F30 Base Stereo Upgrade - Alpine Hi-fi retro fit?

vern321 · 04-10-2016, 05:04 PM

Newbie post so please don’t be too hard on me!

I have looked at all the post here and other forums so I think I have a pretty good picture of what I am trying to achieve.

I am looking to upgrade my base stereo (1 speaker in each door & sub under each of the front seats & no tweeters) in my 2012 F30 UK spec, I have Pro Nav, not sure if this makes a difference. I had the Logic 7 in my previous E60 which was a lot better.

Here are my thoughts but would appreciate others

The BMW Alpine Hi-fi upgrade – I have been quoted £853 for this from my local BMW dealer including the front window surrounds and Alpine badges and coding.

Advantages
1) Keeps Warranty intact (My car is approved used, so this kit would keep it intact without question)
2) This is probably the most important aspect? – provides an amp for the (replaced)front Mids & (new)Tweeters as well as the (existing)subs under the front seats. I understand the rear speakers in this set up would be driven by the original HU.
3) No loss of boot storage including the left side of the boot as the amp installs in front of the glove box. I am not sure the wires go back to the left side of the boot in the base system, for an easy PnP option with my system?
4) Provide a reasonable base system for additional upgrades i.e front under seat subs and rear door speakers.

Disadvantages
1) Cost?
2) Others?

Other Options (front speakers only)
1) Bavsound - I have looked at the Bavsound Stage 1 kit (which appears to be 4 coaxle speakers for my car) this kit looks well made and the videos are very informative, this particular kit does not seem great value (at the moment for my car) when compared to the Hifi or HK options which appear to have greater discount, plus the addition of import tax when importing to the UK.
2) Focal - Either IFBMW-C in the front doors or IFBMW-S in the front doors utilising the HK (or probably the Hi-fi) window surrounds to accommodate the tweeters.

Other specific questions
1) If I upgraded the subs with Focal IFBMW Subwoofers 1) will they fit, either width or depth, the spec sheet does not specifically mention the F30, and I have read a post that said depth could be a problem. Also the size(width), I am pretty sure they are 8” or 200mm, in the F30, but I did read they could be 6.5” – Bavsound definitely indicated they are 8” just different drive units for Base/Hifi/HK and probably “glued in” the base system. The Bavsound Goast subs are also an option, any other plug in and play options?
2) Rear door speakers – If I upgraded these should I go for a coax design (like the IFBMW-C) or stick with some form of mid range, not sure if the Alpine Hi-fi Upgrade changes the EQ to the rear speakers so their might be no point in a coax design in the rear, I assume in the base system the real speakers are the same as the front.

Any help appreciated.

andrew.webber · 04-11-2016, 07:09 AM

I went though the same process as yourself with a base audio car and as you say the sound quality was poor (very disappointing)!!

I ended up just putting Rainbow IL-C4.2 speakers in the front (they come with tweeters so you need to purchase the window surrounds). They certainly made a big difference and even I can tell that things are a lot clearer but like most people will say, you really need to get an amplifier in as well for the best upgrade.

If I could have justified the cost I would have done the audiofile-incar.co.uk stage 2 upgrade for about £1K but I only use the car at weekends!!

My car is a 2012 model and the Alpine upgrade would not fit for some reason - I did look at this route.

HTH

Andrew

GeertB · 04-11-2016, 08:11 AM

If you have ASD (active sound design) the alpine kit won't fit.
This is because the alpine amp is fitted in the front, but the ASD amplifier is in the back were the hifi and HK amp normally is. Apparentely the way the alpine amp is wired in the front, doesn't work with the ASD amp.

vern321 · 04-11-2016, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew.webber

I went though the same process as yourself with a base audio car and as you say the sound quality was poor (very disappointing)!!

I ended up just putting Rainbow IL-C4.2 speakers in the front (they come with tweeters so you need to purchase the window surrounds). They certainly made a big difference and even I can tell that things are a lot clearer but like most people will say, you really need to get an amplifier in as well for the best upgrade.

If I could have justified the cost I would have done the audiofile-incar.co.uk stage 2 upgrade for about £1K but I only use the car at weekends!!

