[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Seraphblade@sg

I have some queries, how can I reach you through email?

PM sent.

Originally Posted by S4NoMore

Agree, I would hope for better transparency from Dinan. 268/287 is, I assume, an approximate crank power figure taken from the stock dyno run - we all know these motors are underrated from the factory, so this is not a big deal, and at least they aren't claiming a delta from 240 in their "gain" numbers on the chart. This and the way they said "piggybacks are bad" only to release their own piggyback solution is not helping their image, at least in my mind.

The intention was not to mislead at all. The factory ratings being listed were simply done to acknowledge the underrating in the chart below. The data was/is all there but in hindsight I see how it could be misconstrued if the viewer simply looked at the top and did not consult the associated data tables. That said I have adjusted the website and the associated graphs to be as clear as possible. Dinan believes in being as transparent as possible and is definitely not trying to hide/misconstrue anything.

As far as the "piggybacks are bad" comment. Steve Dinan himself has addressed the point you are referencing...

"We recently saw your post regarding our new Turbotronics project and wanted to clarify a few points to make sure your readers have the correct information. I stand by my comments on "Tech tip Tuesday". Even though we are making an ECU we are still believe software has superior performance and reliability when compared to an ad on ECU. Having said that the new Bosch ECU has proven more difficult to crack than previous models so we have been forced to go the ECU route. BTW this is Dinan's 16th Turbotronics ECU because we used to make them a long time ago but when we got very good at software we went away from them because of the obvious advantages.

“Tech Tip Tuesday” was also referring to the existing piggy back boxes on the market. Our goal wasn’t to imply that a piggyback box wasn’t a viable tuning solution, but rather the current ones lack sophistication in which is why they make less power, have more drivability issues, are more prone to setting faults and are not emissions legal. I also mentioned that a box would have to be much more sophisticated in order to work properly and not risk any damage or malfunctions with the vehicle long-term.

The reason our software is more expensive than current piggyback systems on the market is the level of work and research that is required to “crack” BMW’s factory computers, the additional cost of the 4 year 50k mile warranty and emissions certification. The cost our R&D, warranty and emission testing when compared to manufacturing the piggy back boxes I see on the market it is more likely they are making more money than Dinan soit is not about money as the person implied it's about doing it right. Most people assume that BMW gives us complete access to the computers, but that is not the case.

We have a team of 5 engineers that do nothing but read through every line of code on each ECU to make sure that all of our software allows the car to function properly, doesn’t interfere with other electronics and keeps factory system safeguards in place.

As far as the new “Turbotronics” units are concerned, (still in development) they essentially are more than a piggy back box they are a powerful ECU that has many more capabilities that the existing piggy back boxes. To help you understanding the additional capabilities as I said in "TECH TIP Tuesday" the existing boxes send a an adjusted signal to the BMWECU telling it he boost is too low and the ECU then raises the boost to what it thinks is the correct value as does ours. This false value creates errors in Fuel mixture and ignition timing. This can causesmore faults, high catalyst inlet temperatures and a loss of power.In addition when you increase power exhaust temperature will increaseand this must be countered with a slightly richer mixture. Our ECU will have the capability of setting a richer target lambda (fuel mixture) as well as correcting short term trip which is the difference between target and scheduled fuel mixture just to mention a couple of it's capabilities. By matching these two correctly we can reduce knock sensor activity which will make smother performance,protect the catalyst, increase power and allow us to make it emissions legal.

We have a lot of exciting new product in the works for N55 powered cars along with products being created for the M235i. Keep an eye on our social media channels for announcements on sales, new products and more of our Tech Tip Tuesday series.

Thanks again for your time and we hope this is helpful. If you’re interested, we would love to have you out to the facility to see our operation first hand.

Sincerely,
Steve Dinan"

Originally Posted by S4NoMore

By the way Dinan, I went to your F30 335i tuner page to compare the dyno charts and it's showing the 328i chart image FYI.

Fixed. Thanks.

[S4NoMore]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The intention was not to mislead at all. The factory ratings being listed were simply done to acknowledge the underrating in the chart below. The data was/is all there but in hindsight I see how it could be misconstrued if the viewer simply looked at the top and did not consult the associated data tables. That said I have adjusted the website and the associated graphs to be as clear as possible. Dinan believes in being as transparent as possible and is definitely not trying to hide/misconstrue anything.

