[SupremePower3335]

So I have been looking at the older M3 (2009/2010) b/c it's a classic vehicle and the last iteration of the NA V8 so looking at the long term. However the prices here in Canada are still hovering around the $60 mark - Coupe and CPO that is.
At first when I saw the new F30 I didnt like it but I saw the new items it has such as
- HUD
- New MSport Steering wheel
- Painted Calipers or Performance Brakes
- New Interior

I REALLY liked it.

Since the prices are pretty close I am thinking of going for that..I know they are completely two differant cars (to some degree) and I already have an E90.

I am curious to see if anyone else has made a similar decision and which way they went and why. Barring that I may wait for the F32 - just not sure what it looks like and I am not sure I can wait...


Thoughts?

[NateDog07V]

well for whatever it's worth, the e92 M3 dyno's at roughly 350/260 and the F30 335i dynos around 290/290 give or take a bit.... grab a BMS tune for under 400 bucks and your 4dr sedan which gets twice the gas mileage is now 330/350 which should give the M3 a good run depending on where in the RPM band you start... my bro has the DCT in his new M3 and i'll be honest, the 8AT in the F30 is surprisingly similar.... all that said, if money is the same in canada, i'd take the M3 just cause it's more unique... i did a lease on a new f30 m sport and it priced out at 53 with a 580 a month payment as opposed to an m3 which would be 70k and waaaay more per month

[sparkyg]

I have an M3 and it is like to no other vehicle. 8200 rpm in second gear is the closest you'll get to driving a fckn race car.

I know everyone here loves the 335 and I know you can tweak it to shit and it'll be as fast or faster but it is no where close to the driving experience you'll have with M3.

I had a Dinan stg 3 E90 335xi and it was fast but the M3 is totally different.

The handling of the M3 is 200-300% better than the F30 and so too are the brakes. Lets not debate that.

The visceral experience in driving the M3 is fantastic. Its all about force, balance, control. It is a razor sharp scalpel whereas the 335 is a sharp steak knife.

The downsides, insurance and gas costs. Can you afford $80/week on gas? That is the biggest penalty if your are Cdn. It will consume 2x the fuel of a 335. When you have an M3 you drive it hard and the fuel use goes up more than you prob think.

I am in AB and its 114.9/l. In Tdot you are prob 1.25/l so $80/week or $320/month is very realistic.

The mileage never is good. 14.9 l/100km all the time suburban unless you drive like a grandma on the freeways and then is 10.9l/100km.

If you are a driving enthusiast you will not regret. HOWEVER, if the car is a tool for you to live your life and you just want to get A-B and have some fun, get an F30. The M3 requires constant driving skills, is not an easy cruiser and when the weather goes bad it can be a challenge unless you have a full assortment of tires and rims. Again more $$$.

I have had mine for 4 years and while I love it, it gets tiring at times when you just want an easy drive and not fill up again at the gas station.

Be honest with yourself and your driving needs. The M3 is a big $$$ commitment. Its great to have but having 2 cars would be better. Sometimes I feel I need a break from the race car. Esp in winter when it -30 and drigin snow and blooding ugly and I'm stuck in traffic and muddling along. Its way too much then, and then "BING" give me more gas pls!

GL anyhow.

FWIW I am looking at an 2013 F31 328xi T so I do see both angles.

GL

[Red Bread]

I hate this debate, the M3 is a better car, it has a limited slip, that alone makes it better. However, the brakes are in no way better. The only advantage in single braking distances is due to the massively better tires M3's come with than F30's, and repeated braking will favor the better calipers of the F30.

The E9x may be a sharper knife, but thinking it's a race car leaves a lot of other cars out there that must be rocket ships, intergalactic transit or laser beams.

