[ChaosBroker]

Originally Posted by gator15

.... I have not seen a Cadillac driver that isn't a senior citizen.

Florida is Heaven's waiting room, so this isn't surprising.

Here, for example, e90's are seemingly more common than Chevy cars, which is also an oddity of the locality, but not representative of the numbers nationwide. I like choice, so I'm happy that Caddy might have created a viable one in the ATS.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by swanson

But the same can be said about BMW. The average driver may not be a senior citizen, but I do see a lot of douchebags and girls driving them. A lot of people avoid BMW for this very reason. I think this ATS and the new upcoming CTS will change the image at Cadillac a lot. And once those new V versions come out, BMW and whomever else, better be ready.

He has a point. While the ATS is a competitive product, it's hurdle is to capture the mindset of the mass population and sway them away from the German three. If they're not going BMW, they're looking at Audi or Mercedes and vice versa. And with the Cadillac being competitively priced (without rebates/discounts) they don't have an advantage.

[Remonster]

Looks like a pretty nice car, but on paper it seems a little too close to the CTS in size and price...maybe they're planning to make the next CTS a little bigger.

I just hope the V gets the N/A V8 that American buyers will certainly expect, don't worry about what the Germans are doing just make sure the performance is up to par with the next M3 and the others and there will be plenty of buyers.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by ATS

First of all, I'm very pissed that Cadillac used my initials (and username) to name their new car without my authorization.

Regarding the car itself, I would never consider an american car as serious competition to any european car. Don't care how fast or how well built they might say it is, I'm sure the quality will be MILES away from BMW or any other european competitor.

I have no doubt that behind the skin they used a bunch of low quality parts from lesser GM models, which will inevitably fail as time goes by. Just look at what happened to Mercedes during their Chrysler years.

Their quality is still suffering. THey have come back but not 100%. Mercedes is one of the lowest quality manufacturers for the past 10 yrs.

[jwickers]

They will have to give big incentives to capture market shares in this segment. If the price is too close to the Germans I don't see who would be interested.

Quality wise I don't think it is any worse than the others, BMW has it share of issues ...

[shoptb]

I think that the ATS is a sharp looking car, from the exterior. However, when moving inside the vehicle, I just absolutely HATE General Motors interior design. Maybe it's just bad memories growing up with these crappy pieces of plastic falling off of Pontiac Firebirds and Chevy Cavaliers, but there's just something that feels cheap about it, no matter how well it's leathered and chromed. For example, I see those steering wheels stalk controls and think of how flimsy they feel on rental cars. No matter how efficient the engines are developed, how much the steering is refined, and how sexy the body lines are molded....I just can't get myself past the big barrier that is GM interior design.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by gator15

I am skeptical because even with their new lineup of cars, I have not seen a Cadillac driver that isn't a senior citizen.

+1 even all of the CTS-V's I have seen are being driven by people at least in the their early 60's.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by ATS

First of all, I'm very pissed that Cadillac used my initials (and username) to name their new car without my authorization.

Regarding the car itself, I would never consider an american car as serious competition to any european car. Don't care how fast or how well built they might say it is, I'm sure the quality will be MILES away from BMW or any other european competitor.

I have no doubt that behind the skin they used a bunch of low quality parts from lesser GM models, which will inevitably fail as time goes by. Just look at what happened to Mercedes during their Chrysler years.

Maybe you might want to look at the youtube vids of the chassis and damping, before you make such bold assumptions, fanboi. Afterall, Ferrari is using a version of GM's damping system, and wasn't there other Euro companies using GM trannys?
And lets not forget that many an old skool GM, Ford, and Mopar engine is damn near bullet proof, compared that to BMW's current engines. And especially their (GM, Ford) Inline 6's....

I'll wait and see, but I think GM is serious, they made a base hit with the 1st gen CTS-V, and they knocked it out of the park with the 2nd gen CTS-V sedan and CTS-V coupe.

[jwickers]

On closer look at the vids, i like the dark red interior. The lots of glossy black + touchscreen seem like dust / fingerprint magnets though.

Certainly worth a look, as i see the CTS and 328Li at the same price range, if the ATS 2.0T is priced right ... i wonder if they'll do a LWB version too in China.

[adamsclubs]

Originally Posted by shoptb

I think that the ATS is a sharp looking car, from the exterior. However, when moving inside the vehicle, I just absolutely HATE General Motors interior design. Maybe it's just bad memories growing up with these crappy pieces of plastic falling off of Pontiac Firebirds and Chevy Cavaliers, but there's just something that feels cheap about it, no matter how well it's leathered and chromed. For example, I see those steering wheels stalk controls and think of how flimsy they feel on rental cars. No matter how efficient the engines are developed, how much the steering is refined, and how sexy the body lines are molded....I just can't get myself past the big barrier that is GM interior design.

From the photos I didn't like the interior either, surprisingly all the reviews so far seem to praise the interior even above the new 3 series.

Maybe in person it looks different. I am concerned about all the state of art tech stuff, thinking what happened to Ford and its reliability ratings.

I know people pay a lot of attention to 0-60 and 1/4 mile, but the two biggest issues I have with my E90 328i are body roll and ecu not best tuned for cornering.

The reviews seem to indicate the ATS will not have those issues.

[gator15]

Originally Posted by shoptb

I think that the ATS is a sharp looking car, from the exterior. However, when moving inside the vehicle, I just absolutely HATE General Motors interior design. Maybe it's just bad memories growing up with these crappy pieces of plastic falling off of Pontiac Firebirds and Chevy Cavaliers, but there's just something that feels cheap about it, no matter how well it's leathered and chromed. For example, I see those steering wheels stalk controls and think of how flimsy they feel on rental cars. No matter how efficient the engines are developed, how much the steering is refined, and how sexy the body lines are molded....I just can't get myself past the big barrier that is GM interior design.