Understood. Glad to see you're able to respond quickly and adjust that presentation, I do think it's worthwhile to clarify for potential customers. Taking it a step further would be to distinguish how that 268 hp was measured, or at least to offer your direct measurements (from the wheels or however you dyno the engine/car) along with the crank estimation. APR does this on their tuning product pages and I think it goes a long way to put minds at ease and leave no questions unanswered.

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

As far as the "piggybacks are bad" comment. Steve Dinan himself has addressed the point you are referencing...

Good info there, I hadn't come across that response. I'm not sure if the piggyback "other guy" doesn't or can't adjust targets like lambda or timing, but "they" don't address it anywhere that I've read so it's a mystery to me at the moment, while Dinan is clear. It's a little rich for my blood, but I understand the liability that needs to be protected against with these turbo motors.

[Dippydo]

A couple of questions:

-Since it is a piggyback, do we have to have it installed at a Dinan dealer to have the warranty? 1.5hrs seems like a long time to install a piggyback.

-Can you share how much is the extra boost is? 3psi? 4psi?

-Do you have different map options like other piggybacks? Or is it a one map setting?

-Will it turn off the CEL light for those that run catless down pipes?

-Will your warranty be extended if the car is CPO? Or does it just cover the 4yr/50,000 mile warranty?

Just curious as the information is vague still on the capabilities. So glad you guys finally came out with a tune for those of us that don't like to gamble on a 25k engine..

[T_flare]

is there a link where we can check when our cars were made?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

-Since it is a piggyback, do we have to have it installed at a Dinan dealer to have the warranty? 1.5hrs seems like a long time to install a piggyback.

No, it does not have to be installed by a Dinan Dealer however it is STRONGLY recommended. This is mainly due to the ability to troubleshoot if an issue arises. If not installed by a Dinan dealer we would ship a pre-programmed box directly to the end user. The end-user would also need to be able to have the ability to clear codes during install; another potential reason to have a dealer install it. Of course we would also not be able to warrant/guarantee the installation itself if done by unauthorized vendor but the product warranty would still be in effect.

The 1.5 hrs of install at a dealer includes running the harness, any potential troubleshooting, as well as programming as the dealers boxes are "blank" and are programmed specifically to each model in the field. Running the harness is not simply plugging into a few select sensors but running a full ~6 foot harness around the engine bay so that melds flawlessly with the BMW elements surrounding it.

Originally Posted by Dippydo

-Do you have different map options like other piggybacks? Or is it a one map setting?

One map setting at the outset but I know on other platforms there was intentions to have a race gas map and perhaps other maps as well in addition to having the additional stages be accessible. I can only assume this was going to be done on all platforms but that is purely speculation. This whole topic ties more into the bluetooth functionality and the apps that are being developed so the end user can change things on the fly via iphone/android. This information in general has been held pretty close to the vest on the engineering side of the building so I really don't have any concrete information unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Dippydo

-Will it turn off the CEL light for those that run catless down pipes?

No. Our device does not have code clearing capabilities for the simple reason that our box does not generate any codes/faults to begin with. Exception being the one instance during install listed above. We maintain all emission parameters / safety precautions enlisted by BMW, a catless DP goes directly against those principles. That said, a DP will still work just fine, but a CEL will be present.

Originally Posted by Dippydo

-Will your warranty be extended if the car is CPO? Or does it just cover the 4yr/50,000 mile warranty?

We match the new car 4yr/50k warranty, so you are covered by both BMW and Dinan. If the vehicle is out of the new car warranty a 2yr/unlimited mileage warranty takes it place. You can check our website for details on each of the warranties.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by T_flare

is there a link where we can check when our cars were made?

www.realoem.com

Click on 'enter' towards the bottom center of the page and then simply enter in the last 7 digits of the VIN. That will give you most specs for your vehicle that you may want to know. It should also be listed on the sticker inside the drivers side door along the pillar unless that location has changed and I am just not aware of it.

[slmdgee]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

www.realoem.com

Click on 'enter' towards the bottom center of the page and then simply enter in the last 7 digits of the VIN. That will give you most specs for your vehicle that you may want to know. It should also be listed on the sticker inside the drivers side door along the pillar unless that location has changed and I am just not aware of it.

Hey how much do you think this will cost?

