[dude987]

Currently running all season 225/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position on a F30 335i xDrive. It performs relatively well in dry cold road conditions. The handling in wet road conditions is not as good as the summer tires. The handling capability in snow is just sub-standard. Generally disappointed with the overall winter handling capabilities. Definitely would not recommend these tires for anyone who encounters snow during the winter season. It handles poorly in an all wheel xDrive much less on a two wheel drive. I would sell it if I though I could get anything reasonable for it. That's not likely so unfortunately I'll have to live with it for another 50,000 miles or so.

I know this OP will get inundated with the virtues of winter snow tires. But before I'm tarred and feathered, let me just say that my experience with a Lexus RX300 with all season tires (albiet a different type of tires) has been nothing but phenomenal. It is nearly bullet proof. It has to be pushed to extreme limits before reaching its threshold.

I will definitely get winter snow tires next time when opportunity permits.

//

Update 2 Jun 2013:

Just completed a road trip through Grossglockner High Alpine Road in Austria.

I google searched multiple reviews giving this RE970AS rave reviews about how good the tire performs. I gotta say that I am disillusioned with the overall performance of these tires. During periods of moderate to heavy rains, the tires were hydroplaning like it was going out of style. This on an AWD F30 335i??? Other lesser cars were flying by without any hydroplaning problems. It performs poorly on snow and wet conditions. The only time it performs moderately well is under perfect dry and warm conditions. I've been driving for over 20 years and have never experienced tires this bad. I on the verge of getting rid of these tires to get a new set. Very disappointed and a waste of money.

Ciao.

[sean10mm]

My experience with the previous version of that tire (RE960AS Pole Position) on a different car was terrible in the snow as well. Barely better than a summer tire - I mean genuinely scary while creeping around in 1/2" of snow.

I ran into some unexpected snow/slush/ice with my current car with the factory Pirelli P7 Cinturato all season RFT and it did fine, nothing like a snow tire but way better than the RE960AS. You can't fly around like you can on snow tires, but as long as you're careful about cornering speeds and allow for longer braking distances they're perfectly fine in lighter stuff.

Apparently the Continental ExtremeContact DWS is a really good all-season tire for snow, but I've never tried them.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by sean10mm

Apparently the Continental ExtremeContact DWS is a really good all-season tire for snow, but I've never tried them.

Conti DWS is almost as good as some performance winter tires. They're the main reason why I bought them. Tire Rack ratings:

Conti DWS
Light Snow: 8.4
Deep Snow: 7.6
Ice: 7.3


Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serier II
Light Snow: 8.6
Deep Snow: 7.6
Ice: 7.8

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by alex2364

Conti DWS is almost as good as some performance winter tires. They're the main reason why I bought them. Tire Rack ratings:

Conti DWS
Light Snow: 8.4
Deep Snow: 7.6
Ice: 7.3


Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serier II
Light Snow: 8.6
Deep Snow: 7.6
Ice: 7.8

I have these tires and they are a great all around performance tire with an awesome ride and price.

[DangerousTacos]

I've had Conti DWS tires on two cars now, I swear by them.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by dude987

Currently running all season 225/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position on a F30 335i xDrive. It performs relatively well in dry cold road conditions. The handling in wet road conditions is not as good as the summer tires. The handling capability in snow is just sub-standard. Generally disappointed with the overall winter handling capabilities. Definitely would not recommend these tires for anyone who encounters snow during the winter season. It handles poorly in an all wheel xDrive much less on a two wheel drive. I would sell it if I though I could get anything reasonable for it. That's not likely so unfortunately I'll have to live with it for another 50,000 miles or so.

I know this OP will get inundated with the virtues of winter snow tires. But before I'm tarred and feathered, let me just say that my experience with a Lexus RX300 with all season tires (albiet a different type of tires) has been nothing but phenomenal. It is nearly bullet proof. It has to be pushed to extreme limits before reaching its threshold.

