[Drisser]

Originally Posted by M4KingUK

Did you own the CS outright ?, if not this does make a huge difference on the monthly outgoings and I think this is why the M3/M4 boys and gals are being stung.

I think for most purchasers of the new M3/M4 they'll be paying approximately £650-£900 per month plus £200ish pm on fuel, I dont think Insurance is as bad as it was on the E93 M3(which is what I had) as the engines are now smaller and emissions better etc but you can see that it amounts to alot of money per month, especially if your not offsetting it against a business.

A friend of mine has an M4 which is being paid by the company he works for, so his M3 is only costing him fuel+insurance = Total £450 per month and thats with it being driven everyday.

He has an M4 company car and bought his own M3 ? Very strange choice IMO to run 2 similar cars !?

[Drisser]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Ah, so the suggestion is they're not daily drivers because of the cost implication of using them and racking-up a high mileage (as opposed to them not being user-friendly enough to drive every day?). I can perhaps see that although you'd like to think anyone with the funds to afford an M3 or an M4 would also be savvy enough to work out in advance what it will cost them to run for the mileage they're likely to cover; surely that shouldn't come as a surprise and lead people to bail out early?!

My CS was on finance initially which was then paid off after around 3 years - never worked out exactly how much a month it cost me over the time I had it but loved the car and had no regrets whatsoever (apart from selling it that is!).

you are forgetting one thing here - and no disrespect to anyone with an M3 etc.. but the PCP model has meant a lot of people are running around in cars they think they can "afford" but maybe can't. Its not just relevant to M3s of course its relevant to all price points from Fiestas upwards. It suits a lot of people of course and many can afford it so don't jump down my throat but there are plenty cases where dealers don't explain the full story, aren't transparent and customers don't understand the product. They hear "for £300 a month you can drive X and then after 3 years change it for Y" and they are sold well that isn't buying a car, that is financing depreciation. Its fine if you understand that but many don't and then wonder why their deposit + 36 x £300 has become next to nothing.

The PCP scheme is lets face it just an elaborate way of keeping people coming back into showrooms to tie them into another contract by limiting choices. When I paid off the finance on my other halfs Audi A1 6 months ago, which was before the final PCP payment was due ( we wanted to own it outright as she keeps cars for a long time and loves the A1) I was almost treated with huge surprise as Audi FS obviously inform the supplying dealer and then they try and get you back in to upgrade - I know this is a growth area because my other half who works in mortgages was offered a job with our supplying Audi dealer as a retention specialist - role was specifically to call and contact people coming to the end of their PCP schemes and get them into the showroom. They were taking on 3 people for this therefore it clearly pays..

Sorry will get off my pcp soapbox now. But when I bought my first car, it was a Pug 306 D turbo which I thought was rather lovely, it cost £12,999 I put down £3k and paid the rest off over 48 months and was never and have never been in negative equity in a car.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

you guys and your diesels

Yea sh*t sound but they go well.

[Drisser]

Try filling up in Bordeaux in an M3 and getting home to Norwich without a refill and any quicker :-)

sorry shouldn't turn this into an anti M3 thread because I would love one, but I just wouldn't pay the extra for it over my current car.

[G82Dude]

I use my M4 as my daily driver; it's absolutely fine.

[gatsojon]

Originally Posted by JOHNBMWM5

Hi all, my old crew on M3cutters are moving on from theses cars already (less than a year) some are going back to 435/335 Xdrive diesels.

That's a shame the experience didn't work out for them. I hope I don't end up going back so soon...

[DazC]

I will be using mine as a daily and doing 20k pa in it at least.

It's not a stripped out track / race car. If someone can't run an M car as a daily cos it's too harsh well I'm at a loss.

I can understand the financial burden of doing so but not from a comfort perspective.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by DazC

I will be using mine as a daily and doing 20k pa in it at least.

It's not a stripped out track / race car. If someone can't run an M car as a daily cos it's too harsh well I'm at a loss.

I can understand the financial burden of doing so but not from a comfort perspective.