[SupremePower3335]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

I have an M3 and it is like to no other vehicle. 8200 rpm in second gear is the closest you'll get to driving a fckn race car.
I know everyone here loves the 335 and I know you can tweak it to shit and it'll be as fast or faster but it is no where close to the driving experience you'll have with M3.
I had a Dinan stg 3 E90 335xi and it was fast but the M3 is totally different.
The handling of the M3 is 200-300% better than the F30 and so too are the brakes. Lets not debate that.
The visceral experience in driving the M3 is fantastic. Its all about force, balance, control. It is a razor sharp scalpel whereas the 335 is a sharp steak knife.
The downsides, insurance and gas costs. Can you afford $80/week on gas? That is the biggest penalty if your are Cdn. It will consume 2x the fuel of a 335. When you have an M3 you drive it hard and the fuel use goes up more than you prob think.
I am in AB and its 114.9/l. In Tdot you are prob 1.25/l so $80/week or $320/month is very realistic.
The mileage never is good. 14.9 l/100km all the time suburban unless you drive like a grandma on the freeways and then is 10.9l/100km.
If you are a driving enthusiast you will not regret. HOWEVER, if the car is a tool for you to live your life and you just want to get A-B and have some fun, get an F30. The M3 requires constant driving skills, is not an easy cruiser and when the weather goes bad it can be a challenge unless you have a full assortment of tires and rims. Again more $$$.
I have had mine for 4 years and while I love it, it gets tiring at times when you just want an easy drive and not fill up again at the gas station.
Be honest with yourself and your driving needs. The M3 is a big $$$ commitment. Its great to have but having 2 cars would be better. Sometimes I feel I need a break from the race car. Esp in winter when it -30 and drigin snow and blooding ugly and I'm stuck in traffic and muddling along. Its way too much then, and then "BING" give me more gas pls!
GL anyhow.
FWIW I am looking at an 2013 F31 328xi T so I do see both angles.
GL

FANTASTIC READ!!
You highlight many good points and things to consider...In fact I tried to get the 328 in MSport but my SA assures me that it cannot be ordered in CAN, even special ordered b/c I wanted DD and a race car which I hadnt decided. I do not want to drive an M3 in the Canadian winter but I cannot afford two bimmers hence me looking at the F30 - performance and a great DD..However the M3 is soooo tempting!

PS In the winter I will exclusively by driving 5KM away to the train station. If we (the wife and I) need to go anywhere we will take the E90 335XI so perhaps I am over thinking it..

PPS Great to hear from a Canadian who understands the Gas issue! This point was hilarious..

Its way too much then, and then "BING" give me more gas pls!

I caught myself laughing so loud in the office

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

The handling of the M3 is 200-300% better than the F30 and so too are the brakes. Lets not debate that.

Let's debate that.

I had a E90 M3 6MT from 2008-2010. Great car, 19"wheels plus Pilot Sports. Did trackdays with it.

I now have a F30 Sportline with Adaptive suspension, sportssteering, the 19"with Potenzas( 1.25G through the Sachkurve according to German carmag Sportauto)

The F30 handles the same or even better and goes faster through many bends than the E90 M3(which is a tad heavier) .

About the brakes? The Brembos on the F30 are just better than the OEM M3 brakes. Period. After two laps at Assen Moto GP my M3 brakes were almost on fire. Speed is relative. IRL a F30 is just as fast or faster(335i) but when you floor it the M3 will run away a bit. But that's fine because it has more HP(but not many torque low which I found sometimes irritating)

MPG? No contest. F30.

An M3 is a great great great car. But to say it's/handles 200-300% better is nonsense.

The best part of the M3 is not the V8(I had a E46 M3 back in 2003)imo. It's the limited slip differential...
The V8 is overrated in terms of daily use(low down grunt below 4000rpm doesn't feel powerful, it guzzles gas like no other etc)

Coming from experience of owning (and abusing) one.

Cheers
Robin

[SPACEMANRICK]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

I have an M3 and it is like to no other vehicle. 8200 rpm in second gear is the closest you'll get to driving a fckn race car.

I know everyone here loves the 335 and I know you can tweak it to shit and it'll be as fast or faster but it is no where close to the driving experience you'll have with M3.

I had a Dinan stg 3 E90 335xi and it was fast but the M3 is totally different.

The handling of the M3 is 200-300% better than the F30 and so too are the brakes. Lets not debate that.

The visceral experience in driving the M3 is fantastic. Its all about force, balance, control. It is a razor sharp scalpel whereas the 335 is a sharp steak knife.

