[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Colmsport

This is as big a slippery slope as car buying in my personal experience, which can lead to budget creep.

Turntable wise Rega are miles ahead of Project when it comes to build quality.

I started with a Planar 1 (which currently resides in a spare bedroom much to the annoyance of the Mrs) as it was upgraded to a Planar 3.

Both are great turntables, but the Planar 3 allows for upgrades more readily than a Planar 1. I’ve upgraded the cartridge to the Exact (from the standard Elyse cartridge), added a PSU & an aluminium sub platter. It’s sort of on a comparison with the Planar 6 / P6 now & to go any further will require a lot more investment.

Trouble is, after doing that, you start to look at other bits of the setup & it becomes a nightmare!! Pre amp was added (Rega Fono MM) & I changed my amp to a Rega Elex-R which is very basic as far as amps are concerned but sounds great. Plus then upgraded cabling etc etc etc.

Now looking at the speakers, currently running Q-Acoustics 3050’s, which are good but probably the ‘weak’ point in the system. Will have difficulty getting an upgrade on those past the Mrs though… Only because the spare room has a duplicate of everything now which I really need to consider selling.

It gets very addictive & to be honest when you get to a certain level there’s a massive investment required for marginal improvements.

well as I am approaching that significant birthday, my hearing isnt what it was so the best of the best isnt needed, and I will try and be happy with starter stuff for now... when I get to the point I cant put any more in my pension and my mortgage looks like its ending then I may upgrade to much better...

But for now, it will be nice to have something and enjoy buying vinyl or digging out the very old ones that are still at my Mums somewhere...

[Colmsport]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

well as I am approaching that significant birthday, my hearing isnt what it was so the best of the best isnt needed, and I will try and be happy with starter stuff for now... when I get to the point I cant put any more in my pension and my mortgage looks like its ending then I may upgrade to much better...

But for now, it will be nice to have something and enjoy buying vinyl or digging out the very old ones that are still at my Mums somewhere...

Planar 1 is a great place to start, plus the ‘Carbon’ cartridge is reasonably priced at circa £30 to replace if using on older vinyl which, dependent upon condition, could damage it. The Exact cartridge is circa £300 so I tend not to use it on my older vinyl which looks scratched or on any second hand records.

[Pond]

Just for context on this.......
Back in about 1986 I had a mate who really bought into the 'audiophile' concept. He spent over £3,000 on a stylus (yep just a stylus) and over a grand on the arm for his turntable (I think the player was a Technics, or possibly a Pioneer).
He was so excited about having the 'best' record player, he invited me to have a listen. TBH I couldn't tell any difference to my out-of-the-box cheapo turntable (£129 IIRC). We were around 19 years old, so our hearing was as good as it was gonna get too!

I honestly don't see the point in buying expensive turntables. Vinyl records create lots of hiss and crackle, which is part of their charm. The better quality stuff will just amplify those as well as everything else. If they double as a piece of furniture, then OK, cos there are some beautiful looking pieces of art out there.

BTW I have always been a fan of Denon stuff. I bought a used Denon AV amp last year for my living room stuff. It isn't a patch on my Yamaha in the other room and neither are as god as the old Sony I got rid of for the Yam. The Sony was awesome, especially in stereo with all the digital processing turned off. None are as good as dedicated analogue 2 channel amp for music, though.

[NanasBack]

If you don't want a lot of clutter and have BT headphones, try one of these.

No amp, no speakers, only one power cable.

https://www.spatialonline.co.uk/prod...kaAjUFEALw_wcB

https://www.richersounds.com/catalog...kaAj_-EALw_wcB

https://www.hifix.co.uk/teac-tn-180b...8aAjjVEALw_wcB

Or it could be used with an existing BT enabled soundbar, Sonos portable speakers maybe, whatever is already available.

Audiophile HiFi it may not be, but priced in the hundreds, not thousands.
Likely good enough for 60+ year old lugholes.

I might even give that Planar one a whirl....
.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by un1eash

Are subs required for HiFi setup?