My car is a 2012 model and the Alpine upgrade would not fit for some reason - I did look at this route.

HTH

Andrew

Thanks, I'll check out both the options you mention above, I was aware of the Rainbow option but not specifically for the base system, did you use sound deadening or have any issues with the back of the speakers hitting the window? I read some folks have had trouble. I'll check out your other option.

vern321 · 04-11-2016, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeertB

If you have ASD (active sound design) the alpine kit won't fit.
This is because the alpine amp is fitted in the front, but the ASD amplifier is in the back were the hifi and HK amp normally is. Apparentely the way the alpine amp is wired in the front, doesn't work with the ASD amp.

That's interesting, I am pretty sure I don't have ASD, is there a way to know for sure? I guess it's a setting (which sound to use) in the I-drive? Also I gave the dealer my reg and they checked so assume they would know, I will certainly check though. Thanks.

andrew.webber · 04-12-2016, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vern321

Thanks, I'll check out both the options you mention above, I was aware of the Rainbow option but not specifically for the base system, did you use sound deadening or have any issues with the back of the speakers hitting the window? I read some folks have had trouble. I'll check out your other option.

Yes I also applied some dynamat extreme in the door panel - no problem with the speakers catching on the window as they are custom made for the F30 and so very easy to fit!
They come with 2 crossovers which need to be affixed to the door panel at a suitable position - this was the hardest part really and not that bad to be honest.

HTH
Andrew

beanbaguk · 04-12-2016, 10:26 AM

Hey, I had the same issue as you and I've gone down the Bavsound Stage 1 route.

I've not yet added an amp but I've been in touch with Fischer Audiotec and they've been very helpful and I plan to install one when funds permit.

The beauty of this set-up means I don't have to splice or cut any wires as the MATCH PP 62 or 82DSP is plug and play. Fischer Audiotec provide all the necessary cabling and adapters too so it can be removed without any problems (or so I'm told).

The Bavsound speakers are also incredibly easy to install and Bavsound provides everything you need to install them including tools and trim.

With regards to quality, I think the Bavsound (BSW), speakers are far superior to the Alpine ones. They are a lot more natural sounding and the tweeters are beautifully detailed. The Alpine ones sound harsh and sometimes too metallic for my liking.

While you won't get much volume without an amp, they sound a hundred times better than your base stereo and when you compare the speakers side by side, you realise why. The BMW speakers are genuinely complete trash and it's an embarrassment they even allow them to be installed in base model cars.

Other options include Focal and MB Quart. Both have very good reviews but I can't comment on them personally. All I will say is the BSW S1 is excellent and others in the forum gush about them once they are amplified with a good amp / DSP.

Hope this helps!

vern321 · 04-12-2016, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew.webber

Yes I also applied some dynamat extreme in the door panel - no problem with the speakers catching on the window as they are custom made for the F30 and so very easy to fit!
They come with 2 crossovers which need to be affixed to the door panel at a suitable position - this was the hardest part really and not that bad to be honest.

HTH
Andrew

Thanks, it's good to know the Rainbow option is a good one and properly PNP.

vern321 · 04-12-2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

Hey, I had the same issue as you and I've gone down the Bavsound Stage 1 route.

I've not yet added an amp but I've been in touch with Fischer Audiotec and they've been very helpful and I plan to install one when funds permit.

The beauty of this set-up means I don't have to splice or cut any wires as the MATCH PP 62 or 82DSP is plug and play. Fischer Audiotec provide all the necessary cabling and adapters too so it can be removed without any problems (or so I'm told).

The Bavsound speakers are also incredibly easy to install and Bavsound provides everything you need to install them including tools and trim.

With regards to quality, I think the Bavsound (BSW), speakers are far superior to the Alpine ones. They are a lot more natural sounding and the tweeters are beautifully detailed. The Alpine ones sound harsh and sometimes too metallic for my liking.

While you won't get much volume without an amp, they sound a hundred times better than your base stereo and when you compare the speakers side by side, you realise why. The BMW speakers are genuinely complete trash and it's an embarrassment they even allow them to be installed in base model cars.

