[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by goodbyalfa

The only thing I'd add about sport+, is be very careful in the wet with these powerful engines. It makes the rear end pretty lively!!! I feel somewhat safer in sport with the nanny aids enabled...

Yes sport is the safer alternative when in the wet. You can spin out in sport + so be careful and use your judgement in engaging it and driving within the car and your ability.

[rossm]

Sport plus just allows a little bit of wheel slip but still has electronic safety net of DSC and partial traction control. AFAIK sport and sport + are the same in terms of gearbox change speed and no change in terms of adaptive damping

DSC button press for +3 seconds turns off DSC + traction control completely

[DThr33]

Originally Posted by rossm

Sport plus just allows a little bit of wheel slip but still has electronic safety net of DSC and partial traction control. AFAIK sport and sport + are the same in terms of gearbox change speed and no change in terms of adaptive damping

DSC button press for +3 seconds turns off DSC + traction control completely

Is there any way to get the car in sport/sport+ while having the dsc/traction control off? It seems to go back into comfort whenever I turn it off, and re-enable it when I go back into sport/sport+

[DriveS]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Be good if someone updated that table for newer cars as it's changed since then, for example sport mode now uses 8th...

I don't think the performance is different between sport and + but the way it's delivered is. In my m140 if I go from sport to + it drops a gear.

That is one thing that gets on my nerves about SPORT mode. Not using 8th Gear. So most times I will shift into DS and manual.

Does anyone know if sport mode can be coded to use the 8th gear for the older cars?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by DThr33

Is there any way to get the car in sport/sport+ while having the dsc/traction control off? It seems to go back into comfort whenever I turn it off, and re-enable it when I go back into sport/sport+

Switching the throttle back to 'normal/comfort' when engaging DSC OFF, was a deliberate decision by BMW. Goes back to the F01 when DDC (Driving Dynamics Control), the modes feature was introduced.

Here's a quote from the F01 data.

Although initially it may seem astonishing that the accelerator pedal characteristic remains in the normal configuration in both "Traction" and "DSC off" modes, this setting is deliberate. When driving off on a loose subsurface and also when driving in a highly sports-oriented manner with the DSC switched off, it is especially important that the driver can apply engine torque extremely sensitively. This is much easier to do using a normal rather than a more sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic.

The sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic translates the accelerator pedal angle into a higher torque requirement at the engine. This torque requirement is then also put into effect more quickly by the engine control system.

As a result, the driver perceives the response characteristics of the drive, and therefore the vehicle, as more sports-oriented. However, the driver cannot use this to apply engine torque sensitively.

Bold sections added by me, for clarity.

Helps explain BMW's reasoning for backing off the sport settings, when DSC is switched off.

[1966-TR4]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Switching the throttle back to 'normal/comfort' when engaging DSC OFF, was a deliberate decision by BMW. Goes back to the F01 when DDC (Driving Dynamics Control), the modes feature was introduced.

Here's a quote from the F01 data.



Bold sections added by me, for clarity.

Helps explain BMW's reasoning for backing off the sport settings, when DSC is switched off.

Also helps explain why I prefer to drive with Chassis only in Sport. Don't really see the point of shorter pedal travel for the accelerator (which is functionally what Sport/+ does) as it makes it more difficult to finesse the application of torque with your foot.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 1966-TR4

Also helps explain why I prefer to drive with Chassis only in Sport. Don't really see the point of shorter pedal travel for the accelerator (which is functionally what Sport/+ does) as it makes it more difficult to finesse the application of torque with your foot.

That's how I drive, chassis only. Use the shifter/paddles for more eager gear selection.

I also feel a less sensitive and more linear throttle modulation is better for normal and consistent driving. Plus it is more appropriate for yielding better mpg returns.

[fwabbly]

I feel like I have more control over the accelerator when in sport/+. In comfort it feels more hesitant and seems like there is a dead spot at the start of the pedals travel.

I wish the accelerator sensitivity was something that you could choose as part of the mode setup.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by fwabbly

I feel like I have more control over the accelerator when in sport/+. In comfort it feels more hesitant and seems like there is a dead spot at the start of the pedals travel.

I wish the accelerator sensitivity was something that you could choose as part of the mode setup.