I will definitely get winter snow tires next time when opportunity permits.

This is a major reason why I returned the RE970's within the 30 day return period. After I saw the tread in person I suspected that they wouldn't be acceptable for even light snow use. I did some more reading on TR's website and luckily there were reviews of this tire in snow conditions, and the comments weren't pretty.

The 970's were quiet enough and they did have better than usual steering response for AS tires. But, they felt heavy and crashed into road imperfections nearly as bad as the OEM RFT's. If you check their specs they are actually quite heavy physically, nearly as heavy as the RFT's.
I actually lost 1mpg during the 350 or so miles I drove on them.

I'm very surprised at the praise TR gave these tires. But, they had only tested them in warmer dry and wet conditions.
For an AS tire that only tells less than half the story of how they actually perform in ALL seasons road conditions. TR needs to update their review of this tire. Seems that Bridgestone designed these tires to better compete with summer tires and simply adding components to keep the rubber pliable in cold temps. Yet they missed on the tread design and sipe'ing for real AS use and control.

I had great experience with Conti DWS tires on my 135i so I decided to go with what worked for me in the past. I was initially concerned that the DWS would soften initial steering response as the steering in the F30 is already kind of soft. So I did what worked with the 135i, I upped the tire pressure by 5psi all around, and actually the steering response feels as good as the RE970's, which TR praised for having great steering response.
You and I drive in the same area on the same roads and I've driven my 335i in the snow we've already had. The DWS performed just fine. I had good traction for acceleration and turning, and more importantly braking was good, controlled, and very safe.

Like you I fully understand the capabilities of snow/winter tires.
But, we don't get that much snow around here, and snow/winter tires would actually be a negative on ride quality, MPG, wear, and handling.
AS tires are the better choice for this area, but they have to be real and good AS tires. The DWS are exceptional in that regard, especially in cold and wet/damp conditions where they do great in.

I am considering trying a set of the newer winter sport tires, which claim to be in between real snow tires and AS tires. In warmer winter weather they retain good ride quality, and don't get too squishy keeping decent handling.
But that may be an option for my next car as I'm happy with the Conti's and they do great in the summer as well.

I know you don't want to lose what you paid for the 970's, but you may want to consider keeping them until next fall and then get a set of DWS.
From what you've experienced and what others on TR have reported you may be taking an unnecessary risk keeping those tires, especially after they've worn a bit and lost even more of what they didn't have in the first in regards to AS use. The added cost will pay you back in feeling and driving safer in the winter. Be safe out there.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by DangerousTacos

I've had Conti DWS tires on two cars now, I swear by them.

+10.

I had them on my 135i and now on my 335i.
They are truly an exceptional AS tire.

If you haven't tried it, when it gets warmer, increase the tire pressure by 4-5psi all around. The steering response sharpens up, ride quality is still great, and you'll get a small boost in MPG, especially on longer highway drives.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by sean10mm

My experience with the previous version of that tire (RE960AS Pole Position) on a different car was terrible in the snow as well. Barely better than a summer tire - I mean genuinely scary while creeping around in 1/2" of snow.

I ran into some unexpected snow/slush/ice with my current car with the factory Pirelli P7 Cinturato all season RFT and it did fine, nothing like a snow tire but way better than the RE960AS. You can't fly around like you can on snow tires, but as long as you're careful about cornering speeds and allow for longer braking distances they're perfectly fine in lighter stuff.

Apparently the Continental ExtremeContact DWS is a really good all-season tire for snow, but I've never tried them.

P7's worked well for me as an all season... And in one snow storm.

After Nemo, so glad I got snow tires though...

[BruceOmega]

Interesting discussion. Going with the RE970AS or DWS and not staying with RFTs, has anyone considered the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All-Season?

I remember some kind of product announcement / demo not too long ago where Goodyear was showing these tires having exceptional grip in the wet. Was thinking that might imply good grip in snow and ice(?).