Other options include Focal and MB Quart. Both have very good reviews but I can't comment on them personally. All I will say is the BSW S1 is excellent and others in the forum gush about them once they are amplified with a good amp / DSP.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, the amp route sounds interesting, like a 2nd stage after the speaker upgrade. Can you confirm which BSW stage 1 kit you went for? The coax set or the separate mid and tweeters mounted in the front door window frames, if you went this route did you purchase the Hi-fi ones (no badge) or the HK ones (badged HK).

GeertB · 04-13-2016, 02:45 AM

If your dealer checked it should be fine. I see in your sign that you drive a 320d. I don't think that one has ASD.

vern321 · 04-13-2016, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeertB

If your dealer checked it should be fine. I see in your sign that you drive a 320d. I don't think that one has ASD.

Thanks for the confirmation.

beanbaguk · 04-14-2016, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vern321

Thanks, the amp route sounds interesting, like a 2nd stage after the speaker upgrade. Can you confirm which BSW stage 1 kit you went for? The coax set or the separate mid and tweeters mounted in the front door window frames, if you went this route did you purchase the Hi-fi ones (no badge) or the HK ones (badged HK).

If you visit the Bavsound website, you can enter your car details and it'll give you the correct stage 1 kit.

For me, this included:

Door sills for tweeters
Tweeters with filters
Front mid-range speakers with filters
Rear mid-range without filters
Tool kit (included as an offer and worth it)

I also bought some dynamat acoustic mats which I installed on the door panels.

Installation took 3 hours, carefully prying the door panels off, removing the old speakers and installing the new ones.

It was very easy to do (if a little painful on the finger-tips), and the results were excellent.

I highly recommend it.

Regarding the Alpine kit, I had this on my E87. It's good but only replaces the front speakers and ignores the rears. (It won't drive these either).

I think it's very expensive for what it is and you're far better off going down the Bavsound S1 and Bimmertech amp route. It is more expensive but not a huge amount more and it'll give you far better quality and enjoyment than the alpine route.

vern321 · 04-14-2016, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

If you visit the Bavsound website, you can enter your car details and it'll give you the correct stage 1 kit.

For me, this included:

Door sills for tweeters
Tweeters with filters
Front mid-range speakers with filters
Rear mid-range without filters
Tool kit (included as an offer and worth it)

I also bought some dynamat acoustic mats which I installed on the door panels.

Installation took 3 hours, carefully prying the door panels off, removing the old speakers and installing the new ones.

It was very easy to do (if a little painful on the finger-tips), and the results were excellent.

I highly recommend it.

Regarding the Alpine kit, I had this on my E87. It's good but only replaces the front speakers and ignores the rears. (It won't drive these either).

I think it's very expensive for what it is and you're far better off going down the Bavsound S1 and Bimmertech amp route. It is more expensive but not a huge amount more and it'll give you far better quality and enjoyment than the alpine route.

Thanks for the details, I am leaning towards the Bimmertech amp route now as well, as it will drive all 5 channels (front left & Right, rear left and right, plus front underseat subs) all with separate EQ... Lovely... the Alpine won't drive the rears or provide EQ. Your other post on the amp specific stuff really helped.

As for speakers, I am still undecided, BSW stage 1, Focal, Rainbow, Glayden, Rockford Fosgate are all options, but will probably do all from the same manufacturer. Will also do the speakers first. With the EQ setting of the Bimmertech it can all be tuned perfectly.

TePee · 04-15-2016, 02:15 AM

The Alpine kit for F30 is different than the one for E90. The new version for F30 is a 6-channel amp driving front mids/tweeters + underseat subs + rear speakers.

Nethertheless I'd prefer another system, but just for your info.

vern321 · 04-15-2016, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TePee

The Alpine kit for F30 is different than the one for E90. The new version for F30 is a 6-channel amp driving front mids/tweeters + underseat subs + rear speakers.

Nethertheless I'd prefer another system, but just for your info.

Thanks it would make sense that the F30 Alpine Hifi upgrade would different as the base cost (£603.03) is different to the E90 version (£406.80) - (BMW UK website)

but the bmw website for the F30 makes the following statement about the Alpine Hi-fi upgrade.

