[MyFragileHalogen]

I know many people already have read this, but.

http://www.german**********/content....feet-of-torque

If this source is reliable, n20 is a bit hopeless because putting a catless DP + any tune with slightly more aggressive map would easily reach 330 lbs-ft. Any thoughts?

Edited: I see the url gets censored. Is it not a good source to refer? If so, please let me know. The title is:

"BMW 2.0 liter four cylinder N20 turbo motor already having issues? Head cracks under stress above 331 pound-feet of torque?"

[1FRESHF32]

This ***** said my engine exploded lmao

[Jamesons Viggen]

It was mostly debunked as a silly source.

BMS tuning has noted some( a couple) cars bending rods but at fairly high power levels.

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

I know many people already have read this, but.

http://www.german**********/content....feet-of-torque

If this source is reliable, n20 is a bit hopeless because putting a catless DP + any tune with slightly more aggressive map would easily reach 330 lbs-ft. Any thoughts?

Edited: I see the url gets censored. Is it not a good source to refer? If so, please let me know. The title is:

"BMW 2.0 liter four cylinder N20 turbo motor already having issues? Head cracks under stress above 331 pound-feet of torque?"

[TurboM]

I wouldn't trust this motor beyond a mild tune. It doesn't appear to be built to make the level of power that some people are looking for.

350 lb/ft tq in the N20/26 is equivalent to 525 lb/ft tq in say an N54/55, proportionally based on # of cylinders and displacement, which is a direct correlation to cylinder pressures (almost 90 lb/ft tq per cylinder & 175 lb/ft tq per liter).

I don't see too many people trying to push these numbers on the N54/N55 or pretty much any stock motor for that matter, especially on pump gas. It doesn't seem like a good idea to assume the internals of the N20/26 can handle this much power, even with a good reliable tune.

Just my .02

[MyFragileHalogen]

Does displacement vs max torque scale linearly? But yes, I would avoid getting close to that figures too. I guess N20 is nothing like the 1803cc 4 cylinder turbocharged motor in a group B Ford RS200 that pushed 440hp and 361 lb-ft at 23psi.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_RS200)

[TurboM]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

Does displacement vs max torque scale linearly? But yes, I would avoid getting close to that figures too. I guess N20 is nothing like the 1803cc 4 cylinder turbocharged motor in a group B Ford RS200 that pushed 440hp and 361 lb-ft at 23psi.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_RS200)

It may not be perfectly linear but it's proportional and a fairly reliable reference point for the amount of stress and pressure in the cylinders

Nice reference to the 80's ford rally motor

The N20/26 is far from a limited production motor meant for big HP. It is basically BMW's base motor meant to get good gas mileage without sacrificing power. Any motor running 17lbs of boost straight from the factory is not going to have a ton of room for improvement (yes, I know there are exceptions to this). I really think people need to take it easy with this motor or were going to see an increased number of failures popping up in the near future.

[wmandra]

FWIW, if you do a parts cross reference between the N20 and the S55 I think you'd be surprised at how many parts are identical between those engines, but different when comparing the N20 to the N55. It looks like BMW M took several bits of N20 technology and used it when creating the S55. The biggest difference (other than the obvious 4 vs 6 cylinders) is the connecting rods, which are made of a different material in the S55. I'm currently looking into if the S55 rods are a possible replacement for N20 rods. Size wise they are the same.

[bcornwellatl]

Originally Posted by TurboM

It may not be perfectly linear but it's proportional and a fairly reliable reference point for the amount of stress and pressure in the cylinders

Nice reference to the 80's ford rally motor

The N20/26 is far from a limited production motor meant for big HP. It is basically BMW's base motor meant to get good gas mileage without sacrificing power. Any motor running 17lbs of boost straight from the factory is not going to have a ton of room for improvement (yes, I know there are exceptions to this). I really think people need to take it easy with this motor or were going to see an increased number of failures popping up in the near future.

I agree with you... The N20 is a pleasure driving engine. It's design was to do just as you said... give you gas mileage and a bit more power than your typical 4 banger. It's also 6 grand less - making the BMW more affordable to the average buyer (until you are like me and get every damn feature to make the car over 50k). With that said, I think it would be foolish to think that BMW made the engine performance to the near max limits. Normally engine producers make engines that will allow a percentage of higher power to allow for miscalculations or different situations (such as gas combustion, etc). Now, I do think there are flaws in the parts. I'm not sure if everything is x-rayed before being installed or not ( I doubt it seriously). I actually watched a youtube video of the N20 being built in Germany.. and to be honest, if every engine was built like this, there shouldn't be very many failures at all... I could see the parts they get from different manufacturers having the bad flaws... and just not breaking under their in factory stress test... but then we add gas, combustion, crud, crap gas, and boom - problems... I read these forums and some other forums that talk about performances and such... I had a 335 (2008 N54) and added the cobb tune to it- and LOVED the extra speed... but that exposed more problems that caused the engine to break... and I was on aggressive stage 1 maps... heat was the cause of 90% of my problems... the N20 doesn't have a lot of tunes yet, but the BMS tune (stage 1) seems to be a very small bump and from what I've read it doesn't really cause much more heat or stress on the engine. It also depends on the driver and if that driver is flooring it every single time they get in the car or not... personally, I want to get the extra power. while the n20 has spunk and some getup, I've found lately that it sometimes wants to hesitate - something that my cobb tune use to do a good job of counter acting. I do not like pulling into traffic and flooring the car just to hear the car sound like its about to die because it is holding back on power... I think as BMW becomes a super supplier of cars (such as Toyota and GM, Etc.) you are going to see the quality of the engine go to shit and tunes will be something you do with a fully modified engine... (and no warranty). Just my opinion...

