[kadify]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

I get it.

You get a new car at this price point and it SHOULD work. But s... happens. I know it all to well as I have sued 2 car companies (and won) funding the entire process myself...and had 1 car purchase refunded without legal intervention.

But then again, don't take it out on the local Dealer as you appear to be doing. They did not manufacture the car. They are only playing Doctor trying to diagnose. And they would live to run up the bill to BMW, lol.

Even the best Doctors miss things and people die. Just be glad it's not something that could cause your death.

What? Where did I 'take it out' on my dealer for anything...? I stated that I was frustrated with one dealer and moved to another and that at this new dealer, the SA I got was an asshole to me for reasons unknown to me as I was more than polite to him. That is a completely separate issue.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by kadify

What? Where did I 'take it out' on my dealer for anything...? I stated that I was frustrated with one dealer and moved to another and that at this new dealer, the SA I got was an asshole to me for reasons unknown to me as I was more than polite to him. That is a completely separate issue.

It reads as you are taking your frustration out on the Dealerships.

Originally Posted by kadify

I'm tired of scheduling an appointment every month to have something fixed on my car but at the same rate, it's not always the exact same issue and often times the issues are so intermittent that the dealer can't replicate the problem anyway.

Originally Posted by kadify

I'm actually at a new dealer because I was having problems with the previous dealer and was getting tired of taking it back for similar issues each time. Unfortunately the SA I got at the new dealer is a complete and utter asshole. So much so, that even if the techs fix my car this go around IDK if I'd take my car back to this dealer for servicing...

I'll bring that up with the SA I'm working with when I pick up my car, hopefully tomorrow. I know they're also replacing the actual wiring to the USB/Aux port. When talking to the SA he didn't know the specifics on what the techs actually found that led them to replace the whole head unit, just that they had performed an update and had "still noticed issues". So I want to get an actual answer of what that means when I get my car. Who knows maybe they are replacing the wiring harness too and the SA just didn't say so over the phone.

He didn't seem to know much about what was actually being done on my car. All he basically said on the phone was "Well they're replacing your professional head unit assembly, which is 2300 dollars... blah blah blah... but your car should still be under warranty, I'll have to check." I was like "Um yeah my car is a year old and definitely doesn't have 50k miles yet so...."

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

You are outside of Lemon Law in California which is for 18 months or 18k miles, whichever comes first, so you would be unsuccessful under Lemon Law.

Furthermore, California Lemon Law says it has to be something that would make the vehicle unsafe by causing a possible death or serious bodily injury to be considered.

Again, rebooting Nav System/ iDrive would not qualify.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

Amazed that people spend more time making a post online instead of 5 seconds with a Google search to see if their situation would even apply.

Originally Posted by Kabrich

Suggest you reread law.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

for those in CA, do not pay attention to what's been posted by Kabrich

I'm a CA attorney and our office handles a volume of lemon law cases

I can tell you of two cases just this month that got qualified as "lemon" with 48xxx and 62xxx miles (powertrain issue on the 62k miles one)
the PRESUMPTION for a lemon law case is 18 months or 18,000 miles
but you can still invoke the lemon law as long as you are under original warranty

of course every case is different and fact specific
but a navigation issue CAN and DOES qualify under lemon law
why? because we make it a safety issue and press it
(we had a BMW 6 series and a Lexus GX repurchased as lemons with Nav issues)

so PLEASE consult a local attorney before you just blindly follow the advice of online posters
those in California, feel free to ask me any questions regarding a possible lemon law claim


p.s. i recently chatted with a forum member who had hired a really greedy lemon law firm ... they were going to take about 90% of the settlement money. it was too late for me to take the case but i gave him legal ammunition to fight the law firm he hired and his portion of the settlement ended up being about 3x what it was originally

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

for those in CA, do not pay attention to what's been posted by Kabrich

I'm a CA attorney and our office handles a volume of lemon law cases

I can tell you of two cases just this month that got qualified as "lemon" with 48xxx and 62xxx miles (powertrain issue on the 62k miles one)
the PRESUMPTION for a lemon law case is 18 months or 18,000 miles
but you can still invoke the lemon law as long as you are under original warranty

of course every case is different and fact specific
but a navigation issue CAN and DOES qualify under lemon law
why? because we make it a safety issue and press it

so PLEASE consult a local attorney before you just blindly follow the advice of online posters
those in California, feel free to ask me any questions regarding a possible lemon law claim

Yes, ignore links from State of California.

Ignore the California Attorney General.

https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/cars

Believe the Lawyer, lol.

Go ahead and contact him. Just don't give him ANY money for your case.

And a God forbid you do not get Attorney fees!

As I have funded 2 cases myself, I know the 2-3 Years it takes as they try to wait you out and what a case cost (in most cases, more than your car is worth).

The cases he noted probably qualified under Lemon Law 18/18 parameters but were at 48k and 62k miles when they were finally decided, which wouldn't be outside of the time a court case could take.

