[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

In my limited time perusing BMW forums the single biggest surprise for me has been the popularity of the Driver Assistance Package (ZDA), and Driver Assistance Plus (ZDB) options.

Lets start with ZDA for $950. The Park Distance Control sensors are hideous, yet I hear nary a complaint… All while I hear cries and moans about reflectors. Rear-view camera is arguably necessary on an SUV or van, but we are talking about a compact sedan! You can handle it… Right?

Then there is ZDB for $1900. I’ll start out by admitting I really would like the Speed Limit Info. A relatively primitive form of this information is available on the PND I use now, so I feel like i’m giving it up w/o ZDB…. and ok; Active Blind Spot Detection is a nice feature for highly congested areas like NYC. Active Driving Assistant… If I had this feature in my car it would be off 100% of the time if possible. I don’t want or need the car to warn (bug) me about lane departure… And an “Attention Assistant?” Nuts! Side and Top-view cameras are just a toy IMO.

My overall point is; the popularity of what I consider “nanny” options doesn’t sync with all the enthusiast rhetoric proliferating the forum. Worse yet is how often I see people calling themselves enthusiasts prioritizing these ‘luxury’ options over say, Dynamic Handling Package, Technology Package (HUD), Active Cruise Control, leather, or Harman Kardon audio.

IMO… Unless you share the car with someone who is a poor driver (or are one yourself), ZDA/ZDB should be at the bottom of the option list, yet it seems like everybody orders them first.

[jdong]

After owning these options for 3 years on 2 cars, I totally disagree. I consider myself a good driver, who has logged 100,000+ miles on my few years of driving, and a perfectly spotless driving record.

However, I really challenge anyone to pull out of a parking spot with 3 inches of slack space to maneuver 3 or 4 times to get out. Yes, a good driver should be able to resolve their car's boundaries within 6 inches to 1 foot, but what if you have less space than that to work with?

The cameras in a well equipped 3 series allows you to have 1-2 inch resolution on objects you can collide with. I can pull my car out of spots successfully where bystanders and the valets are screaming at me to stop. That's something I don't have confidence to do in a regular car, and I'm the kind of person who would spend a weekend in a parking lot with 2 trash cans training myself on parking my car.


Also, with regards to blind spot assist, collision assist, and adaptive cruise, you have to remember that some of us use our cars to commute to and from work. Not race it at a track with other real men (tm). Sometimes we don't get enough sleep the night before. Or something awful that happens at work has our minds distracted. Or a text comes in about a family member in the hospital or a text comes in that says "Hey can I put Arco 87 octane in your car? kthxbai". There's been plenty of times where I've been preoccupied with a near accident resulting from some moron cutting me off as I'm merging on an onramp that I didn't have time to look at speed limit signs. Is it 55 or 65? Are you sure? You wanna bet that on a $500 speeding ticket and a 30% insurance hike?

Real life is distracting, and even the best of us get tempted into taking our eyes off the road. Anything that computers can do to assist, I appreciate.

If anything, I want more driver assistance features in my next car. Not less. I don't want any of them to get in the way of my ability to drive my own car, but I think the execution of these features in my BMW is pretty well balanced.

I agree that these features are not for everyone. In fact some of them cost a ton of money and are only really appropriate for those who have a lot of money to blow. I hope to one day be able to own a car like that (like the 2014 S class that can help you center your car in your lane and even preemptively absorb speed bumps using a Kinect like camera). But as someone who has drank some of the Kool Aid, trying to drive the exact same sized loaner F30 without the sensors and cameras has been a humbling experience in appreciating how confident I feel in my car.

[zeezz]

Top view was amazingly handy in Europe with all the tiny parking spots and tight roads. So, it was worth it for me.

[CLittle]

Anywhere you have to parallel park in spaces that visually could fit a Mini Cooper on a daily basis would benefit from these driver assistance packages. I kind of imagine that these places you have to expect that people are lightly tapping your car as they maneuver out of their Austin Poweresque parking spot.

I hate that they are packages though since I wanted the blind spot monitor a la carte. I personally have no use for cameras or lane departure assist.

Anyhow,who cares how the next f30 driver spends his/her cash?

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by CLittle

Anyhow,who cares how the next f30 driver spends his/her cash?

GlennQNYC

[F32]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

In my limited time perusing BMW forums the single biggest surprise for me has been the popularity of the Driver Assistance Package (ZDA), and Driver Assistance Plus (ZDB) options.

