[hollandog]

Originally Posted by dL.

They still can in Canada.

dL

I see. Didn't notice he's in Toronto. I like the move to make EBII more exclusive.

[Beowulf65]

xDrive is variable drive distribution, not variable traction distribution. It can improve the real world traction because extra (x) drive can be sent to one axle relative to another when the surface beneath that axle provides better traction than the surface below the other axle. This is evident in trying to start off on a slippery up-slope. As well, acceleration of the vehicle is improved because drive is provided to 4 wheels rather than two and this provides a more stable and balanced torque transfer from tires to the road surface.

I drove a FWD Maxima for 14 years...much more difficult to start forward and get up a slippery slope. Also, floor it from a standstill and enjoy the torque steer. This was mostly due to the unequal halfshaft lengths inherent in the FWD engine/transmission/differential configuration. However it was also a function of differing tire to road surface traction on the two sides of the car. RWD does not have the first problem as the halfshafts are equal. However, it is affected by differing tire to road surface traction. Interesting that Bimmers with xDrive are a bit faster from 0-100kph...or 0-60mph if you are south of the border.

I have never tested the xDrive for "fishtailing" tendencies, however as the xDrive is RWD biased, I would expect it to show more of that than an AWD system that was FWD biased. Anyone have any experience of this...comments?

[Fender150]

It works great when u know what u are doing as far as corner exit speed, also i use engine breaking often with my 6mt, so u are breaking actively with 4 wheels not just the rear. You can fix ride height and tires and what not. If there was no advantage to 4wd wrc cars would be rwd, imho

[Beowulf65]

Originally Posted by Fender150

It works great when u know what u are doing as far as corner exit speed, also i use engine breaking often with my 6mt, so u are breaking actively with 4 wheels not just the rear. You can fix ride height and tires and what not. If there was no advantage to 4wd wrc cars would be rwd, imho

Ahh...good point: 4 wheel engine braking. Compared to RWD, entering a corner a bit slower and accelerating harder just at the apex may be the ticket with xDrive?

[RM7]

There's always the a-hole that claims they can drive just fine in the winter on frozen lakes with RWD on racing slicks.

I live in a climate where I need the AWD. FWD works pretty good too here, but RWD is a freaking mess, scary as hell. You can make it a little better with studded tires, but going up steep hills and on glare ice it's still sketchy as hell. I had my RWD car for two winters up here and it was not fun to drive in the snow and ice. I will say that stability control is pretty impressive, kicks the rear end back into a straight line, but other than that the wheels spin so easily that you are putting yourself at significant risk up here driving a rear wheel drive sports-type car in the dead of winter. A manual fares much better than auto as far as feathering the clutch during icy conditions, but driving like that with a manual is like trying to tip-toe all day long, it gets old REAL fast. Luckily, winter is getting less and less every year and it's only from Nov-March now really, so there's that, but during those months, unless you got a real heavy vehicle with a lot of weight on the axles, AWD of some kind makes a lot of sense and gives you the ability to drive safely in many conditions.

I've also lived in environments at 5000' and higher where the snow sublimated in a matter of hours and did not stay around for more than a few hours, or in wetter climates a few days maybe, in many places in the west it's simply not the issue that people and dealers make it out to be, the roads are plowed or the situation resolves itself in a couple days. Up here if it snows an inch, that inch is here all winter, packed into some form of ice. My parents are convinced their AWD subaru is doing something for them in Texas, whereas I noticed my RWD V8 car far outclassed my WRX in the wet as far as traction, the bigger tires, lower CG and stiffer suspension was no match for the WRX. Only in the icy conditions did the WRX start to be better, and only then if I was running something other than performance tires. In many environments the necessity of AWD is blown out of proportion, but on the other side of the equation we got the guys claiming they are running RWD slicks through 5 feet of snow...

Balance.

Got me some rare 18x40x245 studded tires.

[Touring]

Made this yesterday. It's steeper than it looks. Would be impossible with a RWD. That's why I bought it :-)

[tc328]

Snow in the midwest is childs play here...no offense

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by hollandog

Because EBII is now customer order only. Dealers can't order that color for MY 2016.

Oh, did not know that. Thanks

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by hollandog

Because EBII is now customer order only. Dealers can't order that color for MY 2016.

Originally Posted by Fender150

It works great when u know what u are doing as far as corner exit speed, also i use engine breaking often with my 6mt, so u are breaking actively with 4 wheels not just the rear. You can fix ride height and tires and what not. If there was no advantage to 4wd wrc cars would be rwd, imho

Are the streets you live on like a WRC Rally course?

[flynnjon]

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by Touring

Made this yesterday. It's steeper than it looks. Would be impossible with a RWD. That's why I bought it :-)

Why would anyone want to do this in real life, let alone with a RWD BMW???

[lens]

It's quite funny to see people bash xDrive or AWD in general.

Then they get stuck in their parking spot/lights after a snow dump happens and wonder why, I saw it all the time outside my house when it snows over 35CM overnight, people shovel and shovel, and can't get out.

Meanwhile I shovel half the side of my car and easily come out with problems. Mind you, I live where winter tires are mandatory so all seasons are out of the question.

I also saw someone turn at a intersection, brake as they were doing so to avoid fishtailing, and get stuck mid intersection. I didn't think it was possible for it to happen.