"The ALPINE HiFi system significantly improves audio performance with its natural sound quality. All components of the 420 W three-way loudspeaker system were developed exclusively for BMW and are specially adapted for the acoustics of the vehicle"

I guess this could mean Left, Right & Subs each with 2 channels

Also if there is significant more power to the rear speakers (which are unchanged as part of the upgrade as I understand it) wouldn't there be a danger they could blow if powered by the Alpine AMP?

Also the BMW website makes a similar "three-way" statement for the E90.

TePee · 04-15-2016, 02:46 PM

At least in Europe the F30 Alpine system contains a 6-channel amp and new mids&tweeters for the front. That's all.

Underseat subs and rear speakers remain stock.

The amp drives them as written in my last post.

vern321 · 04-15-2016, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TePee

At least in Europe the F30 Alpine system contains a 6-channel amp and new mids&tweeters for the front. That's all.

Underseat subs and rear speakers remain stock.

The amp drives them as written in my last post.

ok thanks, I'll dig deeper to see if the UK set-up is different.

Dyl · 04-18-2016, 08:32 AM

Looks like you want to go quite a bit further than I wanted to when upgrading, but just adding HK tweeters and replacing the mids in my doors (F36) made a huge difference in my car...

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...5#post19269535

vern321 · 04-18-2016, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyl

Looks like you want to go quite a bit further than I wanted to when upgrading, but just adding HK tweeters and replacing the mids in my doors (F36) made a huge difference in my car...

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...5#post19269535

I thought of doing this first also (as its much cheaper

) probably using Focal or Rainbow components. Can I ask did you need to turn down the "treble" as I understand the EQ on the base system is increased at the high end to compensate for the lack of tweeters in the original base system?

Dyl · 04-18-2016, 10:18 AM

Well, I'd had the treble cranked up anyway a bit to try and get more high end out of it. So yeah, I turned it back down once I did the install. I'll update if i'm wrong but I think I have it just sat in the middle now.

I've come from a Golf GTI with a factory upgrade on the audio. I was really disappointed with the quality of sound my new 4series compared to that. I had to do something, and thought adding tweeters would make a big difference. I was right, It's much much better now without spending too much money.

I'd looked at most of the options you have before I decided that was what I was going to do. Just thought I take a punt on trying that first.

vern321 · 04-19-2016, 04:36 PM

OK so I have decided to go for the Alpine Hi-fi upgrade and it is being done next Monday all being well at my local BMW dealer.

Clearly there are "better" options with more power and DSP, the Bimmertech route would have been a no brainier if I had hi-fi, but the thought of running the cable from the boot to the back of the HU did not work for me. Perhaps I will regret it.

Although the Alpine upgrade has its limitations (power and user defined DSP) it is better than base and if I don't like the sound of the speakers Bavsound, Focal or Rainbow replacements are all possible. The amp is a proper 6 channel driving the front rear and subs so I would expect an improvement

Also the coding needed to Flatern the output of the HU. again this is covered by the Alpine upgrade (although Bimmertech have this covered to ad I understand it.

Anyway I ran some sound tests using pink noise a crude sound meter on my phone at the weekend it will be good to compare post the upgrade.

I am also thinking of replacing the rear speakers and the subs, Bavsound are the obvious choice but there are others like Focal & Rainbow.

Thanks everyone with the help and advice so far.

Dyl · 04-19-2016, 04:47 PM

Curious to see how this works out. Let us know how it goes!