[Dippydo]

Thanks for the info Dinan guy. You have finally answered many of our prayers...LOL... Just buying it for the warranty peace of mind even if it is exactly like the others is worth it, but from it sounds yours is a step above.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

It's planned. Patience... 😊

Do you think the power figures will be the same for the 320i? Also will you guys be coming out with a single exit exhaust that works with our bumpers?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Do you think the power figures will be the same for the 320i? Also will you guys be coming out with a single exit exhaust that works with our bumpers?

Since it is the same engine it seems reasonable to assume so however we have not seen a 320i in the shop yet so there may be some other factor that limits the overall power output. Won't really know till we get a development vehicle in to test.

Not sure if the exhaust reference was aimed at the 328 or the 320 so I will answer both. There are no plans to develop an exhaust for the 320 but if enough demand is shown than I can make a plea to Steve that it is a viable product. There is also no plans to create a different exhaust then what is currently offered for the 328i.

[f30kid]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

It's planned. Patience... 😊

Ummm these motors are 2.5 years old - how much patience is needed

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by f30kid

Ummm these motors are 2.5 years old - how much patience is needed

Touche.

[soopaman15]

Glad to see tune has been released by DINAN after much anticipated wait. I will be in contact in the near future to purchase. Will provide review after some spirited driving. Do you know who is a DINAN recommended installer for the Washington, DC area? By chance is BMW of Rockville recommended?

[Safety2213]

What are the octane requirements? What happens if someone puts in bad gas?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by soopaman15

Glad to see tune has been released by DINAN after much anticipated wait. I will be in contact in the near future to purchase. Will provide review after some spirited driving. Do you know who is a DINAN recommended installer for the Washington, DC area? By chance is BMW of Rockville recommended?

BMW of Rockville is not a dealer but the closest BMW dealer is BMW of Silver Springs (Was Tischer BMW). Closer yet is BMW Excluservice which is a great independent in Rockville.

Originally Posted by BobbyP

What are the octane requirements? What happens if someone puts in bad gas?

93 is what the tune was developed for although you can run 91 or higher. The tune is just not tweaked for various fuel ratings. IN the future we will be developing race octane maps (100 octane) but that is a bit off yet.

[BeachsideF30]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

We have a video crew coming in on Tuesday of next week. I have been promised the 328i will be available (it's gone again currently) for that so the exhaust clip should be posted by mid-next week. And as stated above the N20 tunes have begun to be released. This current iteration is a very limited release since it only applies to mechanical wastegate vehicles but the electronic wastegate version will be out soon and I would imagine, hold very similar numbers (312 HP / 330 lb-ft of torque).

Did the film crew ever get the video?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by BeachsideF30

Did the film crew ever get the video?

The project got delayed a day so we started shooting video on a variety of things yesterday and are continuing all day today. We will get the exhaust clips filmed today with a bunch of other car footage we are shooting today. Will also provide cabin noise as well since lack of drone is kind of what we hang our hat on in addition to the normal drive-by and what not.

You will actually be seeing a lot of quality (and technical) video coming out of Dinan in the near future. With a lot of answers to a variety of questions straight from the man himself, Steve Dinan. Definitely keep an eye out. That said if you haven't seen it yet, Roads and Rides did a great synopsis video of the Dinan philosophy in general recently. I would encourage everyone to give it a look if you were ever curious as to how we tune in general terms. It can be viewed here if interested.

[BeachsideF30]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The project got delayed a day so we started shooting video on a variety of things yesterday and are continuing all day today. We will get the exhaust clips filmed today with a bunch of other car footage we are shooting today. Will also provide cabin noise as well since lack of drone is kind of what we hang our hat on in addition to the normal drive-by and what not.

You will actually be seeing a lot of quality (and technical) video coming out of Dinan in the near future. With a lot of answers to a variety of questions straight from the man himself, Steve Dinan. Definitely keep an eye out. That said if you haven't seen it yet, Roads and Rides did a great synopsis video of the Dinan philosophy in general recently. I would encourage everyone to give it a look if you were ever curious as to how we tune in general terms. It can be viewed here if interested.

Thanks for the update, looking forward to seeing the future videos. The Roads and Rides video was great.

[Dinan_Engineering]

A conversation has been developing on the M5 thread that Steve felt the need to respond to and explain some things about the DINANTRONICS Performance Tuner. Thought it may be pertinent to those over on this forum as well in case you were interested in a more technical explanation of Dinan's tune.

