[PhilH]

Originally Posted by the_phew

I remain unconvinced. Zero results on Cars.com for 3-series with Merino, 23 results for 4-series with Merino. Several posts on here of U.S. members with Merino in their 4-series, none for 3-series (that I could find).

I agree with you. I did a bunch of searches on bimmerpost and google (last night in particular) and found a few people in the process of ordering leather dash or merino leather for a 3 Series, but they mostly came back and said their dealership was unsuccessful in placing the order. The rest said they were placing the order but then never followed up and said they were able to or ever posted pictures of their cars.

The searches on cars.com and autotrader bear this out, you can get these on the 4 Series and not the 3 Series.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by PhilH

I agree with you. I did a bunch of searches on bimmerpost and google (last night in particular) and found a few people in the process of ordering leather dash or merino leather for a 3 Series, but they mostly came back and said their dealership was unsuccessful in placing the order. The rest said they were placing the order but then never followed up and said they were able to or ever posted pictures of their cars.

The searches on cars.com and autotrader bear this out, you can get these on the 4 Series and not the 3 Series.

Indeed. Although leather dash seems to be allowed on any 3/4 series (including 320i).

[BM57]

Originally Posted by PhilH

I did a search on Autotrader using keywords like nutmeg, and golden (for golden brown individual leather) and found a few 4 Series around the country on dealer lots with individual leather and leather dash options. However, I understand that BMW Individual options in the US are for the 4 Series, and not the 3 Series.

This one at BMW of Seattle has a leather dash, nutmeg extended leather and the exterior color is Citrin Black Metallic: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...19708206&Log=0

I can't go on autotrader.com website for some reason. When I go to the site, I get the following message:
You don't have permission to access "http://www.autotrader.com/" on this server.

Anyone else have this problem?

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by BM57

I can't go on autotrader.com website for some reason. When I go to the site, I get the following message:
You don't have permission to access "http://www.autotrader.com/" on this server.

Anyone else have this problem?

I can get on, but the site is really unpredictable. Response time is universally slow, saved searches don't work right, I get weird returns on the searches that do work. The website is a disaster.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Audi S models compete with the M-performance (i.e. M235i) lineup from BMW, not the M models. That's what RS is for.

The S4 is price-competitive with the 340xi; I think it's perfectly reasonable to compare the seats directly. That picture I posted is from an S3, which is roughly 328i-level pricing. And AFAIK, you can't get Merino on a 3-series in the states, just 4 series and above. The fact is, Audi offers bespoke seats on $40k-$50k cars, but you have to spend $65k+ to get them in a BMW.

M Performance are mainly dressed up versions of regular BMW's. The M235 gets a bit more power and sport suspension but is otherwise a 235. The M suspension 3 series is cosmetic only. The S series Audi's are a full level above the A series. BMW has no equivalent to the S4. And Audi does not import the RS cars to the US.

[DJ Rocc]

Well I love my BMW Interior!! Perfect Blend of Sport, Comfort, and Luxury!! We have both BMW and AUDI in our family, my wife drives a 2016 A3 Sportback, and my brother a 2016 X1. And while shopping around for both of them we did a lot of comparisons with Interior Trims etc. And while being very good, the Audi's Interior was always second to the BMW's. The actual knobs etc, did not have the "quality" feel as the BMW's.

I can't really speak about Older model comparisons, just newer ones.

The only thing with the BMWs, just wished they gave you a bit more vertical room on the dead pedal/footrest area. I wear size 11 shoes, and it is a bit tight, I can't imagine someone with bigger feet would be too comfortable?

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

And Audi does not import the RS cars to the US.

I see an RS5 every day on my commute.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

M Performance are mainly dressed up versions of regular BMW's. The M235 gets a bit more power and sport suspension but is otherwise a 235. The M suspension 3 series is cosmetic only. The S series Audi's are a full level above the A series. BMW has no equivalent to the S4. And Audi does not import the RS cars to the US.

You can add the performance parts to your M Sport model. This gives it a few extra ponies. Also when configured properly the M sport 335 for instance includes an extra radiator for track days.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

M Performance are mainly dressed up versions of regular BMW's. The M235 gets a bit more power and sport suspension but is otherwise a 235. The M suspension 3 series is cosmetic only. The S series Audi's are a full level above the A series. BMW has no equivalent to the S4. And Audi does not import the RS cars to the US.

We do get the RS7.

The S4 is definitely aimed at 335/340 buyers. They may not compare directly, I agree, but they perform similarly, and are priced as such.

[paul e]

So where does the 340i fit against Audi then?