The bit I don't quite understand with this is why the cost of running a car like an M3/M4 would come as a surprise; surely people do a bit of checking before signing on the dotted line if running costs are potentially an issue for them? Moreover, these cars will still be under warranty and no doubt many will have been bought with a service pack - therefore, wouldn't have thought there was much scope for unforeseen major expenditure at this stage?

My suspicion is more that owners are getting rid because they're either bored and ready for something different or because they're a bit disappointed with the chassis dynamics if it's a pre-LCI vehicle; not convinced many are bailing-out early because the cost of ownership is proving way more than they expected!

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

you guys and your diesels

Agreed!....Fuel of the devil!

...and as for someone's comment about 'quicker in the wet'......why would you want to be hooling around in the pissing rain when there are so many crap drivers out there including too many who slow down to a snail's pace as the first spot of drizzle hits their windscreen??!!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JOHNBMWM5

Hi all, my old crew on M3cutters are moving on from theses cars already (less than a year) some are going back to 435/335 Xdrive diesels.

Reading through the thread can't really see why users are selling out. Surely it isn't costs, as changing cars is also expensive, often more expensive than sticking with a car.

Is it the "must have the next new model" syndrome? Is the car less than users hoped for?

Or is it really "more money than sense"? Following dreams.

[BMWChap]

Originally Posted by Drisser

He has an M4 company car and bought his own M3 ? Very strange choice IMO to run 2 similar cars !?

Typo , he has an M4

[dopper99]

Look, all I can say is this.....

I wouldnt slag off my old car just because I no longer own it. I thought my old 335d was a brilliant car and will have no bad word said against the 335d (cant comment on other F3x's as not really driven any). If circumstances meant I had to scale back, I'd have another one tomorrow.

However the M3 is a very different animal, yes it costs more to buy and run but you are getting a brilliant package for your money.

As much as I loved the 335d, even with ACS springs the truth is the M3 will piss all over it in every respect (apart from fuel consumption lol). Not driven a standard M3 but the traction/grip from the competition pack is fantastic for a 450hp car. Coming from an xdrive I was pretty concerned about the lack of traction but I'm amazed TBH how good it really is.
Yes, its not perfect, no car is. But overall, for what was supercar performance 10-12 years ago, its a cracking package. And then there is the looks.....

I get what Drisser says about the "new car syndrome" and getting bored after a while and selling. But then often those same people buy something else and realise what they once had and are thus looking to buy another one.............. the old saying that you dont realise what you had until no longer have it rings true.

From what I've read on m3cutters, the majority of owners love their M3/4's but there are a few it seems wanting to move (or have moved) to RS4's, C63's, the new Alfa etc..... These guys are all pretty much die hard petrol fans and cant see many moving to 335d/435d's (apart from a couple that have bought them for their missus!).

[Chris Peacock]

Originally Posted by Drisser

They hear "for £300 a month you can drive X and then after 3 years change it for Y" and they are sold well that isn't buying a car, that is financing depreciation. Its fine if you understand that but many don't and then wonder why their deposit + 36 x £300 has become next to nothing.

.

Whether you buy a brand new car outright for cash, personal loan or PCP you are still financing depreciation...the majority of vehicles will lose 50% of that value in the first 3years (give or take), that's the cost of having a brand new car and there's no getting away from it (certain exotic marques obviously the exception).

I agree with your sentiment though that its an incredibly clever system for getting people into another new car and starting the process all over again, credit to the marketing team which came up with the concept.

Lets face it your average punter is faced with re-financing the balance on your current (old) car with a chunk of savings or a personal loan which is more than likely going to cost you the same monthly again for a similar period. Problem is this time you have no new car excitement, an MOT, no warranty and unknown bills for the subsequent period...doesn't sound very appealing.

Or Mr car salesman can do you a 'great deal' on a new car and even better than that there's some money from your current car which can go towards the new one....

It's easy to see how the system works so well and why the percentage of new cars on the road are financed this way.

In my view the issue with cars like the M3/M4 is that very often enthusiasts use forums of this ilk, hype themselves up with the speculation and chat surrounding them and before they know committed to a huge monthly outgoing for something as this thread has suggested they are bored of after 6 months. They then go looking for the next 'thing'......