Lets start with ZDA for $950. The Park Distance Control sensors are hideous, yet I hear nary a complaint… All while I hear cries and moans about reflectors. Rear-view camera is arguably necessary on an SUV or van, but we are talking about a compact sedan! You can handle it… Right?

Then there is ZDB for $1900. I’ll start out by admitting I really would like the Speed Limit Info. A relatively primitive form of this information is available on the PND I use now, so I feel like i’m giving it up w/o ZDB…. and ok; Active Blind Spot Detection is a nice feature for highly congested areas like NYC. Active Driving Assistant… If I had this feature in my car it would be off 100% of the time if possible. I don’t want or need the car to warn (bug) me about lane departure… And an “Attention Assistant?” Nuts! Side and Top-view cameras are just a toy IMO.

My overall point is; the popularity of what I consider “nanny” options doesn’t sync with all the enthusiast rhetoric proliferating the forum. Worse yet is how often I see people calling themselves enthusiasts prioritizing these ‘luxury’ options over say, Dynamic Handling Package, Technology Package (HUD), Active Cruise Control, leather, or Harman Kardon audio.

IMO… Unless you share the car with someone who is a poor driver (or are one yourself), ZDA/ZDB should be at the bottom of the option list, yet it seems like everybody orders them first.

Agreed. Except for the leather/HK bit.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

GlennQNYC

I don't care as much as I'm pointing to an observation that baffles me a bit.

[southbynorth]

So how does the HUD fit your defination of a useful aid, rather then an expensive and unnecesary toy?

Surely it fits in exactly with the top camera's etc that you mention - sure its useful, but it isnt neccesary!

Personally, I think everyone has their unique requirements, for their own reasons - for example I wouldnt buy a car without aircon, pref climate, but my missus doesnt give a hoot about air con or climate - the options are rarely their to improve the car, but to improve your personal enjoyment and comfort of the car imo.

[johndeere]

I don't like the back up camera myself. I find that without it, when backing up I'm checking my left, my right, and behind me and the camera only adds another area to check. Now it's left, right, behind, and camera. Can't use the camera alone, since anyone can fly out of the side at any given time. I don't know. To me it's just a gimmick, and a distracting factor when backing up.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by 3magine

I don't like the back up camera myself. I find that without it, when backing up I'm checking my left, my right, and behind me and the camera only adds another area to check. Now it's left, right, behind, and camera. Can't use the camera alone, since anyone can fly out of the side at any given time. I don't know. To me it's just a gimmick, and a distracting factor when backing up.

I think if you have had a backup camera then you want it on all of your future purchases. Kind of like when I first got comfort access back in 2007 and a lot of people thought I was a gimmick. You know that I couldn't be bothered with using a key.

[BMWFanatic2008]

Driver Assistance Package would be the last option I would get (for free of course, wouldn't pay a penny for it).

People who have it probably got their cars from the lot and those usually have a bunch of useless options ordered by the dealer. Very few custom order it.

[orma]

Top view cameras = no more curb rash when parking. Super useful to me.

[Roki_014]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

In my limited time perusing BMW forums the single biggest surprise for me has been the popularity of the Driver Assistance Package (ZDA), and Driver Assistance Plus (ZDB) options.

Lets start with ZDA for $950. The Park Distance Control sensors are hideous, yet I hear nary a complaint… All while I hear cries and moans about reflectors. Rear-view camera is arguably necessary on an SUV or van, but we are talking about a compact sedan! You can handle it… Right?

this is what I thought at first, at the time I had ford explorer, and I was thinking if I can park and explorer do I really need it on a small sedan. And I am so hapy I decided to get it, I use it all the time, sensors help a lot and the cameras as well, if you never had it I understand your point but trust me once you have it you opinion on it will change for sure, its a must, plus in a few years every car will have it as a standard safety feature, get it and you wont regret it

[baw]

Originally Posted by trey100

I think if you have had a backup camera then you want it on all of your future purchases. Kind of like when I first got comfort access back in 2007 and a lot of people thought I was a gimmick. You know that I couldn't be bothered with using a key.

Had a '13 Honda with backup camera and did NOT like it well enough to order it on my 428.

To me, it was counter-intuitive to look forward at a screen rather than backward in the mirrors and turning one's head to look rearward.