BTW, remember mileage is subtracted on a buyback as well.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

Yes, ignore links from State of California.

Ignore the California Attorney General.

https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/cars

Believe the Lawyer, lol.

Go ahead and contact him. Just don't give him ANY money for your case.

And a God forbid you do not get Attorney fees!

As I have funded 2 cases myself, I know the 2-3 Years it takes as they try to wait you out and what a case cost (in most cases, more than your car is worth).

The cases he noted probably qualified under Lemon Law 18/18 parameters but were at 48k and 62k miles when they were finally decided, which wouldn't be outside of the time a court case could take.

BTW, remember mileage is subtracted on a buyback as well.

let me clarify
do not pay attention to Kabrich's INTERPRETATION of the info from the links

there's a reason why lawyers are needed
to interpret the law, follow the procedures, and navigate the legal system

the 48k and 62k miles are the mileages that are pegged by the manufacturer as the usage deduction point, because that's when the problems were reported
otherwise i wouldn't be using them as examples to counter what you posted

being outside of 18 months/18k miles do not disqualify a car as a lemon
the manufacturer may deny your claim and dare you to file a lawsuit
which we have on many occasions

you may have had bad experiences but do not throw a blanket statement out like that
i don't want other forum members to read your posts and give up on perfectly good lemon law claims because they're over 18 months or 18k miles

[XKxRome0ox]

due to attorney client privilege, i will not disclose any identifying information
but this is what happened with the vehicle with 48k miles

CA registered vehicle, major transmission problem reported at 48k miles
entire transmission replaced by dealer, vehicle was out of commission for over 30 days when including 2 other service visits
we made a lemon law claim
manufacturer immediately offered repurchase + attorney's fees
but due to the high miles when the tranny problem was reported, the client will get very little actual money back
(mileage deduction is about 40% of the vehicle value)
HOWEVER, client will be getting out of the vehicle before lease end, will not be responsible for the overage miles (at least $2500 by lease end), and will be rid of the vehicle that gave the client a lot of stress over the past several months
and nothing out of client's pocket to pay for our services as manufacturer is paying that

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

Suggest you reread law.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

From Page 5: "The California Lemon Law applies throughout the duration of the vehicle manufacturer’s original warranty period. Consult your vehicle manufacturer’s warranty manual for warranty periods pertaining to your vehicle"

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

due to attorney client privilege, i will not disclose any identifying information
but this is what happened with the vehicle with 48k miles

CA registered vehicle, major transmission problem reported at 48k miles
entire transmission replaced by dealer, vehicle was out of commission for over 30 days when including 2 other service visits
we made a lemon law claim
manufacturer immediately offered repurchase + attorney's fees
but due to the high miles when the tranny problem was reported, the client will get very little actual money back
(mileage deduction is about 40% of the vehicle value)
HOWEVER, client will be getting out of the vehicle before lease end, will not be responsible for the overage miles (at least $2500 by lease end), and will be rid of the vehicle that gave the client a lot of stress over the past several months
and nothing out of client's pocket to pay for our services as manufacturer is paying that

Thank you for a great advice. For those in CA, I also suggest an experienced lemon law attorney.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

due to attorney client privilege, i will not disclose any identifying information
but this is what happened with the vehicle with 48k miles

Court filing are a matter of public record.

Suggest you give us the Court Filings info for all these miraculous Lemon Law Victories with a Nav System going bad etc.

[kadify]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

It reads as you are taking your frustration out on the Dealerships.

That's your interpretation. It is true that I am exacerbated with how often I'm at the dealer but that doesn't mean I am personally taking it out on anyone, especially not the dealer who isn't responsible for my car problems. Your statement regarding me is juvenile and unfounded.


Regarding the legal talk, I think I will consult an attorney should I still have further issues. I may be young but I wasn't born yesterday and I know that even though it has been more than 12 months since purchasing my vehicle there is still the possibility of a lemon law case which XKxRome0ox has confirmed.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by kadify

That's your interpretation. It is true that I am exacerbated with how often I'm at the dealer but that doesn't mean I am personally taking it out on anyone, especially not the dealer who isn't responsible for my car problems. Your statement regarding me is juvenile and unfounded.


Regarding the legal talk, I think I will consult an attorney should I still have further issues. I may be young but I wasn't born yesterday and I know that even though it has been more than 12 months since purchasing my vehicle there is still the possibility of a lemon law case which XKxRome0ox has confirmed.

Knock yourself out.

The case XKxRome0ox referred to above does not appear to be filed under the California Lemon Law, but under the Standard Warranty.

You are required to use Arbitration via the BBB AUTO LINE before asserting in court any rights or remedies conferred by California Civil Code Section 1793.22, which is the California Lemon Law.

Furthermore, this does not allow for recovery of Attorney Costs.

As thus, the case was most likely filed outside the Lemon Law and under failure of Factory Warranty.

BTW, how many months do you think a leased car with 48k miles had left on the lease - and all the owner got was to turn the car in several months early and avoid mileage overage.