Ironically, that demo was on a 3 series but the Goodyear's do not come as a RFT.

Bruce

[utenigma]

I am, I'm pretty sure I'll replace my Pirelli P7's with Goodyear Eagle F1 AS's as soon as I wear the P7's down. I read the article in January's Roundel about the CCA getting to play with them at a car control clinic - nothing but glowing praise

and their video is awesome http://www.youtube.com/user/Goodyear...?v=M041nqZNUg8

Now just need to scrub these P7's off - doing an autoX next week, that should help

[sean10mm]

Originally Posted by BruceOmega

Interesting discussion. Going with the RE970AS or DWS and not staying with RFTs, has anyone considered the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All-Season?

I remember some kind of product announcement / demo not too long ago where Goodyear was showing these tires having exceptional grip in the wet. Was thinking that might imply good grip in snow and ice(?).

Ironically, that demo was on a 3 series but the Goodyear's do not come as a RFT.

Bruce

Wet grip and ice/snow performance aren't really related. A lot of summer tires have amazing wet grip and hydroplaning resistance but terrible grip when it's cold and no bite in snow.

I remember the old Eagle F1 GS-D3 was INSANELY good in rain, but turned into crap when it got cold and had no bite in the snow.

[dude987]

The run flat tire indicator on the dashboard lit up the other day. Checked all four tires and they all had 30 psi. The max pressure is rated at 51 psi and it was mounted last fall at 45 psi. Don't understand how it got from 45 psi to 30 psi in less than 5 months!! Been averaging around 22.3 mpg with the low tires. Only consolation is improved mph. Hopefully.

Had a heavy accumulation of snow on the roads today and the awd was slipping and sliding all over the place. Just very disappointed with the tires. Very poor snow handling capabilities. Definitely would not recommend.

[tdizzle]

When the OP said Pole Position, I thought about Atari games...

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by utenigma

I am, I'm pretty sure I'll replace my Pirelli P7's with Goodyear Eagle F1 AS's as soon as I wear the P7's down. I read the article in January's Roundel about the CCA getting to play with them at a car control clinic - nothing but glowing praise

and their video is awesome

When deciding on an AS tire DON'T go by the tested performance done in warm temps and on only dry and wet roads.
Most AS tires do good, and some great, on warm dry/wet roads, but that performance doesn't translate to cold, wet, and snow conditions.

The RE970 is a prime example. TR gives it great praise, but at the time there was no way to test their all season capability.
Now that winter is here many owners are telling the true story.

AS tire selection is very based on ones actually driving region though.
In Dallas TX the RE970's and likely the F1's will do great as you don't get very cold temps, and you may on occasion get light snow.
Plus, you it's a flatter area. Something like the 970's should work great as you're likely to deal more with cool/cold temps and need the AS tire's softer in the cold tread compound.

For me, I'm not a fan of Goodyear tires in general. I've had a few sets over the years and their over all performance is usually mid-pack and lower.

[dude987]

Originally Posted by RPM90

+10.

I had them on my 135i and now on my 335i.
They are truly an exceptional AS tire.

If you haven't tried it, when it gets warmer, increase the tire pressure by 4-5psi all around. The steering response sharpens up, ride quality is still great, and you'll get a small boost in MPG, especially on longer highway drives.

+1 The Conti DWS on my RWD Cayman performs better than the RE970AS on the 335i xDrive.

The RE970AS is rated at 51 psi max. It deflated over time from 45 to 30 psi (it feels like an absolute dud at 30 psi). Decided to take it up to 50 psi (sweet). It really does improve the overall road feel at the higher pressure. Pleased with the feedback and road feel at the higher pressure. But wet road traction is marginal and snow condition is absolutely abysmal.