Asking an audiophile that question is like asking some on here if EVs can be fun to drive .

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by Colmsport

This is as big a slippery slope as car buying in my personal experience, which can lead to budget creep.

Turntable wise Rega are miles ahead of Project when it comes to build quality.

I started with a Planar 1 (which currently resides in a spare bedroom much to the annoyance of the Mrs) as it was upgraded to a Planar 3.

Both are great turntables, but the Planar 3 allows for upgrades more readily than a Planar 1. I’ve upgraded the cartridge to the Exact (from the standard Elyse cartridge), added a PSU & an aluminium sub platter. It’s sort of on a comparison with the Planar 6 / P6 now & to go any further will require a lot more investment.

I don’t know if it is necessarily the case that Rega TT’s are miles better than Pro-Ject in build quality, but, like all things HiFi, I know there are going to be many on each side of that argument and it’s an “each to their own” thing, really… and, for sure, model for model each do have their pros and cons…

Pro-Ject tend to modify their models quite often and do, for me, have probably more varieties than needed… But they know their market, not me, right…

Funnily, I have a well modified Pro-Ject and did half think about swapping it out for last year’s Rega P3 special that included the PSU and cartridge upgrade… But I backed off as I needed to save money not spend even more…

Originally Posted by Colmsport

Trouble is, after doing that, you start to look at other bits of the setup & it becomes a nightmare!! Pre amp was added (Rega Fono MM) & I changed my amp to a Rega Elex-R which is very basic as far as amps are concerned but sounds great. Plus then upgraded cabling etc etc etc.

I am interested in he Fono MM Mk5, though… I use a CA phono stage at present and I am never really convinced about it… Maybe that is a good thing, though, and it’s actually its neutrality I am hearing… But I keep having an itch that there is a better phono pre amp for me out there…

Originally Posted by Colmsport

Now looking at the speakers, currently running Q-Acoustics 3050’s, which are good but probably the ‘weak’ point in the system. Will have difficulty getting an upgrade on those past the Mrs though… Only because the spare room has a duplicate of everything now which I really need to consider selling.

Swapping out your 3050’s will be quite interesting if you do it… If I recall correctly, they can be quite low/bright centric compared to the P3 and the Fono, so maybe they are the yin to the yang..?

I have the Dali Oberon 5’s and they are at the mellow end of things, but that suits the CA amp I have quite well…

Originally Posted by Colmsport

It gets very addictive & to be honest when you get to a certain level there’s a massive investment required for marginal improvements.

Yes, addictive indeed…

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Asking an audiophile that question is like asking some on here if EVs can be fun to drive .

I think it has kind of changed though in recent years, with DSP coming more into play and also people looking for more compact set ups that might have two small mid/high speakers and a little sub ticked away somewhere...

Personally, if it sounds OK to you, then it is OK for you...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by Pond

None are as good as dedicated analogue 2 channel amp for music, though.

I am most definitely still in the 2 channel camp for listening to music... But I like speakers that are not too directional so they can spread the sound out into the room (rather than being sat in a sweet spot)...

The only place where I am erring away from 2Ch is in the car where the HK "surround" in mine seems to be "better" when listening with it turned on rather than off... I think there, though, there is so much "hidden" DSP going on in car systems these days that they are almost geared up for it that way and that can work against a simple 2ch type approach... Of course, this is a fake surround as the source is 2Ch...

[isleaiw1]

This was definitely one of those questions where I expected a lot of different opinions but didnt actually realise what a pandoras box I was opening....

A trip to Harrow Audio is definitely on the cards... and a bundle makes sense as they obviously reckon they go together.... for now I'm trying to work out what the difference is between various amps... for example a Rega io versus an audiolab 6000A...

We are talking 50% price difference in the bundles they are in (and every element is different!) but I am assuming the amp and the speakers (Dali Oberon 1 versus Wharfedale Diamond 12.3) are the main reasons....

And I thought buying a car was hard!

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

This was definitely one of those questions where I expected a lot of different opinions but didnt actually realise what a pandoras box I was opening....