I shopped the S4 directly against the 340i as there is no other comparable car in Audi's lineup - they don't bother to offer a six in the standard A4.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by paul e

So where does the 340i fit against Audi then?

I shopped the S4 directly against the 340i as there is no other comparable car in Audi's lineup - they don't bother to offer a six in the standard A4.

They compete pretty directly, although less so now that the B9 S4 no longer offers a 6MT.

Each car has its pros and cons (weight/weight distribution, RWD vs AWD, lease value, interior, etc), but the fact is that Audi offers fancy torque vectoring diffs and bespoke seats in their ~$50-$60k sports sedan and BMW doesn't.

I would never consider a 340i because it's got basically the same interior and open diff as my $34k 320i. The extra ~$15-20k goes to all kinds of stuff (more power, standard Premium pack, better sounds, bigger brakes, etc), but I think for that kind of cost differential it should at least include upgraded seats and a mechanical LSD if not torque vectoring.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

The S series Audi's are a full level above the A series. BMW has no equivalent to the S4.

I think Audi's own positioning of lines is just a little different than BMW's.

The A4 compares more directly to the 328 than the 340. The A4 and 328 are both "near-luxury" sport sedans with 4 cylinder engines and 0-60 times in the mid 5s, both priced in the low $50s MSRP with options. The 340 and S4 each add 6 cylinder engines, more performance, and something like $10K in MSRP to the equation.

In that way the 340 and S4 are directly comparable. Audi arguably provides more performance capability with the S4 than BMW does with the 340 - combining AWD with a sport differential and a sport-tuned mechanical suspension are examples. That suggests that Audi wants to brand the S4 as a serious sport sedan more than BMW wants for the 340. But I still think the same buyers cross-shop the cars. BMW's decision to use the M-Sport package in a solely cosmetic way is unfortunate.

Interestingly, BMW seems to use the M brand much more aggressively than Audi uses the RS brand. Even apart from the fact that there's no RS4 in the US right now, I observe that RS is more of a niche line within Audi, mostly unnoticeable to non-enthusiasts.

Then, to confuse everything further, performance levels of the A6/A7 are notably superior to the 535 yet not quite equal to the 550, and the A6/A7 have a lot of the same driveline components that appear in the S4/S5.

Confusing, but fun.

[cptcrunch]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Sorry, but that's inaccurate. You can find the option code for BMW Individual paint, leather, or trim and add it to a build order, even though you can't find those things on the "build your own" part of the BMW USA website. Several posters in here have done so. It's unusual, and it costs more than the Dakota leather, but it doesn't run the price up quite that far. Personally, I'd rather do that than buy an overpriced VW.

Merino leather in the F30 is a sore subject with me because I am buying a 340i for ED in April and I was not able to add it to my build. I went to my dealer to have Merino Amaro Brown added with the ZAP5 code and my CA said they would look into it. Sales manager contacted BMWNA and BMWNA said no-go. The BMWNA Individual Manager that my dealership talked to confirmed that no 3 series have Merino leather in the states. I guess it could be possible if you wanted to spend loads of money, but that has yet to be seen.

I'm not sure why the 4 series can get Merino leather and the 3 series can't, it shouldn't be that hard to make it available to both models. Oh well

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by WilliCO

I think Audi's own positioning of lines is just a little different than BMW's.

The A4 compares more directly to the 328 than the 340. The A4 and 328 are both "near-luxury" sport sedans with 4 cylinder engines and 0-60 times in the mid 5s, both priced in the low $50s MSRP with options. The 340 and S4 each add 6 cylinder engines, more performance, and something like $10K in MSRP to the equation.

In that way the 340 and S4 are directly comparable. Audi arguably provides more performance capability with the S4 than BMW does with the 340 - combining AWD with a sport differential and a sport-tuned mechanical suspension are examples. That suggests that Audi wants to brand the S4 as a serious sport sedan more than BMW wants for the 340. But I still think the same buyers cross-shop the cars. BMW's decision to use the M-Sport package in a solely cosmetic way is unfortunate.

Interestingly, BMW seems to use the M brand much more aggressively than Audi uses the RS brand. Even apart from the fact that there's no RS4 in the US right now, I observe that RS is more of a niche line within Audi, mostly unnoticeable to non-enthusiasts.

Then, to confuse everything further, performance levels of the A6/A7 are notably superior to the 535 yet not quite equal to the 550, and the A6/A7 have a lot of the same driveline components that appear in the S4/S5.

Confusing, but fun.

