AT manual shifting behavior

Bassthe1st · 01-29-2014, 09:13 PM

I would just like to know how those who don't have the paddle shifter feel about this. Car magasines always said that for AT manual shifting, only BMW and Mazda had it right with pushing to downshift and pulling to upshift. Always had MT so I thougth it seemed right but now that I've had it for 3 months I must say it's totally unintuitive. When you actually using it makes more sense to me to pull to downshift and push to upshift. I don't get how those magazines got to that conclusion, but it just works backward of everything else.

What do you think?

Kafkaesque328 · 01-29-2014, 09:21 PM

I disagree. Feels totally intuitive to me to upshift by pulling towards you and downshift by pushing forward. The VW/Audi way is ass backwards.

M3AWD · 01-29-2014, 09:22 PM

I'm lucky to have paddle shifters as I hate how different cars do upshift/downshift push/pull thing differently... Note that older BMWs (ex. 2001 E46 and 1998 E39) were the other way around.. I preferred the older way: push=upshift, pull=downshift but that's because my older BMWs did it this way.

Bassthe1st · 01-29-2014, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque320

I disagree. Feels totally intuitive to me to upshift by pulling towards you and downshift by pushing forward. The VW/Audi way is ass backwards.

I don't feel it intuitive to push down to go up and up to go down.

Lost Horizon · 01-29-2014, 09:28 PM

Motorcycle mantra..

Pull-up push-down

I realize it's your foot, not your hand, but you get the idea...

synclastica_86 · 01-30-2014, 12:54 AM

Well, I think there are merits to both systems. Many argue that the system in audis (push for up) is more intuitive. This I think is true for the general public, especially the older generation. Those of us who grew up playing video games, however, will be more familiar with the BMW (pull for up) system. I have yet to see a wheel controller for any console that uses the Audi system. Objectively, the logic behind the pull for up system does actually make a lot of sense:

When you accelerate, you are pushed back into the seat. Pulling back to up shift avoids having to fight the g forces when up shifting. You are also pushed forward when you brake, and the same argument applies for downshifts.
In real race cars, up shifts are triggered by pulling back, although most are now paddle shifted.
In a traditional H-pattern gearbox, pulling back directly is an up shift and pushing forward directly is a downshift.

Objectively, both system had it's merits, but I personally would be much happier to pull for a higher gear. What boggles me the most is Mercedes and Chrysler's slap-stick system.

SteveAus · 01-30-2014, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassthe1st

I would just like to know how those who don't have the paddle shifter feel about this. Car magasines always said that for AT manual shifting, only BMW and Mazda had it right with pushing to downshift and pulling to upshift. Always had MT so I thougth it seemed right but now that I've had it for 3 months I must say it's totally unintuitive. When you actually using it makes more sense to me to pull to downshift and push to upshift. I don't get how those magazines got to that conclusion, but it just works backward of everything else.

What do you think?

I also disagree with you. A while ago I had a 540 Schnitzer in which the AT gear lever in sports mode had to be moved forwards to go up a gear and backwards to go down one. I hated it!

Thanks heavens BMW has seen sense to rectify this. It is far more ergonomic to pull the gear lever to go up a gear and to push it to go down a gear, as this is the way your body is moving - especially when braking and changing down gears at the same time.

If you look at World Rally Cars, they all have manual gearboxes which are push to downshift and pull to upshift.

USC2000 · 01-30-2014, 01:59 AM

I get confused just reading the posts. Luckily I can stick with my paddle shifters.

34.50 · 01-30-2014, 07:12 AM

The last car I had (CLS), it was left (downshift) and right (upshift) when using the transmission lever, which mirrors the paddle shifter layout - which made it very intuitive. Also doesn't cause arguments on the internet about which camp is right

Bassthe1st · 01-30-2014, 07:27 AM

I really wanted the opinions of others because as I said, I just switched from a MT, I'm a gamer too, and it just doesn't feel right.

To me the accelerating/decelerating force same direction is irrelevant. My arm doesn't move anyway. I always thought it was to mimic 1st to 2nd gear on a MT, but it's not a MT so why???

marseille82 · 01-30-2014, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34.50

The last car I had (CLS), it was left (downshift) and right (upshift) when using the transmission lever, which mirrors the paddle shifter layout - which made it very intuitive. Also doesn't cause arguments on the internet about which camp is right