04-10-2016, 05:04 PM	#1
vern321 Enlisted Member 12 Rep 48 Posts Drives: 2014 530 D M-Sport Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: East Dorset iTrader: (0)	F30 Base Stereo Upgrade - Alpine Hi-fi retro fit? Newbie post so please don’t be too hard on me! I have looked at all the post here and other forums so I think I have a pretty good picture of what I am trying to achieve. I am looking to upgrade my base stereo (1 speaker in each door & sub under each of the front seats & no tweeters) in my 2012 F30 UK spec, I have Pro Nav, not sure if this makes a difference. I had the Logic 7 in my previous E60 which was a lot better. Here are my thoughts but would appreciate others The BMW Alpine Hi-fi upgrade – I have been quoted £853 for this from my local BMW dealer including the front window surrounds and Alpine badges and coding. Advantages 1) Keeps Warranty intact (My car is approved used, so this kit would keep it intact without question) 2) This is probably the most important aspect? – provides an amp for the (replaced)front Mids & (new)Tweeters as well as the (existing)subs under the front seats. I understand the rear speakers in this set up would be driven by the original HU. 3) No loss of boot storage including the left side of the boot as the amp installs in front of the glove box. I am not sure the wires go back to the left side of the boot in the base system, for an easy PnP option with my system? 4) Provide a reasonable base system for additional upgrades i.e front under seat subs and rear door speakers. Disadvantages 1) Cost? 2) Others? Other Options (front speakers only) 1) Bavsound - I have looked at the Bavsound Stage 1 kit (which appears to be 4 coaxle speakers for my car) this kit looks well made and the videos are very informative, this particular kit does not seem great value (at the moment for my car) when compared to the Hifi or HK options which appear to have greater discount, plus the addition of import tax when importing to the UK. 2) Focal - Either IFBMW-C in the front doors or IFBMW-S in the front doors utilising the HK (or probably the Hi-fi) window surrounds to accommodate the tweeters. Other specific questions 1) If I upgraded the subs with Focal IFBMW Subwoofers 1) will they fit, either width or depth, the spec sheet does not specifically mention the F30, and I have read a post that said depth could be a problem. Also the size(width), I am pretty sure they are 8” or 200mm, in the F30, but I did read they could be 6.5” – Bavsound definitely indicated they are 8” just different drive units for Base/Hifi/HK and probably “glued in” the base system. The Bavsound Goast subs are also an option, any other plug in and play options? 2) Rear door speakers – If I upgraded these should I go for a coax design (like the IFBMW-C) or stick with some form of mid range, not sure if the Alpine Hi-fi Upgrade changes the EQ to the rear speakers so their might be no point in a coax design in the rear, I assume in the base system the real speakers are the same as the front. Any help appreciated. Last edited by vern321; 04-10-2016 at 05:19 PM.. Reason: Adding in Model number
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