It was the same with my neighbor who had an Audi RS5, we both smile at each other as when I came home as he was getting his car out effortlessly.

If you live where you get 5-10cm and call that snow and have RWD and then say xDrive is useless, you have no say in this at all. There is a HUGE difference between RWD and xDrive where RWD and winters can't help you, and where xDrive and winters will.

[int]

Originally Posted by EspeciallyinMI

I just traded my X5 in on a 2013 335i xDrive and have been looking forward to testing it in the snow. The horrible storm that hit the Midwest yesterday gave me the chance. Amazing traction (all season Continentals), especially going 30 MPH on a snow-covered expressway using EcoPro. Always felt in control. Don't miss the X5 at all. Similar stories, anyone?

Funny, that's exactly what I did - went from an E70 X5 to my 2013 F30 335xi-msport a few months ago. Was worried, living in Montreal, what that would be like once winter hit. The height of the X5 was nice in our 30+cm snow storms and snow piles, but super impressed at how the F30 handles the tough weather!

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by chaungo

It's quite funny to see people bash xDrive or AWD in general.

Then they get stuck in their parking spot/lights after a snow dump happens and wonder why, I saw it all the time outside my house when it snows over 35CM overnight, people shovel and shovel, and can't get out.

Meanwhile I shovel half the side of my car and easily come out with problems. Mind you, I live where winter tires are mandatory so all seasons are out of the question.

I also saw someone turn at a intersection, brake as they were doing so to avoid fishtailing, and get stuck mid intersection. I didn't think it was possible for it to happen.

It was the same with my neighbor who had an Audi RS5, we both smile at each other as when I came home as he was getting his car out effortlessly.

If you live where you get 5-10cm and call that snow and have RWD and then say xDrive is useless, you have no say in this at all. There is a HUGE difference between RWD and xDrive where RWD and winters can't help you, and where xDrive and winters will.

Sure that's fine. But realize most of the people buying xdrives are the same people who get 5-10cm and call it snow! And xdrives absolutely drive differently from RWD models. The steering is totally different. Ever notice how you have to unwind the xdrive steering wheel to return it to center? Well the rwd will unwind itself on its own. It has much more connection to the road. Not to mention the extra 200 lbs and increased ride Height which makes the car higher and less nimble.

[hollandog]

Originally Posted by chaungo

It's quite funny to see people bash xDrive or AWD in general.

Then they get stuck in their parking spot/lights after a snow dump happens and wonder why, I saw it all the time outside my house when it snows over 35CM overnight, people shovel and shovel, and can't get out.

Meanwhile I shovel half the side of my car and easily come out with problems. Mind you, I live where winter tires are mandatory so all seasons are out of the question.

I also saw someone turn at a intersection, brake as they were doing so to avoid fishtailing, and get stuck mid intersection. I didn't think it was possible for it to happen.

It was the same with my neighbor who had an Audi RS5, we both smile at each other as when I came home as he was getting his car out effortlessly.

If you live where you get 5-10cm and call that snow and have RWD and then say xDrive is useless, you have no say in this at all. There is a HUGE difference between RWD and xDrive where RWD and winters can't help you, and where xDrive and winters will.

You know there are people buying xDrive with 19" performance tires and think they are set for the winter because they have xDrive?

There are too many of them here where winter tires are not mandatory. I'm tired to argue or educate them already.

[lens]

Originally Posted by hollandog

You know there are people buying xDrive with 19" performance tires and think they are set for the winter because they have xDrive?

There are too many of them here where winter tires are not mandatory. I'm tired to argue or educate them already.

Let nature take it's course

No need to waste your time on it. I know some people who go "I'm good with all seasons" in ontario, and they end up in the ditch.

[benbenwin]

Originally Posted by CHCCubs

Braking and turning are where proper winter tires will come into play. xDrive won't do anything to help you stop or turn better in the snow.

Agreed.

[hollandog]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Let nature take it's course

No need to waste your time on it. I know some people who go "I'm good with all seasons" in ontario, and they end up in the ditch.

It was funny talking to them.
Couple of my friends warned me on getting RWD in NYC.

Friend: Dude you're gonna garage your car in the winter.
Me: No I'm fine.
Friend: I had the G35 RWD coupe before and it couldn't handle any snow.
Me: Did you have winter tires on?
Friend: I didn't but trust me it won't work even with winter tires. You better get AWD.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by hollandog

It was funny talking to them.
Couple of my friends warned me on getting RWD in NYC.

Friend: Dude you're gonna garage your car in the winter.
Me: No I'm fine.
Friend: I had the G35 RWD coupe before and it couldn't handle any snow.
Me: Did you have winter tires on?
Friend: I didn't but trust me it won't work even with winter tires. You better get AWD.

:m ad0259:

[hollandog]

Originally Posted by I'm wrong

:m ad0259:

and a random post from my Facebook feed.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by hollandog

and a random post from my Facebook feed.

From a strict PERFORMANCE point of view he's correct.

From a safety or FUN? Not so much.

Cheers!

[goj]

Originally Posted by Ron Scott

It's the AWD xDrive system, not the tires and wheels, that's making the difference here.

Old schoolers will never give up the RWD ghost, but like it or not the F30's xDrive has the traditional RWD feel with superb traction when needed. If you can afford it it's a no-brainier.

Tires don't matter? Hmmm that's some impeccable logic