You can read the entire thread if you want but the synopsis is that a user posted his review of the DINANTRONICS performance tuner and Steve Dinan took notice and felt the need to explain why the reviewer noticed the changes he did. Link to the last page of the thread below.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...1008125&page=8

The straight to the point meat however you can read below...

I was fully expecting the BMS set at 3.5 on 93 octane to be as fast or faster than the stage 1 Dinan . I have fully defended the BMS on several occasions on the forum and it was effective at mKing my car faster . I decided to switch because of throttle modulation issues I noticed on track and the strip with the BMS and a limp mode issue on track from high EGT . It was apparent from when I looked at the harness for the Dinan and BMS the difference between the products technically are far more than I thought . The Dinan ECU has factory looms that tie directly into each banks ECU . It does far more than fool the TMAP sensor like the BMS and looks it , really quality parts . I expected quality equipment what I didn't expect was the Dinan stage 1 IS FASTER significantly than the BMS set to 3.5 on 93 octane . The BMS makes more tq down around 3 k but that came with slight delay then tq surge especially when trying to modulate the throttle or coming off boost, it also would cause a delay in mid rpm shifts in 1st and 2nd gear . The Dinan has stock throttle response , the DCT shifts instantly again in ANY situation and the car pulls significantly harder than the BMS above 5k RPM . It's enough where it is very obvious that the car is faster( > 30 hp at 6k ) .I am fully pleased with it so far and its worth it to me just for the increased drivability and safety alone . (10/10 DCT function and throttle modulation for the Dinan, really worlds different between the two ) When the weather cools off again to a neutral DA I will do full testing in my level location as numbers will be the definitive word .

Steve Dinan took notice of your post and wanted to address it directly. He thought a more thorough explanation of what you were experiencing was in order. His response is below.

"Thank you for noticing the smother operation of the Dinan ECU when compared to the competition. I thought a technical explanation of why it is so smooth might be of interest. Just to clarify the reason why you are experiencing better throttle response in general and ultimately what feels to be “more” power is based on the complexity and better control of engine tuning parameters of the DINANTRONICS system as a whole.

The DINANTRONICS Performance Tuner is MUCH more than just intercepting signals as some seem to think. There are more correction factors and calculations going on in the background of our box than anything else we have seen on the market thus far. We compensate for every necessary variable so the factory ECU is not fighting itself trying to correct mismatched variables and ultimately robbing you of power.

When Dinan is done tuning on the dyno we then go out on the road and do extensive tuning to improve performance. The road environment is different! You have better cooling on the engine, intercooler as well as more ram air. This results in better cylinder filling (more pressure in the cylinder) and requires slightly less boost to avoid excessive detonation. When you are done tuning on the road the car accelerates faster but will show a lower number on the dyno. We believe we are selling acceleration not dyno numbers.

Our numbers on a dyno may not be the max numbers out there but there is a reason. If we were to add that extra boost that other companies run, the engine will be into the knock control system so much that you can feel the correction it is making. In addition the other units on the market do not do fuel correction they rely on the O2 sensor and knock control system to drag the mixture to the correct level. The problem with this is when you change gears it takes some time for the factory ECU to determine what this correction is; resulting in a flat spot until it figures it out. This is what you were feeling. The Dinan ECU has advanced fuel control features that add fuel to the engine so we are not relying on the factory ECU to compensate for the lack of fuel. We also have a feature that adds fuel only during gear changes to quench detonation that occurs from the spike in load as a result of the gear change. The better fuel control provides dramatically better drivability. This higher level of tuning for the road and lack of pauses on gear changes make the Dinan car faster even if you measure a lower number on the dyno. Even if more boost is a little faster what good is it if the car has bad drivability."

[MyFragileHalogen]

Will the Dinan tune offer a top speed delimiter function in the future?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

Will the Dinan tune offer a top speed delimiter function in the future?

We are working on that functionality but it remains to be seen if it will be possible to do it through the existing connections on the performance tuner. It may in fact require an additional interface / connectors but only time will tell.

[Burnt C6]

thanks for all the info "Dinan" I'm getting the exhaust as soon as my BMW dealer calls me back this week. As soon as the DinanTronics comes out for my 2014 it will be going on I don't care what the wife says.