I agree, there is a dead spot and delay in response in comfort mode vs. ease of modulation in sport+ and better throttle response. I also wish there was a way to have sport+ chassis and throttle with light steering, I guess they want you to get an M3 in order to do that. Also wish you could have full traction control turned on in sport+. Or even turn off traction control completely in sport+. The earlier poster said it was because you can't modulate the throttle as well so they only allow it in comfort mode, which may be BMW's logic, but I disagree I can modulate it better but would like the full nanny's if I want it anyway, so I can't spin out unless I really want to.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

I agree, there is a dead spot and delay in response in comfort mode vs. ease of modulation in sport+ and better throttle response. I also wish there was a way to have sport+ chassis and throttle with light steering, I guess they want you to get an M3 in order to do that. Also wish you could have full traction control turned on in sport+. Or even turn off traction control completely in sport+. The earlier poster said it was because you can't modulate the throttle as well so they only allow it in comfort mode, which may be BMW's logic, but I disagree I can modulate it better but would like the nanny's if I want it anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised that BMW give an 'individual' sport mode configuration in the next generation 3-series. G30/31 has individual sport setting options, plus the Adaptive mode with the correct options.

[1966-TR4]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

I agree, there is a dead spot and delay in response in comfort mode vs. ease of modulation in sport+ and better throttle response. I also wish there was a way to have sport+ chassis and throttle with light steering, I guess they want you to get an M3 in order to do that. Also wish you could have full traction control turned on in sport+. Or even turn off traction control completely in sport+. The earlier poster said it was because you can't modulate the throttle as well so they only allow it in comfort mode, which may be BMW's logic, but I disagree I can modulate it better but would like the full nanny's if I want it anyway, so I can't spin out unless I really want to.

The steering is more or less the reason I have stopped using Sport much. For the first 10 months of ownership I used Sport exclusively, as the damping felt well matched to the ACS springs. However the steering in Sport is is terrible, and a fortnight in Comfort has made me realise there is more nuance available in the steering than I had realised. Especially with the quick rack effect of VSS.

So the damping is now not quite where I would like it, but the steering feels a lot better.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by 1966-TR4

Also helps explain why I prefer to drive with Chassis only in Sport. Don't really see the point of shorter pedal travel for the accelerator (which is functionally what Sport/+ does) as it makes it more difficult to finesse the application of torque with your foot.

It's not just Pedal travel though in sport drivetrain setting that's different though is it.. the gears shift at a higher rpm in sport mode compared with comfort mode which means the car should be slightly faster as well.

[MashinBenzin]

I conducted a couple of very brief tests on the drive to work this morning, in the limited space available...

Cruise control on, to equalise things as much as possible, then switching through the modes, only staying in each mode for a couple of seconds.

At 32mph in normal auto

• Eco-Pro - around 900rpm
• Comfort - around 900rpm (same as eco-pro)
• Sport - around 1300rpm (change down a gear from Comfort)
• Sport+ - around 1700 rpm (changed down a gear from Sport)

At 53mph in normal auto

• Eco-Pro - around 1100rpm
• Comfort - around 1100rpm (same as eco-pro)
• Sport - around 1600rpm (change down a gear from Comfort)
• Sport+ - around 2000 rpm (changed down a gear from Sport)

At 49mph in Sports auto

• Eco-Pro - around 1100rpm (gear S6)
• Comfort - around 1100rpm (gear S6)
• Sport - around 1600rpm (gear S5)
• Sport+ - around 1600 rpm (gear S5)

In all cases, as expected, cruise control immediately disconnects when Sport+ is selected.

Far from definitive, but there are clearly engine speeds where selection of Sport+ will result in a downshift. Also, the Sports gearbox mode showed different behaviour to the normal mode, albeit at a slightly different engine speed - no downshift on switching to Sport+.

I used cruise control as otherwise it's necessary to decrease pressure on the throttle to maintain the same road speed when cycling up the modes.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I conducted a couple of very brief tests on the drive to work this morning, in the limited space available...

Far from definitive, but there are clearly engine speeds where selection of Sport+ will result in a downshift. Also, the Sports gearbox mode showed different behaviour to the normal mode, albeit at a slightly different engine speed - no downshift on switching to Sport+.

Same observations as me.

There is a change in gearbox programming when moving to Sport+ from Sport. (See it in my car). Clearly they can overlap at some speeds as we would expect. Most times my gearbox does change down a gear.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Same observations as me.

There is a change in gearbox programming when moving to Sport+ from Sport. (See it in my car). Clearly they can overlap at some speeds as we would expect. Most times my gearbox does change down a gear.

But what about sport in DS mode vs sport+ in DS mode?
Are they the same? I can see from the post above that sport in D seems to be inbetween comfort in D and sport+ in D .. but sport and sport+ in DS seem to be in the same gear

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Hooded

But what about sport in DS mode vs sport+ in DS mode?
Are they the same? I can see from the post above that sport in D seems to be inbetween comfort in D and sport+ in D .. but sport and sport+ in DS seem to be in the same gear

That's where HighlandPete 's overlap comment comes in.

