[iceman335]

The # is amazing, and this is why I love BMW!!! But please correct me if I am wrong: I am assuming you will need a FMIC and a better cooling system(at least) in order to make the tuned engine more stable/reliable, and not even mention about the warranty. With all these extra money why not just get a 35?

[Jason]

Originally Posted by crispyturtle

Soo where and when can I get this?
I have a 328 and need the power

You don't have the N20 turbo 4 cylinder engine. You have the N52 naturally aspirated inline 6-cylinder engine. Next year's new 328i sedan will have the N20 engine.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by iceman335

The # is amazing, and this is why I love BMW!!! But please correct me if I am wrong: I am assuming you will need a FMIC and a better cooling system(at least) in order to make the tuned engine more stable/reliable, and not even mention about the warranty. With all these extra money why not just get a 35?

You don't need any of that, it will get you more power but you don't need it. My car has been tune only for over 20,000 miles without a single issue and I drive it really hard. My brother's stock M3 has issues getting warm after you drive it hard but my 135i never does.

Also, I doubt they'd ever end up as peaky as the JDM cars...those cars started out with peaky engines with too little torque. When the base engine has a flat torque curve, you have to try to ruin that.

[Uli_HH]

Hi Jason,

BMW's new 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo engine (the "N20") may be down on cylinders and displacement compared to the inline 6 cylinder (N52) that it replaces across BMW's model range, but even in factory form, it matches the outgoing N52's horsepowers and features an extra 30 lb-ft of torque (in the X1 xDrive28i, X3 xDrive28i, 528i, Z4 sDrive28i, and upcoming F30 328i), while having better fuel efficiency.

... should I miss some BMW X3 News ... X3 xDrive28i with N20???

Greet Uli

[vladberca]

These are good numbers

[Nero7]

What happens with the BMW warranty when you tune the engine with Kelleners or other aftermarket tuners?

[a_k]

Originally Posted by 111R

I wonder how much less the 328i will weigh than the 335i? That will also make a difference. Knowing BMW, they'll give the 328i smaller brakes, tires/wheels, etc., so those may need upgrades with more power.

Because of the torque for F10 also automatic transmission was different from 535i upwards. If 328 and 335 have same tranny, then there is no problem, if not then it will start hurting it as well. And also the issue of warranty...

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

People who think this engine will come anywhere close to the stock 335i is on crack.
The 335i stock is supposedly around 306hp but we all know that it is underrated and it is more like 330hp+. Then you add a tune on the 335i and it isn't even in the same ballpark.

Exactly the point I was about to make. The 335i is underrated by BMW by something like 10%. We've seen plenty of them put down 275 - 285hp at the wheels on the dyno in stock trim.

The N20 will not meet stock 335i numbers reliably without hardware mods. You will not get a 335i for 328i money plus $800.

The inline 6 is smooth and sounds beatiful. The new N20, while a fantastic motor, just insn't the legendary BMW straight 6.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Nero7

What happens with the BMW warranty when you tune the engine with Kelleners or other aftermarket tuners?

It will be voided on the powertrain components. Those sort of gains are WELL beyond what the engine was designed to produce. Such levels of tuning are sort of silly for a BMW.. perhaps if you are so inclined to tweak and tune to those levels, look at an Evo or STi.

With particular respect to the N20, I'd be very concerned about the lack of appropriate cooling after the tune, causing reduction in long term durability.

[mkoesel]

Cool, so performance should be similar to a non-tuned N55.

Small nitpick regarding the initial post - the X3 xDrive28i does not yet use the N20. It is still using the N52. It is the X3 xDrive20i that uses the N20. Presumably the xDrive28i model will switch the N20 sometime next year, probably starting with model year 2013 if I had to guess.

Also, the F20 120i mentioned in the OP does not exist yet. However it will debut in Geneva according to SCOTT, along with an F20 128i. The F21 should debut ther as well.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by stefan

It will be voided on the powertrain components. Those sort of gains are WELL beyond what the engine was designed to produce. Such levels of tuning are sort of silly for a BMW.. perhaps if you are so inclined to tweak and tune to those levels, look at an Evo or STi.

With particular respect to the N20, I'd be very concerned about the lack of appropriate cooling after the tune, causing reduction in long term durability.

I would add to this by saying that applying a software tune to any turbo engine should be accompanied by some sort of cooling upgrade. Often times, a larger or more efficient intercooler does the trick, however, improved water cooling and/or oil cooling would be prudent.

If more energy is being produced, more heat will be produced. This applies to any engine including an STI or an EVO. I would put BMW's engine construction up against Subaro or Mitsubishi any day of the week and would argue its superior. The key here is to pay attention to what cooling is in place and what would need to be added to maintain stock reliability.