01-29-2014, 09:13 PM	#1
Bassthe1st Private First Class 22 Rep 160 Posts Drives: 2017 330i xDrive M Sport Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Montreal, Qc iTrader: (0)	AT manual shifting behavior I would just like to know how those who don't have the paddle shifter feel about this. Car magasines always said that for AT manual shifting, only BMW and Mazda had it right with pushing to downshift and pulling to upshift. Always had MT so I thougth it seemed right but now that I've had it for 3 months I must say it's totally unintuitive. When you actually using it makes more sense to me to pull to downshift and push to upshift. I don't get how those magazines got to that conclusion, but it just works backward of everything else. What do you think?
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01-29-2014, 09:21 PM	#2
Kafkaesque328 Major 483 Rep 1,267 Posts Drives: 2016 328i M Sport Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: El A iTrader: (0)	I disagree. Feels totally intuitive to me to upshift by pulling towards you and downshift by pushing forward. The VW/Audi way is ass backwards. __________________ 2016 Black Sapphire 328i \| M Sport Pkg. \| JB+ \| Premium Pkg. \| Heated Seats \| Driver Assist Pkg. \| Navigation \| Misc. Coding \| 35% Ceramic Tint Past: 2014 Black 320i \| Sport Pkg \| BMS Stage 1
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01-29-2014, 09:22 PM	#3
M3AWD Lieutenant Colonel 3182 Rep 1,902 Posts Drives: 2022 G80 M3 AWD Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	I'm lucky to have paddle shifters as I hate how different cars do upshift/downshift push/pull thing differently... Note that older BMWs (ex. 2001 E46 and 1998 E39) were the other way around.. I preferred the older way: push=upshift, pull=downshift but that's because my older BMWs did it this way. __________________ 2022 G80 M3 Comp M xDrive
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01-29-2014, 09:28 PM	#5
Lost Horizon Captain 29 Rep 633 Posts Drives: 435 MPPK+1970 XKE OTS Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Victoria BC iTrader: (0)	Motorcycle mantra.. Pull-up push-down I realize it's your foot, not your hand, but you get the idea... __________________
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01-30-2014, 12:54 AM	#6
synclastica_86 Captain 242 Rep 735 Posts Drives: F32 435i, E92 M3, S550 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Hong Kong iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW F32 435iA [0.00] 2009 BMW E92 M3 [0.00] 2008 Mercedes S550 ... [0.00]	Well, I think there are merits to both systems. Many argue that the system in audis (push for up) is more intuitive. This I think is true for the general public, especially the older generation. Those of us who grew up playing video games, however, will be more familiar with the BMW (pull for up) system. I have yet to see a wheel controller for any console that uses the Audi system. Objectively, the logic behind the pull for up system does actually make a lot of sense: When you accelerate, you are pushed back into the seat. Pulling back to up shift avoids having to fight the g forces when up shifting. You are also pushed forward when you brake, and the same argument applies for downshifts. In real race cars, up shifts are triggered by pulling back, although most are now paddle shifted. In a traditional H-pattern gearbox, pulling back directly is an up shift and pushing forward directly is a downshift. Objectively, both system had it's merits, but I personally would be much happier to pull for a higher gear. What boggles me the most is Mercedes and Chrysler's slap-stick system. __________________ Current: BMW F32 435iA M-Sports; BMW E92 M3, M-DCT; Mercedes W221 S550 4matic; Ford Fiesta ST; Nissan Silvia S15 Spec-R Retired: BMW E93 323iA; BMW E85 Z4 3.0i, SMG; Lexus IS 250 AWD; Lexus GX 470; Mercedes W203 C230 Sportscoupe; Peugeot 206 S16; Peugeot 206 RC
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01-30-2014, 01:59 AM	#8
USC2000 Lieutenant Colonel 127 Rep 1,604 Posts Drives: F30 328i M Sport Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: El Paso, TX iTrader: (10)	I get confused just reading the posts. Luckily I can stick with my paddle shifters.
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01-30-2014, 07:12 AM	#9
34.50 Lieutenant 38 Rep 596 Posts Drives: 2013 335i xDrive Sport Line Join Date: May 2013 Location: Upstate NY iTrader: (0)	The last car I had (CLS), it was left (downshift) and right (upshift) when using the transmission lever, which mirrors the paddle shifter layout - which made it very intuitive. Also doesn't cause arguments on the internet about which camp is right __________________ 2013 BMW 335i xDrive Sport Line
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01-30-2014, 07:27 AM	#10
Bassthe1st Private First Class 22 Rep 160 Posts Drives: 2017 330i xDrive M Sport Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Montreal, Qc iTrader: (0)	I really wanted the opinions of others because as I said, I just switched from a MT, I'm a gamer too, and it just doesn't feel right. To me the accelerating/decelerating force same direction is irrelevant. My arm doesn't move anyway. I always thought it was to mimic 1st to 2nd gear on a MT, but it's not a MT so why???
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