04-11-2016, 07:09 AM	#2
andrew.webber Second Lieutenant 67 Rep 240 Posts Drives: F30 328ise Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: East Midlands iTrader: (0)	I went though the same process as yourself with a base audio car and as you say the sound quality was poor (very disappointing)!! I ended up just putting Rainbow IL-C4.2 speakers in the front (they come with tweeters so you need to purchase the window surrounds). They certainly made a big difference and even I can tell that things are a lot clearer but like most people will say, you really need to get an amplifier in as well for the best upgrade. If I could have justified the cost I would have done the audiofile-incar.co.uk stage 2 upgrade for about £1K but I only use the car at weekends!! My car is a 2012 model and the Alpine upgrade would not fit for some reason - I did look at this route. HTH Andrew
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-11-2016, 08:11 AM	#3
GeertB Private First Class 12 Rep 100 Posts Drives: 428i Gran coupé Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Belgium iTrader: (0)	If you have ASD (active sound design) the alpine kit won't fit. This is because the alpine amp is fitted in the front, but the ASD amplifier is in the back were the hifi and HK amp normally is. Apparentely the way the alpine amp is wired in the front, doesn't work with the ASD amp.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-12-2016, 10:26 AM	#7
beanbaguk Captain 456 Rep 938 Posts Drives: BMW G30 520d M-Sport Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Costa del Sol iTrader: (0)	Hey, I had the same issue as you and I've gone down the Bavsound Stage 1 route. I've not yet added an amp but I've been in touch with Fischer Audiotec and they've been very helpful and I plan to install one when funds permit. The beauty of this set-up means I don't have to splice or cut any wires as the MATCH PP 62 or 82DSP is plug and play. Fischer Audiotec provide all the necessary cabling and adapters too so it can be removed without any problems (or so I'm told). The Bavsound speakers are also incredibly easy to install and Bavsound provides everything you need to install them including tools and trim. With regards to quality, I think the Bavsound (BSW), speakers are far superior to the Alpine ones. They are a lot more natural sounding and the tweeters are beautifully detailed. The Alpine ones sound harsh and sometimes too metallic for my liking. While you won't get much volume without an amp, they sound a hundred times better than your base stereo and when you compare the speakers side by side, you realise why. The BMW speakers are genuinely complete trash and it's an embarrassment they even allow them to be installed in base model cars. Other options include Focal and MB Quart. Both have very good reviews but I can't comment on them personally. All I will say is the BSW S1 is excellent and others in the forum gush about them once they are amplified with a good amp / DSP. Hope this helps!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-13-2016, 02:45 AM	#10
GeertB Private First Class 12 Rep 100 Posts Drives: 428i Gran coupé Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Belgium iTrader: (0)	If your dealer checked it should be fine. I see in your sign that you drive a 320d. I don't think that one has ASD.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2016, 02:15 AM	#14
TePee Second Lieutenant 67 Rep 263 Posts Drives: F34 LCI MY2019 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Home of BMW iTrader: (0)	The Alpine kit for F30 is different than the one for E90. The new version for F30 is a 6-channel amp driving front mids/tweeters + underseat subs + rear speakers. Nethertheless I'd prefer another system, but just for your info.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2016, 02:46 PM	#16
TePee Second Lieutenant 67 Rep 263 Posts Drives: F34 LCI MY2019 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Home of BMW iTrader: (0)	At least in Europe the F30 Alpine system contains a 6-channel amp and new mids&tweeters for the front. That's all. Underseat subs and rear speakers remain stock. The amp drives them as written in my last post.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-18-2016, 08:32 AM	#18
Dyl Captain 433 Rep 778 Posts Drives: 4GC Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Greater Manchester/Edinburgh iTrader: (0)	Looks like you want to go quite a bit further than I wanted to when upgrading, but just adding HK tweeters and replacing the mids in my doors (F36) made a huge difference in my car... http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...5#post19269535
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-18-2016, 10:18 AM	#20
Dyl Captain 433 Rep 778 Posts Drives: 4GC Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Greater Manchester/Edinburgh iTrader: (0)	Well, I'd had the treble cranked up anyway a bit to try and get more high end out of it. So yeah, I turned it back down once I did the install. I'll update if i'm wrong but I think I have it just sat in the middle now. I've come from a Golf GTI with a factory upgrade on the audio. I was really disappointed with the quality of sound my new 4series compared to that. I had to do something, and thought adding tweeters would make a big difference. I was right, It's much much better now without spending too much money. I'd looked at most of the options you have before I decided that was what I was going to do. Just thought I take a punt on trying that first.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-19-2016, 04:36 PM	#21
vern321 Enlisted Member 12 Rep 48 Posts Drives: 2014 530 D M-Sport Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: East Dorset iTrader: (0)	OK so I have decided to go for the Alpine Hi-fi upgrade and it is being done next Monday all being well at my local BMW dealer. Clearly there are "better" options with more power and DSP, the Bimmertech route would have been a no brainier if I had hi-fi, but the thought of running the cable from the boot to the back of the HU did not work for me. Perhaps I will regret it. Although the Alpine upgrade has its limitations (power and user defined DSP) it is better than base and if I don't like the sound of the speakers Bavsound, Focal or Rainbow replacements are all possible. The amp is a proper 6 channel driving the front rear and subs so I would expect an improvement Also the coding needed to Flatern the output of the HU. again this is covered by the Alpine upgrade (although Bimmertech have this covered to ad I understand it. Anyway I ran some sound tests using pink noise a crude sound meter on my phone at the weekend it will be good to compare post the upgrade. I am also thinking of replacing the rear speakers and the subs, Bavsound are the obvious choice but there are others like Focal & Rainbow. Thanks everyone with the help and advice so far.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-19-2016, 04:47 PM	#22
Dyl Captain 433 Rep 778 Posts Drives: 4GC Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Greater Manchester/Edinburgh iTrader: (0)	Curious to see how this works out. Let us know how it goes!
	Appreciate 0 Quote