[M-Power111]

this little 4 is the shit, powerful but efficient. very sexy

[stefan]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

If more energy is being produced, more heat will be produced. This applies to any engine including an STI or an EVO. I would put BMW's engine construction up against Subaro or Mitsubishi any day of the week and would argue its superior. The key here is to pay attention to what cooling is in place and what would need to be added to maintain stock reliability.

Oh I completely agree. STi's/EVOs are less reliable overall IMO but the tuning community is more robust, and replacement parts (that WILL break) are cheaper.. that's the only reason I suggested it. But yep; cooling is #1 for the N20-based platforms.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by pokerface

What are the internal differences between the 20i and the 28i N20s?

Great question. I am curious as well.

What is it about the *20i N20 that prevents it from being tuned to 294hp just like the *28i N20? If it comes down to something that's reasonably simple to change, then I predict a whole lot of 300hp 120i, 320i, and 520i in the near future.

For that matter, think about the N18B16 engine found in *16i and *18i models. This engine is basically just a longitudinally mounted Mini Cooper S engine. Don't the tuners get over 300hp from that engine too?

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

Exactly the point I was about to make. The 335i is underrated by BMW by something like 10%. We've seen plenty of them put down 275 - 285hp at the wheels on the dyno in stock trim.

The N20 will not meet stock 335i numbers reliably without hardware mods. You will not get a 335i for 328i money plus $800.

The inline 6 is smooth and sounds beatiful. The new N20, while a fantastic motor, just insn't the legendary BMW straight 6.

Okay, let me understand ... the N20 with an little tune ~$800 is not reliable without hardware mods and isn´t even in the world of the 335i ... BUT ... the N54 of the 335i with an little tune ~$800 is reliable and an far better performer than the M3 !!!

Oh my good, the N54 fanboy fraction makes me really happy ... but I can understand, that it would be hard and that, if "the best engine of the world" would getting in danger from below from an much cheaper I4 and at the same time the new M3/M4 is getting far out of reach with an innovative V6 BiTurbo with ~470hp, you are getting crazy ... its hard to loose his religion !!!

Greets Uli_HH

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by E92LNGCGY

Nice. Those are some decent gains it'll give a normal 35 engine a run for it's money. Imagine a down pipe, exhaust and intake. I can see this motoring handle 350 hp with full bolt on.

Oh Christ.... Here comes the "My 328 can beat your 335" threads. Shoot me.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

People who think this engine will come anywhere close to the stock 335i is on crack.

Can you elaborate on this? For example, just how much power will be the absolute limit for the N20 with a chip tune?

[punky8d]

Mid week bump!

[Muffnbluff]

Originally Posted by stefan

It will be voided on the powertrain components. Those sort of gains are WELL beyond what the engine was designed to produce. Such levels of tuning are sort of silly for a BMW.. perhaps if you are so inclined to tweak and tune to those levels, look at an Evo or STi.

With particular respect to the N20, I'd be very concerned about the lack of appropriate cooling after the tune, causing reduction in long term durability.

I'm sure the N20 was engineered to handle over 300hp. Look at the N54/55, it's "rated" at 300hp and yet handles well over 400hp.

Hell, my STi had 380whp for 40,000 miles when I sold it and it was kicking strong. That's a good 100+ whp over stock. I'm sure the N20 can handle an extra 40whp without a problem.

[7or8]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

Okay, let me understand ... the N20 with an little tune ~$800 is not reliable without hardware mods and isn´t even in the world of the 335i ... BUT ... the N54 of the 335i with an little tune ~$800 is reliable and an far better performer than the M3 !!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the N54 is only pushing around 8.5psi I believe, and the N20 is pushing around 17.4. So I'd think, yeah the N54 would be more reliable with a tune pushing around 17-18psi, then the n20 will be pushing into the 20's.

[M5007]

Those are some serious gains.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

Okay, let me understand ... the N20 with an little tune ~$800 is not reliable without hardware mods and isn´t even in the world of the 335i ... BUT ... the N54 of the 335i with an little tune ~$800 is reliable and an far better performer than the M3 !!!

Oh my good, the N54 fanboy fraction makes me really happy ... but I can understand, that it would be hard and that, if "the best engine of the world" would getting in danger from below from an much cheaper I4 and at the same time the new M3/M4 is getting far out of reach with an innovative V6 BiTurbo with ~470hp, you are getting crazy ... its hard to loose his religion !!!

Greets Uli_HH

I don't know where all the smack talk and name calling came from... I didn't even mention the M3. By the way, tuning a 335i does not make it an M3 either as the M3 is special in its own way. And to correct you here, the new 335i is running the N55, not the N54.

I would also point out that my comments regarding needing more cooling, etc. applies to any tuned turbocharged car, not just the new 328i.