I guess there are different ways of looking at this. Mine would be that Audi no longer offers a competitor to the 340. There used to be an A4 with a V6 engine and standard suspension. The S4 comes standard with very sporty seats and when it came out a much more powerful engine that the I6 turbo BMW offering. The S4 also has the other features you mention. I would rank the status of the cars as follows:

328i=A4 Quattro
340i<S4<M3

If you want to push the comparison, the S4 is equal to the configuration of the E90 335is. There is no F30 340i equivalent.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by the_phew

I see an RS5 every day on my commute.

Look on the Audi USA website. They no longer offer the RS5. They do offer an RS7 though. In general Audi in the USA does not have cars equivalent to the BMW M series. That is the point.

[Denny Swift]

Coincidently, I dropped my Boxster off for service yesterday and was given a 2016 A4 loaner. It had the e-line interior. Before my butt even hit the seat (the flat, hard, boring seat, that you sit on rather than in), I remarked at what a joke the interior was compared to the 435 interior. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the Audi looked and felt like a Honda to me. It was cold and sexless. Everything looked like it was designed for a proctologist's waiting room, yet every magazine seems to hold Audi interiors as the benchmark. To me, BMW interiors are far superior in every way. I just don't get it.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Look on the Audi USA website. They no longer offer the RS5. They do offer an RS7 though. In general Audi in the USA does not have cars equivalent to the BMW M series. That is the point.

Since VAG has Porsche, they probably don't see the need to market track-focused offerings under the Audi umbrella.

I think consumers benefit though, because the S-cars are much more focused "performance street cars" than BMW's muddled sub-M-branding. With BMW, you can have a vanilla premium sedan (base 3-series), or a premium sedan with stiffer springs and cosmetic "sport" bits and M logos (M-sport Pack), or a full on track machine (M3).

The "M-Performance" lineup was supposed to bridge the gap between ZMP and M-cars, but it hasn't really materialized. Once you cross the ~$50k threshold with Merc (C450 AMG) and Audi (S4), you open up fancy diffs and bespoke one-piece seatbacks. BMW doesn't give you anything special until you jump up to a full M-car. If either the C450 AMG or B9 S4 offered a manual transmission, I wouldn't give BMW a second thought, because both of those cars just feel "special". The 340i feels like my 320i with more power.

[Michael Schott]

Agree. Your 340 is a more powerful 320 with more standard equipment. BMW at least lets you option the car to make it sporty up to a point. Not Audi S sporty unless you order port installed M Performance options.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by the_phew

The "M-Performance" lineup was supposed to bridge the gap between ZMP and M-cars, but it hasn't really materialized. Once you cross the ~$50k threshold with Merc (C450 AMG) and Audi (S4), you open up fancy diffs and bespoke one-piece seatbacks. BMW doesn't give you anything special until you jump up to a full M-car.

Agreed. In this sense BMW may be a victim of its own pricing strategy. They've managed to nudge 340 pricing so near M3 pricing that there remains no room for an M340i between. Even though I'm confident one would sell extremely well, especially in xDrive trim.

Come to it, an xDrive M340i would be a great idea. It would allow BMW to fend off AWD on the M3 a while longer, and they could actually allow the car's price to overlap the M3 a little more, as it would be more or less a non-competitive offering. It could use the engine in the M2 in oder to differentiate from the 340.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by WilliCO

Agreed. In this sense BMW may be a victim of its own pricing strategy. They've managed to nudge 340 pricing so near M3 pricing that there remains no room for an M340i between. Even though I'm confident one would sell extremely well, especially in xDrive trim.

Come to it, an xDrive M340i would be a great idea. It would allow BMW to fend off AWD on the M3 a while longer, and they could actually allow the car's price to overlap the M3 a little more, as it would be more or less a non-competitive offering. It could use the engine in the M2 in oder to differentiate from the 340.

There's about $18K between the base of a 340i and an M3. Of course you can load one to over $60K but you can load an M3 to over $80K. I think the reason BMW has not introduced a higher performance F30 to compete with the S is the size of the market.

[metallicpea]

It is a lot harder to load an M3 than a 340.

M3 has almost everything I would order built in, so you could easily argue they are more like 13k apart in sporty option level.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

I think the reason BMW has not introduced a higher performance F30 to compete with the S is the size of the market.

That doesn't account for the 335is, though, unless the market has changed.

I think what you'd look at is the typical MSRP of cars ordered by dealers on spec, because that is the most educated point of view on market pricing for the model.

Autotrader makes this easy. It shows 801 new 340i models on dealer lots nationally at an average MSRP of $54,963. There are 153 new M3s out there, average MSRP $77,276.

So I may have proved myself wrong. I imagine 340s will discount more than M3s will, but that's a $21,000 difference in MSRP averages. Definitely room for a model in between.

Bring on the M340i!