The downsides, insurance and gas costs. Can you afford $80/week on gas? That is the biggest penalty if your are Cdn. It will consume 2x the fuel of a 335. When you have an M3 you drive it hard and the fuel use goes up more than you prob think.

I am in AB and its 114.9/l. In Tdot you are prob 1.25/l so $80/week or $320/month is very realistic.

The mileage never is good. 14.9 l/100km all the time suburban unless you drive like a grandma on the freeways and then is 10.9l/100km.

If you are a driving enthusiast you will not regret. HOWEVER, if the car is a tool for you to live your life and you just want to get A-B and have some fun, get an F30. The M3 requires constant driving skills, is not an easy cruiser and when the weather goes bad it can be a challenge unless you have a full assortment of tires and rims. Again more $$$.

I have had mine for 4 years and while I love it, it gets tiring at times when you just want an easy drive and not fill up again at the gas station.

Be honest with yourself and your driving needs. The M3 is a big $$$ commitment. Its great to have but having 2 cars would be better. Sometimes I feel I need a break from the race car. Esp in winter when it -30 and drigin snow and blooding ugly and I'm stuck in traffic and muddling along. Its way too much then, and then "BING" give me more gas pls!

GL anyhow.

FWIW I am looking at an 2013 F31 328xi T so I do see both angles.

GL

Best, logical, honest comparison I have read.......I think we can all afford the gas but it still must be a pain if you have to fill up your car every 350 km

[chrisny]

Lots of conversation on here but it comes down to this, do you need this to be a (somewhat) practical purchase? If so, F30, if not, M3 hands down.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Having sold the 2010 E90 M3 M-DCT then having the F10 550i M Sport and now have the 330D touring M Sport on order, I feel qualified to answer.
IF MPG/practicality is no problem then M3 will please all day long.
If not F30 all the way. Simple.

[SupremePower3335]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Lots of conversation on here but it comes down to this, do you need this to be a (somewhat) practical purchase? If so, F30, if not, M3 hands down.

this pretty much sums it up..I dont see myself tracking only some spirited Daily Driving BUT the idea of owning an iconic benchmark vehicle is the only thing pulling me to the M#..Ahhh well I guess I have to make my mind but everyone's opinions have definitley helped!

[Greeney]

I've been researching the F30 basically because I cannot STAND picking up fuel every 215mi. It's insanity, i'm doing two tanks a week at this point.

[gerbs]

Originally Posted by SupremePower3335

I am curious to see if anyone else has made a similar decision and which way they went and why. Barring that I may wait for the F32 - just not sure what it looks like and I am not sure I can wait...


Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Greeney

I've been researching the F30 basically because I cannot STAND picking up fuel every 215mi. It's insanity, i'm doing two tanks a week at this point.

I am coming OUT of an E92 M3 and IN to an F30 335i.

I used to have a 335i and originally went from E92 335i to E92 M3.

The M3 is bulky... And the mileage blows. The best part was the adjustable suspension (EDC) on the M3, and I am fairly confident that's why it was such an easy decision for me to go E92 M3 -> F30 335i. M Adaptive Suspension - woot!

There were other reasons, like the constant electrical issues - but this is obviously very much situational. People have driven the hell out of their M3s and had 0 problems, I was one of the unlucky ones.

Also, once my warranty was up, things popped up from the past which had broken before.. Again, situational, but I was not willing to take the risk.

BMW still earned my business on the F30, I pray this one will be okay, unlike the past two.

For what it's worth - My Fuel Pump exploded 5,000 miles in to my brand spankin new E92 335i. Other than that 0 problems besides some minor stuff (seatbelt pusher snapping in half - whoops! steering wheel plastics flaking off, left side angel eye burning out 3 times in a year, etc.)


I am picking up my F30 over the weekend & will be posting some info from the ex-M3 perspective in another thread if you'd like to keep an eye out.


p.s. - Biggest concern is if they were to ditch the 335i mantra and go for 340i. (Like how they went from 330i to 335i in 2006). I would be sad But given the N55 is still pretty new, I don't think this is on the immediate radar...

[SupremePower3335]

Originally Posted by gerbs

I am picking up my F30 over the weekend & will be posting some info from the ex-M3 perspective in another thread if you'd like to keep an eye out.