[johndeere]

Originally Posted by trey100

I think if you have had a backup camera then you want it on all of your future purchases. Kind of like when I first got comfort access back in 2007 and a lot of people thought I was a gimmick. You know that I couldn't be bothered with using a key.

Have it now, and don't care for it.

[ft1339]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

In my limited time perusing BMW forums the single biggest surprise for me has been the popularity of the Driver Assistance Package (ZDA), and Driver Assistance Plus (ZDB) options.

Lets start with ZDA for $950. The Park Distance Control sensors are hideous, yet I hear nary a complaint… All while I hear cries and moans about reflectors. Rear-view camera is arguably necessary on an SUV or van, but we are talking about a compact sedan! You can handle it… Right?

Then there is ZDB for $1900. I’ll start out by admitting I really would like the Speed Limit Info. A relatively primitive form of this information is available on the PND I use now, so I feel like i’m giving it up w/o ZDB…. and ok; Active Blind Spot Detection is a nice feature for highly congested areas like NYC. Active Driving Assistant… If I had this feature in my car it would be off 100% of the time if possible. I don’t want or need the car to warn (bug) me about lane departure… And an “Attention Assistant?” Nuts! Side and Top-view cameras are just a toy IMO.

My overall point is; the popularity of what I consider “nanny” options doesn’t sync with all the enthusiast rhetoric proliferating the forum. Worse yet is how often I see people calling themselves enthusiasts prioritizing these ‘luxury’ options over say, Dynamic Handling Package, Technology Package (HUD), Active Cruise Control, leather, or Harman Kardon audio.

IMO… Unless you share the car with someone who is a poor driver (or are one yourself), ZDA/ZDB should be at the bottom of the option list, yet it seems like everybody orders them first.

I'm 100% with you on that. Well 99% because I can't even see the value of the blind spot detection and I learned to drive in an ultra-congested environment looking at 3 things before any turn: rear mirror, side mirror and blind spot in that order.

It could be that the people getting MT/DHP/other sport options and complaining about the lack of sportiness are different people than those going for the luxury and nanny options. BMW walks this very fine line and has 2 very distinct customer bases to cater for. Not an easy task at all.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by trey100

I think if you have had a backup camera then you want it on all of your future purchases. Kind of like when I first got comfort access back in 2007 and a lot of people thought I was a gimmick. You know that I couldn't be bothered with using a key.

Agree, I back into parking spots now to avoid the potential for a collision when leaving. Backing into spots *all the way back without going over* is nearly impossible without a backup camera, especially if you drive other cars every now and then and forget the exact dimensions. I would probably pay for the top down camera's if I had the choice, already rashed one wheel which set me back around $150 to get repaired. Comfort access is incredible, I would find it annoying to go back, you can get this on a Ford Focus, so I would not call it exclusively a luxury car option.

Regarding other active safety systems, like blind spot or automatic cruise control - really never driven with them so can't comment directly. Heard the complaint with ACC is the inability to get close to cars in front, so people just cut you off all the time in traffic haha. I don't see how the passive blind spot monitor (not the one that shakes the steering wheel) would be a bother, probably not worth the money though.

[ft1339]

Originally Posted by drob23

Heard the complaint with ACC is the inability to get close to cars in front, so people just cut you off all the time in traffic haha. I don't see how the passive blind spot monitor (not the one that shakes the steering wheel) would be a bother, probably not worth the money though.

I can't stand that. I drive on the highway with 2 cars lengths in front of me for safety and I can't stand people cutting me off and using my safety distance. And I also can't stand people riding my ass... In Europe drivers don't do that so ACC was designed with the proper safety distance in mind... Maybe they could have introduced a bad driver switch for the US or something...

[carzaddict]

if you live in the suburbs, where parrallel parking isnt a serious issue, then yeah id say PDC is kinda pointless to have.

but living in NYC, where you need to squeeze an elephant into a straw.....every inch is important, and you dont want to bang up your car for no reason. i dont care what judgements people make about my ability to drive or park because i have these nanny tools....that shit comes in handy

[tdizzle]

It's a luxury car. I think that explains a lot of it. Luxury = more options that you may or may not 'need'.

I didn't see a need for HUD or the parking cameras, but I find them very useful. Only option I don't have is the adaptive cruise/blind spot which I don't have all that much use for.

