daily inspection checklists for 11 years now. I'm the guy you come and see when a fault is found. Please stay in your lane.

I stand by my previous statements. Unless you can produce evidence of QL5 Vehicle Technician training, a 310S or 310T red seal certificate, then you should keep your opinion to yourself. Tell your idiot friend to stop racing on public roadways.

You don't become an expert on the matter a year after figuring out how to swap brake pads.

[Bestodabest]

Originally Posted by jdr78569

Agreed. If that?s the case why bother changing your oil?

Are we still talking about brake fluid?

[Bestodabest]

Originally Posted by chaungo

I've never seen anyone, much less a mechanic like he says he is, tell someone to neglect changing fluids on his car. They're inexpensive to do, even if you pay a garage.

Never said i was a mechanic; but it certainly sounds like you're not. Do i smell an MSE Op?