Look forward to it

[SPACEMANRICK]

Originally Posted by gerbs

I am coming OUT of an E92 M3 and IN to an F30 335i.

I used to have a 335i and originally went from E92 335i to E92 M3.

The M3 is bulky... And the mileage blows. The best part was the adjustable suspension (EDC) on the M3, and I am fairly confident that's why it was such an easy decision for me to go E92 M3 -> F30 335i. M Adaptive Suspension - woot!

There were other reasons, like the constant electrical issues - but this is obviously very much situational. People have driven the hell out of their M3s and had 0 problems, I was one of the unlucky ones.

Also, once my warranty was up, things popped up from the past which had broken before.. Again, situational, but I was not willing to take the risk.

BMW still earned my business on the F30, I pray this one will be okay, unlike the past two.

For what it's worth - My Fuel Pump exploded 5,000 miles in to my brand spankin new E92 335i. Other than that 0 problems besides some minor stuff (seatbelt pusher snapping in half - whoops! steering wheel plastics flaking off, left side angel eye burning out 3 times in a year, etc.)


I am picking up my F30 over the weekend & will be posting some info from the ex-M3 perspective in another thread if you'd like to keep an eye out.


p.s. - Biggest concern is if they were to ditch the 335i mantra and go for 340i. (Like how they went from 330i to 335i in 2006). I would be sad But given the N55 is still pretty new, I don't think this is on the immediate radar...

I assume the next upgrade for the N55 engine will be to the same power rating as the 2013 BMW 640 which is rated at 315hp and 330 pounds of torque which is an upgrade from the posted 300 hp and 300 pounds of torque from the current 335 but still not nearly as big as the increase from 2006 to 2007 when horsepower increased from 255 to an understated 300 horsepower.

[m630]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I hate this debate, the M3 is a better car, it has a limited slip, that alone makes it better. However, the brakes are in no way better. The only advantage in single braking distances is due to the massively better tires M3's come with than F30's, and repeated braking will favor the better calipers of the F30.

The E9x may be a sharper knife, but thinking it's a race car leaves a lot of other cars out there that must be rocket ships, intergalactic transit or laser beams.

Well sorry to burst the bubble, the M3 may a better car to you, but its not a better car, its a different car for different needs and desires.

F30 has a limited slip too so there goes another arguement.

The M3 is more of a go-kart than race car; the M6 was a race car, a bloated one at that, but a race car pure and simple with the heart and roar of a lion.

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Let's debate that.

I had a E90 M3 6MT from 2008-2010. Great car, 19"wheels plus Pilot Sports. Did trackdays with it.

I now have a F30 Sportline with Adaptive suspension, sportssteering, the 19"with Potenzas( 1.25G through the Sachkurve according to German carmag Sportauto)

The F30 handles the same or even better and goes faster through many bends than the E90 M3(which is a tad heavier) .

About the brakes? The Brembos on the F30 are just better than the OEM M3 brakes. Period. After two laps at Assen Moto GP my M3 brakes were almost on fire. Speed is relative. IRL a F30 is just as fast or faster(335i) but when you floor it the M3 will run away a bit. But that's fine because it has more HP(but not many torque low which I found sometimes irritating)

MPG? No contest. F30.

An M3 is a great great great car. But to say it's/handles 200-300% better is nonsense.

The best part of the M3 is not the V8(I had a E46 M3 back in 2003)imo. It's the limited slip differential...
The V8 is overrated in terms of daily use(low down grunt below 4000rpm doesn't feel powerful, it guzzles gas like no other etc)

Coming from experience of owning (and abusing) one.

Cheers
Robin

I'll agree to disagree with you Robin. The LSD alone makes it a better track car.

I have bagged on several M3 at the track, Zero brake problems. I think the brakes are bad for the 1% of drivers that are actual pros and race for a living. I would say high speed tracks are very different than lower speed tracks so I can see high speed being a possible issue, again at the extreme. Not ever track gets speed on like the 'ring. It also depends on the frequency of braking..anyhow, its not a black and white issue.

The rest of the track guys can change pads, fluid, lines and be done with it. Those changes alone make a easy difference.

I would also say the responsivenes and high rpm revving of the engine allows you to really run out a car hard.