[puma1552]

Originally Posted by ft1339

I can't stand that. I drive on the highway with 2 cars lengths in front of me for safety and I can't stand people cutting me off and using my safety distance. And I also can't stand people riding my ass... In Europe drivers don't do that so ACC was designed with the proper safety distance in mind... Maybe they could have introduced a bad driver switch for the US or something...

I certainly wouldn't call 2 car lengths at highway speeds safe.

But to the original topic, I think some things like the backup camera might be useful for parallel parking, but only when people understand that they aren't a substitute for good judgment and skill...I've seen a couple forum posts elsewhere where someone had their car parked in the street at a friend's house only to have the neighbor across the street back out of his driveway and smash right into the car parked on the street, and blame just using the camera and not actually looking as the culprit. That's a scary thought that people back out of places using only the camera, but I think too many people will let the various driving nannies do everything, which in turn makes worse drivers and makes things more dangerous.

IMO there's something wrong with you if you can't check your blindspot or even keep your car in the lane you are driving in.

My old Camaro summer toy has no nannies whatsoever, not even ABS. You get in and it's just you, the pedals, and the steering wheel. The car is unforgiving and any mistakes you make are on yourself, not the vehicle. The car will do anything and everything you tell it to. It's much tougher to be a bad driver in a car like that where you really have to be paying attention at all times.

That said, I don't think I would order either of those packages, they seem way overpriced. The rear view camera might be nice as an a la carte option, but everything else, no thanks. I tend to like my cars with the big ticket items that you notice immediately (moonroof, good stereo, nav, keyless access, heated seats) with none of the add-on/extra junk (PDC, etc.) that you can get nickel-and-dimed on that isn't really noticeable or useful day to day. I like the "tumors without the tentacles" for lack of a better phrase.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

In my limited time perusing BMW forums the single biggest surprise for me has been the popularity of the Driver Assistance Package (ZDA), and Driver Assistance Plus (ZDB) options.

Lets start with ZDA for $950. The Park Distance Control sensors are hideous, yet I hear nary a complaint… All while I hear cries and moans about reflectors. Rear-view camera is arguably necessary on an SUV or van, but we are talking about a compact sedan! You can handle it… Right?

Want to know why? Because you are exaggerating their presence. Hideous? Ummm....okay! They aren't an eyesore and they are well integrated into the bumper. I've seen much worse examples of PDC being poorly implemented. Reflectors stand out much more than a PDC sensor, and to argue otherwise is just downright silly. Remember when you were younger and you removed that silly reflector from the spokes of your bicycle wheels (..Don't lie! We all did it!). It's the same concept. SOMETIMES that reflector does detract from the overall appearance. As for the RVC, it helps with detecting stuff that you can't otherwise see by looking over your shoulder. It is an aid that has merit.

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Then there is ZDB for $1900. I’ll start out by admitting I really would like the Speed Limit Info. A relatively primitive form of this information is available on the PND I use now, so I feel like i’m giving it up w/o ZDB…. and ok; Active Blind Spot Detection is a nice feature for highly congested areas like NYC. Active Driving Assistant… If I had this feature in my car it would be off 100% of the time if possible. I don’t want or need the car to warn (bug) me about lane departure… And an “Attention Assistant?” Nuts! Side and Top-view cameras are just a toy IMO.

Sometimes convenience and superfluous extras don't need to be justified. I'm sure that you don't complain about all of the unnecessary extras that come with your television and/or smartphone.

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

My overall point is; the popularity of what I consider “nanny” options doesn’t sync with all the enthusiast rhetoric proliferating the forum. Worse yet is how often I see people calling themselves enthusiasts prioritizing these ‘luxury’ options over say, Dynamic Handling Package, Technology Package (HUD), Active Cruise Control, leather, or Harman Kardon audio.

Hmmm! There isn't a DAILY DRIVER out there that syncs with the truest definition of a raw car enthusiast (...emphasis on daily driver....you know, the car that sees plenty of stop'n go traffic and other types of road congestion or is used for really long road trips). It would seem that the purpose of these conveniences are completely lost on you.

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

IMO… Unless you share the car with someone who is a poor driver (or are one yourself), ZDA/ZDB should be at the bottom of the option list, yet it seems like everybody orders them first.

Hmmmm, in my opinion, unless you share a car with someone who can't drive a manual, all road cars should be equipped with a manual transmission. The problem with an opinion is that it is just that, an opinion, and one opinion doesn't necessarily matter to someone who shares a different opinion. Soooooooooooo............