[MaestroAl]

You missed out the 4 series

[///MPower]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

Oh OK. So how is the 4GC different from the 3GT then? The mind boggles. Oooohh, does the 4GC just look like a hatch but actually have a saloon boot? That might explain it

Same difference as the 6 series gran coupe to the 5 series GT. The GC is sleeker and has a coupe like roofline with a regular trunk.

Basically think of it like this:
F30 3 series sedan = 5 series sedan
F32 4 series coupe = 6 series coupe
F33 4 series cabrio = 6 series cabrio
F34 3 series GT = 5 series GT
F36 4 series gran coupe = 6 series gran coupe.

See easy

[///M1]

Looks like the love child after an Orca whale copulated with a barb wire

[Alpine F31]

Yuck

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by f30_Vincent

Don't like that at all. I'll stay with my good ol' fashoined 4-door sedan.

What he said!

[m balla]

I'm waiting for the F84 it will be so epic

The M3GT will tear up the track

[ATSR]

Originally Posted by Matski

It really is quite simple, if you want a 3 series, you buy the saloon... if you want a 3 series, and want to spend longer getting people in and out of the back seats, you buy the coupe. If you want to spend longer getting people in and out of the back seats and you want messy hair, you get the convertible. If you want a 3 series, but with less headroom you get the Gran Coupe, if you want a 3 series with more headroom and legroom, you buy the 3GT, if you want the legroom, but don't need the head room, you move to China, get a job with the government and buy a 3Li. If you have a large dog... you buy the Tourer.

What could be clearer!

+1

[ATSR]

Originally Posted by rconti

As a stupid American who clearly knows nothing about cars, you've *still* failed to present a single reason why this abomination is better than the Touring.

I don't care about "brand dilution" or "this car doesn't deserve to be a BMW". People can buy whatever ugly cars they want. It doesn't lessen my enjoyment of *my* hatchback BMW when someone buys a beige X5 with a beige interior to drive their kids to preschool.

What I care about is the incessant whining that it's so *expensive* to certify a car for the US market, and there has to be a *proven demand* for a car in order for them to go to the massive expense of certifying it here. So we end up with a completely neutered model lineup, few diesels, no diesels with a stick, now no Touring with a stick, no big engines in the tourings, etc etc etc. And when this neutered product lineup doesn't sell, they "prove" to themselves that there's no market for them in the US.

And yet BMW magically "finds" the market for cars that have next-to-zero demand. They killed off the 5er Touring in the US in favor of the GT, which promptly dropped to sub-Touring sales after the first year or so, and it looks like they may well bring this 3GT to the US rather than offering a 335 touring or a 6spd 328 touring. And ultimately, neutering individual model lines ends up being a neutering of the brand. If they prioritize slightly-different-looking boringmobiles over enthusiast options, the market will follow, and pretty soon BMW won't sell anything interesting at all. Now, that's fine with me, because I am not a member of the Quandt family, but I sure as hell hope some other automaker steps in to fill the gap.

PS: More than half the cars I've owned have been hatchbacks.. hell, 2 have even been liftbacks.

PPS: I've actually *driven* a slushbox 328 with ASS, and it sucks. I fully agree that auto start stop systems are the future, and it probably wouldn't be bad in a stick, but in the slushbox I drove, the car shook quite roughly every time the engine fired up while I was still sitting at a red light with my foot on the brake.. which was about 90% of the red lights I came to. They're going to have to find a way to make the battery actually last a full red light cycle, or at least smooth out the restart process. Major kudos to BMW for offering the solution to code the car to remember the last ASS setting. That's the right fix, there -- let the customer choose.

+1000000000000

[Terpinator]

I've been comparing the photos of the GT and the Sedan, in an effort to determin if the roofline of the GT will be the same as the Sedan. By comparing te following two, it looks like the roofline's will be very, very similar if not the same:







Also, the ride height seems almost, if not, the same as the sedan. If so, it will be much sportier than the 5GT. It appears I'm definitely in the minority, but am very much looking forward to the full reveal.

[Terpinator]

And to clarify, I mean the roofline up to the B-pillar.

[jwickers]

Yes it looks very similar until you get to the camo part on the rear end. So wait and see

[EnI]

Perhaps the head room is the same as in 3er Sedan but the sitting position is a bit higher in the GT (although still lower than in 5er GT!). The whole 3er GT is higher than sedan.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Sol01

yes BMW became number one because Mercedes messed up trying to appeal to every man and his dog by trying to fill every possible niche and as the result their main products suffered, which is exactly the same strategy that BMW following right now. secondly with reference to E87, F20 sold more in the same time span mainly thanks to China and other asian markets not just because F20 is better than other cars around. thirdly it is only a matter of time before Audi wallop your boys and become number 1 premium manufacturer, as the matter of fact this year they have already outsold you on couple of occassions then I would like to see how you are going to defend bangle and his designs

I don't disagree with some of what you said, but touting Audi as the successor seems a little circular, as they have even more models, fewer engines and even duller styling, effectively using your earlier argument about BMW against Audi too.

Bash Bangle all you want, but what he and van Hooydonk have designed over the last fifteen years have led the design world and nearly every car on the road today owes something to their designs. Sure, some of their designs like the E65 and the E60 were a little ham fisted in total, but design elements on each have endured and inspired other designs.

