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      12-13-2014, 05:32 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
I have no idea what the power of the B48 will be in the F30, but I imagine that the driving force for the change from the N20 will be more along the lines of fuel efficiency (as well as being part of an overall engine architecture). I think BMW's goal is to improve mpg where they can within this framework. That they may gain efficiencies and some improvement in horsepower/torque will be a bonus. My WAG is 255 hp at somewhat lower rpm and 270 lb-ft across a broader rpm range. MPG improvement of 2 mpg. I bet these numbers are not far off when we finally see them.


i could see there being little to no change in HP. like say 330 and 260, and in the real world actually the same given how underrated the n20/n55 were.

To the person who said the e90 325i and 328i had a 15hp jump, that was just on paper too. it was the same exact engine and intake / exhaust. they just changed the number and increased the model number.

When the n55 came out it didn't increase HP over the n54. many argued it made it less.

The B series engines are supposed to use different injectors that cause less carbon buildup and allow finer spraying of fuel to be more efficient. probably will save a few mpg. but doesnt necessarily mean it'll be much more powerful.
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      12-13-2014, 09:58 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
the S4, always had 333hp, and it always competed against the 335i. so i'd guess this will bring BMW up to par on the paper HP numbers.
IMO the S4 only competed against the E90 335is which was a more sport oriented 335 with more HP. The F30 335 is just a more powerful version of the 328i where the S4 has high end sport seats and a very sport oriented suspension as well as the supercharged engine. BMW offers nothing in the F30 that matches those specs. You'd need to add a lot of M Performance options to equate it to S4 equipment levels.
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      12-14-2014, 04:57 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
IMO the S4 only competed against the E90 335is which was a more sport oriented 335 with more HP. The F30 335 is just a more powerful version of the 328i where the S4 has high end sport seats and a very sport oriented suspension as well as the supercharged engine. BMW offers nothing in the F30 that matches those specs. You'd need to add a lot of M Performance options to equate it to S4 equipment levels.
i don't know about that.

a 335i m-sport i think would be fairly competitive. with the S4. Yeah bmw hasn't come out with a m335i F30 or anything like that, but i wouldn't sell the F30 335i short like that. sure a 335i luxury line wouldn't be there, but i'd still rather have a F30 335i m-sport over a S4 myself.
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      12-14-2014, 06:26 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
IMO the S4 only competed against the E90 335is which was a more sport oriented 335 with more HP. The F30 335 is just a more powerful version of the 328i where the S4 has high end sport seats and a very sport oriented suspension as well as the supercharged engine. BMW offers nothing in the F30 that matches those specs. You'd need to add a lot of M Performance options to equate it to S4 equipment levels.
Great points. I really believe BMW should axe the 335i/340i all together, and only offer them as M340i. That's it. That's what consumers want. If you are going to spring for a 335i, that already indicates you want a performance oriented car. A more powerful 3 series, but not quite an M. Besides, the 335i has pretty low sales as is, compared to the 328i and now 320i. And of those few folks who buy a 335i, I would guess half of them spend the extra money to add even more performance and modify their cars.


320i --- 180hp
328i --- 260hp
M340i - 340hp (with suspension and exhaust upgrades and a tuned 3 series engine)
M3 ----- 420hp


Audi has got this one figured out, while BMW has been busy making ambiguous active tourers and porking up it's line-up more than ever. A lot can be said about streamlining.
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      12-14-2014, 06:41 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
IMO the S4 only competed against the E90 335is which was a more sport oriented 335 with more HP.
Except that there was no E90 335is - only E92 and E93 335is.

It's true that the S4 offers more uniqueness vs. an A4 than a 335i does vs. a 328i. However, the S4 and 335i (particularly in xDrive spec) have been pitted against each other by a number of magazines with some testers preferring the Audi and some preferring the BMW.

That said, an M340i would definitely be a welcome product, especially with a power bump over the upcoming ~330hp 340i. BMW won't be matching (or approximately matching) the S4's power for long - the B9 S4 is expecting to drop some time next year with 350-ish hp and a bit less weight than the current model.
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      12-14-2014, 04:25 PM   #94
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I guess again this german lineup after LCI:
  • 318i with B38 or N20 with ???PS
  • 320i with B48 with 192PS same engine like 220i AT
  • 325i with B48 with 231PS same engine like 225i AT
  • 330i with B48 with 272PS
  • 340i with B58 and ???PS

This seems to be the only solution which make really sence without leaving gap in important HP regions.
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      12-14-2014, 07:00 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
I guess again this german lineup after LCI:
  • 318i with B38 or N20 with ???PS
  • 320i with B48 with 192PS same engine like 220i AT
  • 325i with B48 with 231PS same engine like 225i AT
  • 330i with B48 with 272PS
  • 340i with B58 and ???PS

This seems to be the only solution which make really sence without leaving gap in important HP regions.
I think this seems really reasonable. Just a shame the N20 is being retired (at least in the 3 series line) so quickly. Perhaps the 328 with the N20 will live on in other markets, or the B48 is such a great increase over the N20 it was worth replacing so quickly.