MDM is also fantastic since you can still run a car hard in and out of corners but you wont eat it if you get lazy or stupid on the track.

Any limp problems yet at the track, they are coming. M3 never had a heat problems, ever.

Anyhow, they are 2 different tools. Both excellent tools but both for different types of drivers.

Is it a great day-day car? Nope. But you dont buy an M3 for that reason lets be honest here. Get a Fiat for that.

Anyhow, GL to OP. I can understand not getting and M3. Its not for every driver.

Go to M School for the money you save getting an F30 and bag on BMW's car. 2 days of some of the greatest driving you'll do.

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by SPACEMANRICK

Best, logical, honest comparison I have read.......I think we can all afford the gas but it still must be a pain if you have to fill up your car every 350 km

Yeah I get 350 km tops in the city for a tank. For the price of gas in YVR it would be $100/week. Thats a bad habit that you dont even roll yourself.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by m630

Well sorry to burst the bubble, the M3 may a better car to you, but its not a better car, its a different car for different needs and desires.

F30 has a limited slip too so there goes another arguement.

The M3 is more of a go-kart than race car; the M6 was a race car, a bloated one at that, but a race car pure and simple with the heart and roar of a lion.

Haha, my wife drives a car with the eDiff, it's not a real, mechanical limited slip.

The M3 is not like a go cart, drive an Elise, an Ariel, or even an FD RX7 if you want something closer, but a 3600 pound car is not anything like a go cart. It's a big, comfy cruiser, much more akin to a GT than sports car. Again, if any M Car is like a race car, than a Z06, GT2 or a Fezza must be an interplanetary space ship.

[m630]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Haha, my wife drives a car with the eDiff, it's not a real, mechanical limited slip.

The M3 is not like a go cart, drive an Elise, an Ariel, or even an FD RX7 if you want something closer, but a 3600 pound car is not anything like a go cart. It's a big, comfy cruiser, much more akin to a GT than sports car. Again, if any M Car is like a race car, than a Z06, GT2 or a Fezza must be an interplanetary space ship.

sematincs, as long as the diff is active thats all that matters, everything is electronic these days, what can you do

my cuz has the M3 and Im always in it and its anything but comfy, its tight and spartan, after an hour in that car you want to shoot yourself. When he gets into the M6 he shakes his head and cant believe how small and cramed the M3 is. All depends on your perspective ofcourse. The M6 sounds and feels like a race car which was my point, thought of course its no track rat, there are real race cars for such purposes. However, on the street and not on the drag strip, there is almost nothing faster than an S85 M6 or M5 in motion, they are unstoppable to 200+ which is more than anyone ever needs.

For now though, my upcoming 335i will hold its own especially after a tune, and then when the M4 GC comes out, I'll move back to the ///Marquee

[SupremePower3335]

Originally Posted by m630

my cuz has the M3 and Im always in it and its anything but comfy, its tight and spartan, after an hour in that car you want to shoot yourself.

Is the M3 that bad of a DD

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by SupremePower3335

Is the M3 that bad of a DD

No, not in my experience. If you're coming from a 1er, it's actually more comfortable. The E90 is more cramped in the back seats than the F30, but it's a pretty small difference. Go drive both, it shouldn't be hard to find a decent example of both.

As for eDiff's, no, they are not the same thing, or even close. Even the McLaren MP4-12C (I feel dumber just typing that, they need a name) suffers for not having a mechanical limited slip. Every M Car has always had one, and probably always will, and even the Cadillac ATS has one available. BMW's just being cheap on the 3er.

M630, the S85 is a fantastic motor, but the S65 is no slouch either, as they're based on the same design. But both have always struck me as terrific motors in search of a smaller, lighter chassis.

[m630]

Originally Posted by SupremePower3335

Is the M3 that bad of a DD

Not at all, you just have to understand what you are buying, it's not just a more powerful 3er, it's much more race carlike, and you have to want to drive a car as such each day or you may be disappointed. Also on longer hauls it can get cramped and somewhat uncomfortable. Its the same with the M6, you have to push it to enjoy it and that means driving hard which after 4 years was enough for me, though the size and additional luxury made long trips a breeze by comparison....