Had I been able to do the Sport auto mode test at the same 53mph as the D mode test, then the result might have been different (albeit mainly as a result of me cruising gently into the back of the car in front )

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

That's where HighlandPete 's overlap comment comes in.

Had I been able to do the Sport auto mode test at the same 53mph as the D mode test, then the result might have been different (albeit mainly as a result of me cruising gently into the back of the car in front )

More testing needs doing I guess to get conclusive results ..

Here's my educated guess from the current results we have for drivetrain only settings:

Comfort mode in D is generally 1 gear lower than sport in D
Sport in D is generally 1 gear lower than sport+ in D
Comfort in DS is the same as sport in D
Sport in DS is the same as sport+ in D
Sport and sport+ are the same in DS apart from the traction control differences.

Work on that assumption to begin with and see if there's any more variation on that.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Hooded

More testing needs doing I guess to get conclusive results ..

Here's my educated guess from the current results we have for drivetrain only settings:

Comfort mode in D is generally 1 gear lower than sport in D
Sport in D is generally 1 gear lower than sport+ in D
Comfort in DS is the same as sport in D
Sport in DS is the same as sport+ in D
Sport and sport+ are the same in DS apart from the traction control differences.

Work on that assumption to begin with and see if there's any more variation on that.

I wouldn't assume the last point based on my one-off test; I'm more inclined to Pete's overlap theory. Some engine speeds will see a downshift between modes, others won't. Given the similar aim of Sport and Sport+, the need for a downshift won't exist at certain engine speeds.

And no doubt different for every engine. The torque delivery at low revs in a 35d would likely necessitate a different approach to the high rev power of a 40i. i.e. worth dropping a cog in the 40i, less so in the 35d.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I wouldn't assume the last point based on my one-off test; I'm more inclined to Pete's overlap theory. Some engine speeds will see a downshift between modes, others won't. Given the similar aim of Sport and Sport+, the need for a downshift won't exist at certain engine speeds.

And no doubt different for every engine. The torque delivery at low revs in a 35d would likely necessitate a different approach to the high rev power of a 40i. i.e. worth dropping a cog in the 40i, less so in the 35d.

I was combining your posted results with the table from the 2014 335i when I came to the conclusions I just posted. You could be right though, it may depend on the speed traveling, which engine you have, as well as the year of the car etc

[1966-TR4]

Originally Posted by Hooded

It's not just Pedal travel though in sport drivetrain setting that's different though is it.. the gears shift at a higher rpm in sport mode compared with comfort mode which means the car should be slightly faster as well.

I just use stick left when I want that. In the diesels, with such a short power band, I tend to regard the higher rpm in sport as useful for cornering (with xDrive particularly), rather than giving any advantage in straight line acceleration. It can also be useful on the motorway to pro actively drop a gear just before a burst of acceleration, rather than let the box work out what it wants to do.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I wouldn't assume the last point based on my one-off test; I'm more inclined to Pete's overlap theory. Some engine speeds will see a downshift between modes, others won't. Given the similar aim of Sport and Sport+, the need for a downshift won't exist at certain engine speeds.

And no doubt different for every engine. The torque delivery at low revs in a 35d would likely necessitate a different approach to the high rev power of a 40i. i.e. worth dropping a cog in the 40i, less so in the 35d.

Different road speeds and loads do have influence on the down changing in my experience. Not always exactly the same gear changing on switching modes or putting the shifter across to M/S.

Here's a bit of observation from experimenting, which I posted a couple of years back in another thread on the subject of differences between the shifter to M/S vs. Sport mode. Supports my often commented observation that Sport mode (drivetrain checked) is a sort of half-way gearbox programming.

OK, so I'm in sport mode travelling along at 50 - 60mph, with drivetrain+chassis configured ahead of switching to sport, (or can do it real time as the display comes up and I have the option to configure). I have noted the gearbox change down to 7th on switching to sport mode, and the throttle becomes more sensitive, as expected. Now I flick the stick across to M/S and the gearbox changes down another gear, I'm now in 6th. So there is a change in the programming. If I'm in sport with the stick in D and then go to sport+ and I flick to M/S, the same happens, it drops to 6th again. I also note if I'm in normal (comfort) mode and flick the stick, it will drop the 2 gears in one go.

Conclusion in my setup, M/S means a double change down while cruising along. Sport mode is one down change, but goes to the double change with the stick. Looks like a halfway house. So yes, M/S does work differently than the sport mode.