It seems odd the 320 would retain the same badge but get a power increase in the same F30 chassis, though. Also curious as to which models the states will receive, probably just 325, 330 and 340?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
Great points. I really believe BMW should axe the 335i/340i all together, and only offer them as M340i. That's it. That's what consumers want. If you are going to spring for a 335i, that already indicates you want a performance oriented car. A more powerful 3 series, but not quite an M. Besides, the 335i has pretty low sales as is, compared to the 328i and now 320i. And of those few folks who buy a 335i, I would guess half of them spend the extra money to add even more performance and modify their cars.


320i --- 180hp
328i --- 260hp
M340i - 340hp (with suspension and exhaust upgrades and a tuned 3 series engine)
M3 ----- 420hp


Audi has got this one figured out, while BMW has been busy making ambiguous active tourers and porking up it's line-up more than ever. A lot can be said about streamlining.
I don't think most people that buy a 335 really care for the sport appearance or M options that the M235 receives, so to replace the 335 with the M340 as the only option would result in VP's being forced into an M decked out F30 ... something I can't really see them placing value on. The 2 series is a different market because it's a sporty 2 door coupe, where as the 3 series is more a grocery grabber or executive sedan.
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      12-14-2014, 07:01 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT
I guess again this german lineup after LCI:
  • 318i with B38 or N20 with ???PS
  • 320i with B48 with 192PS same engine like 220i AT
  • 325i with B48 with 231PS same engine like 225i AT
  • 330i with B48 with 272PS
  • 340i with B58 and ???PS

This seems to be the only solution which make really sence without leaving gap in important HP regions.
The 218i now have the b38 and 136ps doesn't make sense to me but it's now official. I guess the 318i will have the same.
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      12-14-2014, 07:44 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Except that there was no E90 335is - only E92 and E93 335is.

It's true that the S4 offers more uniqueness vs. an A4 than a 335i does vs. a 328i. However, the S4 and 335i (particularly in xDrive spec) have been pitted against each other by a number of magazines with some testers preferring the Audi and some preferring the BMW.

That said, an M340i would definitely be a welcome product, especially with a power bump over the upcoming ~330hp 340i. BMW won't be matching (or approximately matching) the S4's power for long - the B9 S4 is expecting to drop some time next year with 350-ish hp and a bit less weight than the current model.
Thanks. I was being generic in using the term E90. I guess the E92 335is competed with the S5. I wonder if BMW will introduce an is version in 2017 when the current model nears it's end or will the new engines make that moot?
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      12-14-2014, 08:03 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
I guess again this german lineup after LCI:
  • 318i with B38 or N20 with ???PS
  • 320i with B48 with 192PS same engine like 220i AT
  • 325i with B48 with 231PS same engine like 225i AT
  • 330i with B48 with 272PS
  • 340i with B58 and ???PS

This seems to be the only solution which make really sence without leaving gap in important HP regions.
I know I'm wasting my time, but anyway:

318i
320i
330i
340i

THAT'S IT.
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      12-14-2014, 08:07 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalls90 View Post
It seems odd the 320 would retain the same badge but get a power increase in the same F30 chassis, though. Also curious as to which models the states will receive, probably just 325, 330 and 340?
The stuff you're "curious" about has been public on this very site for at least 5 or 6 months now.
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      12-14-2014, 08:45 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
I guess again this german lineup after LCI:
  • 318i with B38 or N20 with ???PS
  • 320i with B48 with 192PS same engine like 220i AT
  • 325i with B48 with 231PS same engine like 225i AT
  • 330i with B48 with 272PS
  • 340i with B58 and ???PS

This seems to be the only solution which make really sence without leaving gap in important HP regions.
I know I'm wasting my time, but anyway:

318i
320i
330i
340i

THAT'S IT.
Do you have any sight of a b48 or b58 based on the B38 of the i8 in the future? That could some power monster
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      12-14-2014, 08:52 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Do you have any sight of a b48 or b58 based on the B38 of the i8 in the future? That could some power monster
Nothing on that front at the moment.
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      12-15-2014, 03:14 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I know I'm wasting my time, but anyway:

318i
320i
330i
340i

THAT'S IT.
If you are really knowing all details, can you please post some (around) hp-numbers for 318i/320i/330i/340i !?