That's a far cry from a BuyBack under the Lemon Law.

And I'd love to see a case where the Nav System triggered a BuyBack.

Of course, some people on the internet claim to have seen a Bigfoot and a Space Aliens as well. I am sure some claim to have won cases against them in court.

Guess some also believe California Civil Codes apply in Colorado.

[XKxRome0ox]

Making a lemon law claim does not mean filing a complaint in court
It is opening a claim with the manufacturer prior to filing a lawsuit
Most claims will be resolved without filing

Some reasons why most clients prefer not to file
1. Because filing fee
2. Because once litigation is initiated, attorney fees go up
3. Because most people despise having to go through any part of litigation. The stress, the time, the costs

Not every navigation issue case will qualify as a lemon
Never said that and we only take certain navigation cases
We reject some ourselves because we know it will never fly
Some were rejected by manufacturer and client and we decided not to pursue
Had several that resolved with "cash and keep" and 2 that were repurchased in the past year
None of the nav cases proceeded to litigation
I only mentioned it because you flat out stated that navigation issues will not qualify under lemon law

[kadify]

Seriously who put salt in your coffee instead of sugar this morning Kabrich? Just leave well enough alone... You sound insane. Half of the statements you're making are groundless and irrelevant to me anyway since I don't live in California.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by kadify

Seriously who put salt in your coffee instead of sugar this morning Kabrich? Just leave well enough alone... You sound insane. Half of the statements you're making are groundless and irrelevant to me anyway since I don't live in California.

I would say the same to you x2.

Glad you finally figured out a California Civil Law does not apply to a you, which was pointed out when I posted Colorado Law...and the person who's advice you stated you are following is quoting California Law.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

Making a lemon law claim does not mean filing a complaint in court
It is opening a claim with the manufacturer prior to filing a lawsuit
Most claims will be resolved without filing

Yes I pointed that out in the post above - when I pointed out according to California Law, will not allow legal costs (in other words, client pays).

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

Some reasons why most clients prefer not to file
1. Because filing fee
2. Because once litigation is initiated, attorney fees go up
3. Because most people despise having to go through any part of litigation. The stress, the time, the costs

Yes, again, Attorney fees go up. Great for you. Not so great for client depending on outcome.

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

Not every navigation issue case will qualify as a lemon
Never said that and we only take certain navigation cases
We reject some ourselves because we know it will never fly
Some were rejected by manufacturer and client and we decided not to pursue
Had several that resolved with "cash and keep" and 2 that were repurchased in the past year
None of the nav cases proceeded to litigation
I only mentioned it because you flat out stated that navigation issues will not qualify under lemon law

And it's very clear that most cases you presented in this thread were not under California Lemon Law in a thread on the Lemon Law.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

Yes I pointed that out in the post above - when I pointed out according to California Law, will not allow legal costs (in other words, client pays).

Yes, again, Attorney fees go up. Great for you. Not so great for client depending on outcome.

And it's very clear that most cases you presented in this thread were not under California Lemon Law in a thread on the Lemon Law.

Please stop
You already got called out for spreading misinformation
But you are desperately trying to prove yourself


If repurchased, manufacturer pays attorney's fees
That is by law
If a lawsuit is filed and then settled with a cash offer (not a repurchase or replacement with designated attorney's fee by manufacturer), then attorney's fee comes out of the client's recovery (all depends on the attorney client fee agreement)
Should anyone work for free? Litigation involves a lot of work
The choice to file a lawsuit and to accept a settlement at any point is up to the client
There is always the ultimate choice to go all the way to trial

You seem confused
Lemon Law claims are made everyday with the manufacturer
You seem to be calling only those claims that are filed with the court as "lemon law"
There is no need to file a lawsuit if a lemon law claim can be resolved without filing
If there is a refusal to repurchase with a low ball cash offer ... or a straight up denial ... but we think the claim has merit, we will advise the client that a lawsuit should be filed
We have turned denials into cash and keep settlements and full repurchase offers after wrestling with the manufacturer's lawyers

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

You are outside of Lemon Law in California which is for 18 months or 18k miles, whichever comes first, so you would be unsuccessful under Lemon Law.

Amazed that people spend more time making a post online instead of 5 seconds with a Google search to see if their situation would even apply.

Originally Posted by Kabrich

Suggest you reread law.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

I think you need to listen to your own advice

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

From Page 5: "The California Lemon Law applies throughout the duration of the vehicle manufacturer’s original warranty period. Consult your vehicle manufacturer’s warranty manual for warranty periods pertaining to your vehicle"

^ this guy called you out for your misinformation

Just because you know how to Google and copy-paste does not mean you actually understand what the heck you are reading
If the guy you responded to actually follows your "advice" then he would be screwing himself over for listening to a random guy on the Internet

[XKxRome0ox]

I am not posting to win an Internet argument
I really do not want someone to read your posts and give up his or her legal remedies
That would be a tragedy on many levels