[rallybull]

Based on all your inputs, looks like the RE970AS is the "almost" perfect tire I was looking for and that is a tire that:

1) Cannot be a summer tire since down in AZ it does get cold to 30 degrees for a few hours in the mornings for about 3-4 weeks in a year.
2) Don't bother about snow traction since there is no snow in AZ
3) Best possible handling, grip, cornering, etc (closest you can get to Max Pef Summer tires with a AS tire)
4) Should be more comfortable than my Pirelli P7 AS RFT (This is one area I guess this tire falls behind a bit)

This tire is made for AZ

[dude987]

Originally Posted by rallybull

This tire is made for AZ

The Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position gives the car a soft, quiet, and compliant road handling manners during moderate driving under dry conditions. The OEM Potenza S001 RTF and 400M 18" wheels, have much higher tolerances at the limits then the RE970AS. It will slip and slide way before the S001. Same under wet driving conditions. The S001 will easily out handle the RE9370AS at the limits.

For moderate daily driving, the RE970AS is comfortable. But for any extreme limits the S001 is significantly superior in every way.

AZ or not I will never get the RE970AS again. It is terrible in winter conditions, poor in wet road conditions, and has limited tolerances at the limits under dry conditions. Even in Arizona, I would think you could find much better tires. Oh and btw, there tires weren't cheap. Actually it was priced at a premium.

Just doing my part to get rid of an inferior tire and let people vote with the pocket books to get a subpar product off the market.

[rallybull]

Originally Posted by dude987

The Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position gives the car a soft, quiet, and compliant road handling manners during moderate driving under dry conditions. The OEM Potenza S001 RTF and 400M 18" wheels, have much higher tolerances at the limits then the RE970AS. It will slip and slide way before the S001. Same under wet driving conditions. The S001 will easily out handle the RE9370AS at the limits.

For moderate daily driving, the RE970AS is comfortable. But for any extreme limits the S001 is significantly superior in every way.

AZ or not I will never get the RE970AS again. It is terrible in winter conditions, poor in wet road conditions, and has limited tolerances at the limits under dry conditions. Even in Arizona, I would think you could find much better tires. Oh and btw, there tires weren't cheap. Actually it was priced at a premium.

Just doing my part to get rid of an inferior tire and let people vote with the pocket books to get a subpar product off the market.

Actually I discovered what I think is a better tire - the michelin pilot sport A/S 3.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Actually I discovered what I think is a better tire - the michelin pilot sport A/S 3.

I'm looking to buy the pilot a/s 3 as well but there haven't been any snow/winter testing yet. That's the only unknown.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by trey100

I'm looking to buy the pilot a/s 3 as well but there haven't been any snow/winter testing yet. That's the only unknown.

Yep, I'm standing by on that one too...

[trey100]

Originally Posted by DVC

Yep, I'm standing by on that one too...

I missed tire rack's review of the Michelin AS 3. Wet and dry performance look really good. It's amazing how the cornering G's vary between 0.87 (DWS) and 0.93 (AS 3). That's huge between tires in the same class. In fact the AS 3 pulled 0.84 in the wet! And a stopping distance in the wet from 50 mph that is 7' better than the worst in the comparison. This tire will be a nice upgrade from the stock tires.

[dude987]

The Tire Rack gave the Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position rave reviews in their write up. The positive reviews swayed me to pay a premium price for what I thought was premium tires. Needless to say, I was very disappointed with real life performance. Tire Rack write up reviews have a credibility problem. It seems their reviews are biased and skewed toward making a quick buck and does not reflect real life tire performance.

I will go so far as to say the Potenza RE970AS Pole Position is crap. If anyone is thinking about buying this tire, I would definitely not recommend it. At the end of the day, I feel cheated out of paying permium dollars for crap tires.

Tire Rack need to reconsider their marketing reviews. I would be very skeptical of any reviews from the Tire Rack.

I'm actually a bit peeved that I now have to live with these crap tires for 40,000 miles in an effort to recoup some of my hard earned dollars.