My problem is that BMW all the time has the same hp-numbers for all models with the same numbers (last two digits) in all series. So an .25i would have the same hp-numbers in an 225i and in an possible 325i and in an possible 525i (G10?), so when they went to the 330i moniker it must have an higher hp-output than the .25is 231PS in JCW and 225i AT and also than in the pre-LCI 328i with 245PS, so I guess 260PS is the absolutely minimum PS-number for an 330i ... which would leave the most important german hp-range 200-250hp range empty!?
Seams not logical if BMW has an perfekt fitting .25i engine with 231PS allready in its engine portfolio ... and also all the time in the past, if an 330i exists, an 325i fills the gap between 320i and 330i.
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      12-15-2014, 07:17 AM   #103
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Edit:

And at least the all new G11 7-series defines a lot for the greater F30 LCI engines ... since the last two digit means that all models were these digit are the same will have the same hp-numbers.

And for the G11 this models would make sence:
  • 730i with 272PS (B48) - same engine as 330i
  • 740i with 365PS (B58) - same engine as 340i
  • 750i with 450PS (N63) - same engine as 550i

Okay ... with an little chance for 250PS in the 730i and 350PS in the 740i, but 250PS seem a little bit low for an enty level 7er series and in the 3er series a little bit too small increase to justify going from the 328i to the 330i moniker.
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      12-15-2014, 07:19 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Thanks. I was being generic in using the term E90. I guess the E92 335is competed with the S5.
Right, that was more my point - there was no S4 equivalent, only an S5 equivalent.

Quote:
I wonder if BMW will introduce an is version in 2017 when the current model nears it's end or will the new engines make that moot?
The car will fall under the M Performance brand if they build it, and likely be called the M340i as discussed above. Or they could perhaps call it an M345i too I suppose.
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      12-15-2014, 10:23 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Right, that was more my point - there was no S4 equivalent, only an S5 equivalent.



The car will fall under the M Performance brand if they build it, and likely be called the M340i as discussed above. Or they could perhaps call it an M345i too I suppose.
Thanks. I'm a neighbor by the way. I'm in Farmington Hills.
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      12-15-2014, 10:49 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
If you are really knowing all details, can you please post some (around) hp-numbers for 318i/320i/330i/340i !?
I know it, but it's not my info - can't share. But I've given plenty of hints by now for people who pay attention to make the right conclusions.
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      12-15-2014, 02:23 PM   #107
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Lol. I have to agree with what you said about this 340i nonsense at 370hp. You have tried for so long to tone down the expectations with no luck

However I still think it's a possibility at an additional cost to the standard 340i.

No way is BMW selling a 340-370hp 340i at the current 335i prices
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      12-15-2014, 02:43 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Lol. I have to agree with what you said about this 340i nonsense at 370hp. You have tried for so long to tone down the expectations with no luck


However I still think it's a possibility at an additional cost to the standard 340i.

No way is BMW selling a 340-370hp 340i at the current 335i prices
If the 335 was dynoing close to 300 at the wheels, that means it makes close to 330 at the crank. If the 340 is expected to be rated at 330, then it would have to make 360 at the crank.

Considering US sales are below expectations, and the competition offers engines at the same price point with more power, one should not be surprised if BMW bumped up their power for the first time since 2006.

I'm sure the 340 will see a price increase from the 335... Isn't that usually the case when there is a LCI? It is for new chassis and even from each new MY

Last edited by Pauleebe; 12-16-2014 at 09:59 AM..
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      12-15-2014, 02:45 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
Edit:

And at least the all new G11 7-series defines a lot for the greater F30 LCI engines ... since the last two digit means that all models were these digit are the same will have the same hp-numbers.

And for the G11 this models would make sence:
  • 730i with 272PS (B48) - same engine as 330i
  • 740i with 365PS (B58) - same engine as 340i
  • 750i with 450PS (N63) - same engine as 550i

Okay ... with an little chance for 250PS in the 730i and 350PS in the 740i, but 250PS seem a little bit low for an enty level 7er series and in the 3er series a little bit too small increase to justify going from the 328i to the 330i moniker.
Past 7 series have had even less power before. US probably won't see the 730i
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      12-15-2014, 04:18 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalls90
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Lol. I have to agree with what you said about this 340i nonsense at 370hp. You have tried for so long to tone down the expectations with no luck


However I still think it's a possibility at an additional cost to the standard 340i.

No way is BMW selling a 340-370hp 340i at the current 335i prices
If the 335 was dynoing close to 300 at the wheels, that means it makes close to 330 at the crank. If the 340 is expected to be rated at 330, then it would have to make 360 at the crank.

Considering US sales are below expectations, and the competition offers engines at the same price point with more power, one should not be surprised if BMW bumped up their power for the first time since 2006.

I'm sure the 340 will see a price increase from the 335... Isn't that usually the case when there is a LCI? It is for new chassis and even from each new MY
I am with yng... here. I only disagree with him to the extent that he says there is no possibility of 360+ horses for the B58. I think it's possible after paying a whole lot more than we pay for the PPK now.

As far as 340-370hp (advertised hp) in standard 340i trim is concerned I think that's just nonsense. Not for 335i money adjusted for your standard LCI price adjustments.

However I don't hold a crystal ball nor do I work at BMW. Just one mans opinion
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