A trip to Harrow Audio is definitely on the cards... and a bundle makes sense as they obviously reckon they go together.... for now I'm trying to work out what the difference is between various amps... for example a Rega io versus an audiolab 6000A...

We are talking 50% price difference in the bundles they are in (and every element is different!) but I am assuming the amp and the speakers (Dali Oberon 1 versus Wharfedale Diamond 12.3) are the main reasons....

And I thought buying a car was hard!

It's all to do with their sound really...

Rega is a superb sound; very detailed and punchy, not overly bright on the top end etc...

Audiolab is very similar; but can be quite bright at the top end (I've found anyway); so what suits one, won't suit the other etc...

This is why you need to listen to a few different set ups and see which suits your ears best

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by danb1979

It's all to do with their sound really...

Rega is a superb sound; very detailed and punchy, not overly bright on the top end etc...

Audiolab is very similar; but can be quite bright at the top end (I've found anyway); so what suits one, won't suit the other etc...

This is why you need to listen to a few different set ups and see which suits your ears best

They have very different descriptions which made me think one could do a lot more than the other....

But off to harrow audio on the first chance I get to start the process of deciding....

This is what it says about the io...
The new Rega Io amplfier is the most compact amplfier in Rega's range, but also one of the most interesting. Fully analogue, with a high quality MM Phono input for your turntable, 2 Line Level inputs and a good quality headphone socket, make this little amp a versatile alternative to the usual suspects.

And this is what it says about the audiolab...
The Audiolab 6000A might be the only amplifier you will ever need. Based firmly around the 8300A series, the new 6000A encorporates a MM Phono stage, Digital and analogue inputs, Bluetooth Wireless streaming and a dedicated Headphone Amplifier. All bases covered. Employing a Sabre ESS DAC you know you are getting the best digital conversion from your streamer or digital files.

Bought individually there is £150 difference in price. I guess what I am struggling with is, does the audiolab do more but isnt any better quality at the one task I am really interested in, or is it just generally better and actually I really need those other capabilities....

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

They have very different descriptions which made me think one could do a lot more than the other....

But off to harrow audio on the first chance I get to start the process of deciding....

This is what it says about the io...
The new Rega Io amplfier is the most compact amplfier in Rega's range, but also one of the most interesting. Fully analogue, with a high quality MM Phono input for your turntable, 2 Line Level inputs and a good quality headphone socket, make this little amp a versatile alternative to the usual suspects.

And this is what it says about the audiolab...
The Audiolab 6000A might be the only amplifier you will ever need. Based firmly around the 8300A series, the new 6000A encorporates a MM Phono stage, Digital and analogue inputs, Bluetooth Wireless streaming and a dedicated Headphone Amplifier. All bases covered. Employing a Sabre ESS DAC you know you are getting the best digital conversion from your streamer or digital files.

Bought individually there is £150 difference in price. I guess what I am struggling with is, does the audiolab do more but isnt any better quality at the one task I am really interested in, or is it just generally better and actually I really need those other capabilities....

It seems that there's a whole load of digital capability in the Audiolab that there is not in the other... and from what you say you do not need the digital capability...

But.... but, but, but... it's not as easy as that to compare the two, as what you hear when you audition will be a combination of all of the elements and how they come together... a particular amp might sound great (to you) with one source/speaker combo and meh with another... somebody else might think those two are the other way around...

I remember, about 35 years or so ago, having a Mission Cyrus One amp that sounded quite nice with the Mission speakers I got with it... the speakers were not really well thought of in the magazines etc but they kind of worked well for me... I had them with an old Ariston Q Deck and that whole bundle was probably around £500 back then... I still have all three but retired now...

The Cyrus One, mind, might make a comeback for one of the small rooms...

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by DaveA

The Cyrus One, mind, might make a comeback for one of the small rooms...