[creepy coupe]

The M4 I drove was so very like my 435d . so civilised. i think it would make a great DD. I'd go as far as saying. it was the least m car like I'd driven.

[BnB]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

The M4 I drove was so very like my 435d . so civilised. i think it would make a great DD. I'd go as far as saying. it was the least m car like I'd driven.

The M3 I had for a day even sounded like a diesel ;-)

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Reading through the thread can't really see why users are selling out. Surely it isn't costs, as changing cars is also expensive, often more expensive than sticking with a car.

Is it the "must have the next new model" syndrome? Is the car less than users hoped for?

Or is it really "more money than sense"? Following dreams.

Not really sure. I always buy outright and new, if I get bored which I do, I change but only if a good deal is to be had, it would appear these super deals have dried up in my neck of the woods. Time will tell.
But TBH it's getting harder to open up these high performers without getting spotted.

[Drisser]

This is also part of the issue with many cars now they are licence losing and you cant exploit them - there is a lot to be said for having something that doesn't have the inherent speed but you need to wring its neck more to get the performance. My Fiat Coupe is a bit like this - its not mega quick but its still high performance hot hatch quick by todays standards and so you can push it hard to 80 or so and enjoy it without thinking you are going to lose your licence..

There is a lot to be said for something like a modern Golf Gti or hot hatch really with around 250 BHP because they can be a lot of fun to drive at 8/10s and you don't risk getting locked up..

[BnB]

Originally Posted by Drisser

There is a lot to be said for something like a modern Golf Gti or hot hatch really with around 250 BHP because they can be a lot of fun to drive at 8/10s and you don't risk getting locked up..

Yes to this. I had a Pork habit for about ten years and the modern 911s need to be doing mach 10 to feel like you're really getting the most out of 'em. My wife's S1 on the other hand gives thrills at 50mph.

[SDH]

Oh dear, after reading this thread I feel my ambitions of owning an M car are now pointless.

[takumichinoku]

Don't know how you drove the M4 creepy but if you were hitting the redline it's heart in mouth moment for me. No way does it feel like a 435d lol. The way the thing accelerates from 30 onwards is savage..

If your cruising at 30 then maybe I can see the similarity because it does have torque..but then that's why it's suitable as a daily driver also..

It's funny seeing the thread develop into a monthly outgoing, PCP, didn't think about the costs topic when if people just go on the forum they will see what the owners are actually saying! Fickle bunch who just can't be pleased

On a side note I do prefer driving my 1.3 Yaris to the red line knowing I couldn't even break the speed limits if I tried because it would take too long..modern cars have been too overpowered for the roads for a long time now..

[InquisitiveA]

Originally Posted by Drisser

This is also part of the issue with many cars now they are licence losing and you cant exploit them - there is a lot to be said for having something that doesn't have the inherent speed but you need to wring its neck more to get the performance. My Fiat Coupe is a bit like this - its not mega quick but its still high performance hot hatch quick by todays standards and so you can push it hard to 80 or so and enjoy it without thinking you are going to lose your licence..

There is a lot to be said for something like a modern Golf Gti or hot hatch really with around 250 BHP because they can be a lot of fun to drive at 8/10s and you don't risk getting locked up..

I was going to post somethink like this but I felt bad for thinking it!

My 340i will quickly get me to licence losing speeds, and I've lost count of the number of times I've flicked it into sport mode to have a bit of fun only to run into a line of traffic, ease off, put it back into comfort... It's more car than I need and more car than real life roads allow 90% of the time.

I could have bought an M3 for £15k more, I wouldn't criticise someone who did, but for me (and IMO only) that would have been effectively an extra £15k to slightly improve 10% of my driving time. Hard to justify.

[F20MAW73]

PCP's suit me just fine with my car allowance. But I set myself a limit of no paying no more a month than £450 for a car.

I'd would absolutely love an M3/M4 but really couldn't justify paying £650 + per month for one. But these things are all relative and If I earn't more money than yes I probably would have one to be fair.

Also I see plenty of M3/M4's around and can't imagine they wouldn't make good daily drivers.