I totally agree and I think that this is where GM fails time and time again. My spouse bought a Volt last November and we already can't wait to get rid of it. In fact, it would already be gone if we didn't decide to wait for the new X5. The car is really amazing, the technology of it is quite remarkable. It drives great, is surprisingly powerful and I like the looks of it. However, as soon as you step into the interior, all of that is forgotten. The driver visibility is horrid and the nav/audio/climate controls are the worst I have ever seen. The touch screen is completely unworkable and worst of all, controls everything in the car. It seems like GM totally forgot about the driver in their quest to make a great electric car. If it wasn't for the horrible interior and lack of focus on the driver, we would love the car.

[adamsclubs]

Originally Posted by shoptb

I think that the ATS is a sharp looking car, from the exterior. However, when moving inside the vehicle, I just absolutely HATE General Motors interior design. Maybe it's just bad memories growing up with these crappy pieces of plastic falling off of Pontiac Firebirds and Chevy Cavaliers, but there's just something that feels cheap about it, no matter how well it's leathered and chromed. For example, I see those steering wheels stalk controls and think of how flimsy they feel on rental cars. No matter how efficient the engines are developed, how much the steering is refined, and how sexy the body lines are molded....I just can't get myself past the big barrier that is GM interior design.

I had driven a Cruze Eco 6mt, not only was it fun to drive, the interior was the best I had seen among its class, at the time.

So I will have to see the ATS in person to make a judgment. I am skeptical of the touch screen though. The car seems to be built for an auto enthusiast and older, but the high techs built for an iPad junkie that is younger.

ATS is forcing each group to learn new tricks.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

And especially their (GM, Ford) Inline 6's....

What recent Ford and GM models have inline 6's? The last American I-6 I was aware of was the Jeep 4.0L, which was designed by AMC in 1964, and last used in the 2001 Cherokee, 2004 Grand Cherokee, and 2006 Wrangler. Chevy's last one went away in 1984, Ford's in 1980. This is EONS ago, and completely irrelevant to a discussion about the F30 and ATS.

[DrivenByE30]

Aside from BMW's compatriots MB and Audi...

The first generation Lexus IS was the first outside real competition to the BMW,
then came the Infiniti G35...

10 years later, Both of those japanese car have got a good and fair share of the market segment of the Sport Sedan.

My guess is: since the ATS seems very promising, i dont see why it would not steal another part of the market...

competition and diversity is good for the customer...
But for BMW, they would have to work harder if they want to regain their share...

[williewonkerz]

ATS will sell well, but its not taking away from the Audi or BMW crowd (much). If anything, Infiniti and Lexus should be very, very worried

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by williewonkerz

ATS will sell well, but its not taking away from the Audi or BMW crowd (much). If anything, Infiniti and Lexus should be very, very worried

ATS will sell well... it will take away a bit from each :


Cadillac CTS owners
BMW
Mercedes
Lexus
Infiniti
Audi

.... in that order

[alep85]

Originally Posted by ATS

First of all, I'm very pissed that Cadillac used my initials (and username) to name their new car without my authorization.

Regarding the car itself, I would never consider an american car as serious competition to any european car. Don't care how fast or how well built they might say it is, I'm sure the quality will be MILES away from BMW or any other european competitor.

I have no doubt that behind the skin they used a bunch of low quality parts from lesser GM models, which will inevitably fail as time goes by. Just look at what happened to Mercedes during their Chrysler years.

This is such a dated viewpoint on Cadillac, it's not even funny. The latest generation CTS is proof of this. Although certainly not perfect, GM's building a lot of great models these days that I'd consider alongside imports.

Also, don't think that just because a car is European, it's immediately built better than a domestic car. VW and Audi prove that time and time again. Their engines leak oil and their cars are known to have terrible reliability and electrical problem.....I wouldn't call that quality. Again, just a terribly blind viewpoint to have regarding cars in general.

That being said, I think the ATS has its work cut out for itself against the F30 3 series.

[alep85]

Originally Posted by neilvosko

All I am saying is that there are tons of caddys in retirement houses while bmws are on the road and track. And if you want to sell you need to target below retirement age. Sorry caddy.

What do you think they're trying to do by building a 3-series competitor? I don't think they're aiming for old people with the ATS, you can tell by the ads they're releasing that they're going straight for the young, affluent demographic.....basically, 3 series buyers.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by alep85

This is such a dated viewpoint on Cadillac, it's not even funny. The latest generation CTS is proof of this. Although certainly not perfect, GM's building a lot of great models these days that I'd consider alongside imports.

Also, don't think that just because a car is European, it's immediately built better than a domestic car. VW and Audi prove that time and time again. Their engines leak oil and their cars are known to have terrible reliability and electrical problem.....I wouldn't call that quality. Again, just a terribly blind viewpoint to have regarding cars in general.

That being said, I think the ATS has its work cut out for itself against the F30 3 series.

If only the ignorant fanboi would understand this. I can give you some horrible stories of european cars in my family. MUCH MUCH worse then any domestic we've owned.

[shabadoo25]

Originally Posted by shoptb

However, when moving inside the vehicle, I just absolutely HATE General Motors interior design.

I have been inside a co-worker's SRX. Everything about it just screams, "not that nice but trying really hard to fool you into believing so."

In the showiest, tackiest way possible, of course.

[Hoosiers]

Yup, when I was a teen I had a mustang and although crude, I beat the crap out of it and it was bullet proof. Way more problems with my e46 and clk55.

[jtuds]

The 3.6 liter ATS is only 710 bucks less than a 335i base price. And it's slower. Not nearly enough to make me look at it, unless the base model is loaded