[jwickers]

Originally Posted by EnI

Perhaps the head room is the same as in 3er Sedan but the sitting position is a bit higher in the GT (although still lower than in 5er GT!). The whole 3er GT is higher than sedan.

Head room would be better in the rear, also if it is slightly higher it may be more accommodating for the third rear passenger.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by bosz

The Hunchback of Notre Dame

HA HA HA!!!

[Frosty]

I just fear the " German Toyoda " philosophy may spread this company too thin...

...we shall see ~Frost

[SCOTT26]

thirdly it is only a matter of time before Audi wallop your boys and become number 1 premium manufacturer, as the matter of fact this year they have already outsold you on couple of occassions then I would like to see how you are going to defend bangle and his designs

BMW has a slight advantage here. Loyal BMW customers know the true story behind Audi and the fact that Audi are not in the business of creating cars which benefit the driver, no matter what Car and who? say.
BMW customers do not want a VW despite the exceptionally tailored designer suit. You would be surprised how many BMW and even Mercedes-Benz customers see through the visage.
BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer has even announced that Audi is a volume brand masquerading as a premium one.

But speaking of VW did you know that demand in Europe has spurned them on to develop a hatch of the next euro Passat model. considering the Passat was orignally a hatch until 1988. This is why the 3er GT is essential for europe where customers need extra flexibility than a regular sedan.
hatches in this segment are very popular in many european countries for this very reason.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Wow! so many comments that fail to understand the purpose of the 3er GT. If I had to single one out for the Kanye West "clown" of the year award it would be this one.



The 1er is only in its second generation and is outselling the E87 in the same timeframe.

Hi Scott, you also qualify for a clown award to my opinion.

The F20 was launched at the end of the life cycle of all its direct competitors. When it would not sell, inspite of the controversial looks, the disaster would have been epic. Thank God, this isn't the case, but the renewed competition is ready now. So let's hope for the best.

In your argumentation you make believe that BMW sells thanks to its controversial design, I just say it would have been even better without it. I don't believe you need negativism to optimize EBITDA.

Concerning looks, of course it's a matter of taste, I just observe that almost everybody lauded the E12 -> 39 and E23 -> E38 and polarisation was extreme with E60 and E65. I thought it was the hand of Bangle that designed or at least approved them. That Merc didn't do a better job, doesn't make the design any better. Merc had to struggle with other problems then like you know probably better than me.

You argument that the 5GT is a good car, I can't disagree, I don't know. A Humvee is probably also a good car, but I hope BMW is not going that direction. Everybody can observe the dilution from a specialised quality manufacturer of driver focussed (and beautiful) cars towards a "Jack of all trades, master of none". And yes, sales will probably go up, look how big Toyota and VW have become with this strategy.

I see me stepping out of the BMW and my 2 neighbours, who don' t give a dam for cars, stepping into one. I guess, I'll have to accept this but for now, I still feel bad about it.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by KoenG

I see me stepping out of the BMW and my 2 neighbours, who don' t give a dam for cars, stepping into one. I guess, I'll have to accept this but for now, I still feel bad about it.

What are you going to buy that will be any different? Audi, Mercedes? To buy in to those brands will have you moving much further away from what BMW is/was, and they are both doing exactley what BMW is anyway - filling niches to capture further demographics. And for what reason, to get a sportier drive?... generally speaking, in any category they offer a model for the BMW is the benchmark for the driving experience - maybe the gap is closer now than it was... but hey, this is the 6th generation of BMW 3 series we're talking about here - it's about time the competition caught up a bit!

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by KoenG

I see me stepping out of the BMW and my 2 neighbours, who don' t give a dam for cars, stepping into one. I guess, I'll have to accept this but for now, I still feel bad about it.

My question is, why does the 3GT even matter to you if you are not in the market for it and what brand do you now see as a better fit?

I am asking because the dilution rationale to me with BMW doesn't fit because they are not making cars that compete against each other like GM. The material and build quality is improving and if BMW didn't take this route they would have been bought out by another company by now and the product would be no where near as good as it is today. BMW has never taken a step back with a product end is the benchmark in nearly every segment.

There are different levels within the BMW line for basically every consumer and truth be told, the M135i is better than any sports package or M sport car BMW has ever built and it doesn't carry the premium price of a 1M for example.

Looks are subjective and the more I see the new 1, it grows on me and surely someone will copy it and it will be even more mainstream.

I just don't see the logic in people complaining about a single product and how it will prevent them from buying something in the brand. That's like saying you dislike Cadbury milk chocolate bars with nuts in them so you won't buy anything Cadbury because of that even though they offer bars without nuts...

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

I just don't see the logic in people complaining about a single product and how it will prevent them from buying something in the brand. That's like saying you dislike Cadbury milk chocolate bars with nuts in them so you won't buy anything Cadbury because of that even though they offer bars without nuts...

Cadbury makes chocolate bars. Then they decide to put stuff in those bars to make a variety. First nuts, then fruit bits, then caramel, then salt, then spicy peppers, it keeps going. The whole time, they slowly lower the quality of cocoa because their costs have gone up on secondary products.

Is it any different than spending R&D on seven dash boards, seats designs, arm rests, etc, where you used to have two?

[rconti]

Originally Posted by Matski

It really is quite simple, if you want a 3 series, you buy the saloon...

Close, but not quite. If you want a 3-series, you buy the Touring.
If you want the same size car, but inexplicably demand a smaller cargo capacity, you buy the sedan.