I'm a huge fan of Cyrus; had the Cyrus 6VS, 6VS2, 8XP integrated amps over my time and had the One Cast most recently; bloody superb amp:

https://www.cyrusaudio.com/products/one-cast-streamer/

I had that in my office system partnered with some KEF R3s which were probably the best stand mount speakers I've ever had. Alas sold the system as it just wasn't getting used and the JBL studio monitors, TBH, suit my tastes more and sounded just as good for a fraction of the price of the Cyrus/KEF set up!

As you said Dave; the OP needs to do a lot of listening. It's the only way to dial down what sounds right to him etc

It's a fun time; as long as you keep it sensible

[isleaiw1]

Thanks DaveA, much appreciated. Like when buying a car I need to remember what is important and not get dragged in by lots of stuff that I dont really need...

But I quite like the look of the floor standing speakers

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Thanks DaveA, much appreciated. Like when buying a car I need to remember what is important and not get dragged in by lots of stuff that I dont really need...

But I quite like the look of the floor standing speakers

They do negate the need for stands

They work superbly in medium to large rooms; but obviously can be a bit overbearing in smaller rooms

But you don't have to have them blasting out all the time

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by danb1979

I'm a huge fan of Cyrus;

What Hifi did an old/new type of comparison a couple of years ago...

https://www.whathifi.com/features/ol...hich-is-better

I have the "One" version of the older amp....

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by DaveA

What Hifi did an old/new type of comparison a couple of years ago...

https://www.whathifi.com/features/ol...hich-is-better

I have the "One" version of the older amp....

I don't think they made a bad amp, did they?

It's like my Arcam amps now; I have my 1st every 'hifi' amp in the loft, an Alpha 6. It still works perfectly well and when I dust it off to listen to it, it still puts a huge smile on my face. I bought that and the AE109s as my 1st system with an Alpha 7 CDP (which broke many moons ago)

I still think now that the older stuff sounds superb and it's very hard to beat.

Just the Cyrus suited my 'small requirements' as space is valuable in my office but I also wanted it for AirPlay2 for my Mac etc

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by danb1979

They do negate the need for stands

They work superbly in medium to large rooms; but obviously can be a bit overbearing in smaller rooms

But you don't have to have them blasting out all the time

Cheers danb1979 your input very much appreciated....

As I dont have anyone to tell me my house cant look like an overgrown man cave for now, the look may be important too, and as you say, no stands needed (I assume you do for the smaller ones and its not just a look thing too..... )

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Cheers danb1979 your input very much appreciated....

As I dont have anyone to tell me my house cant look like an overgrown man cave for now, the look may be important too, and as you say, no stands needed (I assume you do for the smaller ones and its not just a look thing too..... )

You need stands for standmount speakers; unless you want to put them on a heavy shelf etc...

The stands act as a solid base for standmount speakers and to aid their sound

For example this is my home office set up: JBL 308P Mk II active studio monitors, on Atacama HMS2 600mm stands






They're big stands and weigh a lot; even more so I've mass loaded them with Atacama atabites (small lead pieces that you use to 'deadweight' the stands to stave off resonance. But that also allows the speakers to sound better as it aids to neutralise any resonance etc

The JBLs are big speakers too; so the stands suit them and vice versa

There are lots of stands, lots of designs to suit individual needs

[danb1979]

However; I had a pair of Fyne Audio F302s in my office a good few years back (partnered them with my NAD C320BEE integrated amp and an external DAC connected to my Mac) and they were brilliant:

https://www.whathifi.com/fyne-audio/f302/review

They have a newer version out now; very much the same principle

Look superb, sounded superb and would highly recommend them

[Pond]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Like when buying a car I need to remember what is important and not get dragged in by lots of stuff that I dont really need...

Good luck!
The home Hi-fi market is designed for men, which is why there is so much choice at vastly different prices.

One golden rule with amps, though, that should never be compromised on....












.....Make sure the volume goes up to "11".

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pond

Good luck!
The home Hi-fi market is designed for men, which is why there is so much choice at vastly different prices.

One golden rule with amps, though, that should never be compromised on....












.....Make sure the volume goes up to "11".

Well the room is 21 x14 (feet, not meters) and there is only me, no neighbours too close so loud will be the norm - especially as my hearing isnt what it was....