[TurboM]

Originally Posted by bcornwellatl

I agree with you... The N20 is a pleasure driving engine. It's design was to do just as you said... give you gas mileage and a bit more power than your typical 4 banger. It's also 6 grand less - making the BMW more affordable to the average buyer (until you are like me and get every damn feature to make the car over 50k). With that said, I think it would be foolish to think that BMW made the engine performance to the near max limits. Normally engine producers make engines that will allow a percentage of higher power to allow for miscalculations or different situations (such as gas combustion, etc). Now, I do think there are flaws in the parts. I'm not sure if everything is x-rayed before being installed or not ( I doubt it seriously). I actually watched a youtube video of the N20 being built in Germany.. and to be honest, if every engine was built like this, there shouldn't be very many failures at all... I could see the parts they get from different manufacturers having the bad flaws... and just not breaking under their in factory stress test... but then we add gas, combustion, crud, crap gas, and boom - problems... I read these forums and some other forums that talk about performances and such... I had a 335 (2008 N54) and added the cobb tune to it- and LOVED the extra speed... but that exposed more problems that caused the engine to break... and I was on aggressive stage 1 maps... heat was the cause of 90% of my problems... the N20 doesn't have a lot of tunes yet, but the BMS tune (stage 1) seems to be a very small bump and from what I've read it doesn't really cause much more heat or stress on the engine. It also depends on the driver and if that driver is flooring it every single time they get in the car or not... personally, I want to get the extra power. while the n20 has spunk and some getup, I've found lately that it sometimes wants to hesitate - something that my cobb tune use to do a good job of counter acting. I do not like pulling into traffic and flooring the car just to hear the car sound like its about to die because it is holding back on power... I think as BMW becomes a super supplier of cars (such as Toyota and GM, Etc.) you are going to see the quality of the engine go to shit and tunes will be something you do with a fully modified engine... (and no warranty). Just my opinion...

Agreed. I also came from an 08 335 with a tune on it.

I'm just thinking that once people starting getting more into the stage 2 tune with alternative fuels making over 300wtq were going to start seeing a lot more issues than we are used to seeing comparative to that of the N54/55's. Only time will tell...

[TractionControl=OFF]

if these people want to take you up the butt, then take it to another dealership!

[TurboM]

Originally Posted by TractionControl=OFF

if these people want to take you up the butt, then take it to another dealership!

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. For large warranty claims, such as this one, BMW will send out a tech/rep (that works for BMWNA, not the dealer) to perform an assessment of the issue. The cars onboard data recording system is also networked to allow BMW to remotely download stored data in the car to assist them in determining the cause for the failure. Once BMWNA makes the determination that it is not going to be covered under warranty it doesn't matter what dealer you take the car to.

Keep in mind, generally speaking, the dealers want the work. They just want to make sure they are going to get reimbursed for it by BMW before proceeding.

[E90Boy]

Any news if BMWNA will replace your engine? I was on the fence with JB4, now I know I don't need it after all. These engines can't handle 300lbs+ of torque.

[Overshotgolem]

I just lost hop in my car ,,,,, you guys are making me want to trade it a soon as I finish paying for it hop full next year

[Overshotgolem]

You guys are dream crushers 8( i( 8(8(8(8(8(8(8(8(8(8(8(8(8((8(8(8(8

[shivaswrath]

I bet you $50 they saw the DP (if it was still on) and that's what voided it..

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

I bet you $50 they saw the DP (if it was still on) and that's what voided it..

I would agree with this as well. Who runs a down pipe without a tune? Very few if not any. I contemplated doing a DP but then i would have to get the JB4 to clear the code to keep the light off. No thanks...

[rustyminded]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

I would agree with this as well. Who runs a down pipe without a tune? Very few if not any. I contemplated doing a DP but then i would have to get the JB4 to clear the code to keep the light off. No thanks...

I have dp, the JB4 is removed for a while now never had a CEL ever just a hidden code.

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by rustyminded

I have dp, the JB4 is removed for a while now never had a CEL ever just a hidden code.

Really? OK I thought I read everywhere the CEL comes on which would be annoying. Good to know. May have to do the DP afterall.

[rustyminded]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

Really? OK I thought I read everywhere the CEL comes on which would be annoying. Good to know. May have to do the DP afterall.

I can't conclude all the dp will not give you CEL but it's very odd as I have a friend that has ER and he didn't have CEL so far only hidden codes as well but I think it has to do that the car is assembled here and there is no absolute emission control where I live lol so maybe the sensor is meant to store it only as hidden and not show it on the screen

[E90Boy]

If BMW said you tampered with the software, I'm positive they've looked into the coding and since an engine replacement is $25k they definitely would comb through the issues and not just looking at the DP.

[Seraphblade@sg]

I have the dp, JB4 on map2 and meth... There is a few more in my country with that setup and the wagner fmic.

I am hitting way above 330 with no issues. Those dudes are definitely higher.

[f30luxline]

Originally Posted by Seraphblade@sg

I have the dp, JB4 on map2 and meth... There is a few more in my country with that setup and the wagner fmic.

I am hitting way above 330 with no issues. Those dudes are definitely higher.

I've a DP and JB4 running map 7 with 50/50 e85 mix without any issues for about 6 months. I dyno'd at 360ft/lbs with this setup which by some is dangerous, again "0" issues so far.

I am still a very conservative driver on a daily basis. I use the power when it's needed and on occasional spirited driving.

Seraphblade,
I would be interested in getting to know your meth setup. I am considering this as my next power mod. If you could PM me, that would be great.

BTW, my company has a facility in SG in Jurong West.