[Mani59]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...ort-comparison

They prefer the XE! Bit of an unfair test in my opinion.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Just read that, how was it an unfair test?

What it does seem to say, is if that same test was carried out on Scottish or Welsh roads, the BMW would fail even more.

[300hp]

I be like

[300hp]

I don't think I have seen anyone articulate their reasons for picking a winner so well. It's tough to argue with this:

"From the outset, it?s not immediately obvious which is the car?s biggest dynamic achievement. ?It could be its dexterous, silken-?edged ride on 20in rims, which is brilliant. Equally, it could be the perfect marriage of rate of roll, as defined by the springing, to rate of yaw ascribed by its meaty, consistent steering, which is even better.

Or maybe it?s the uncommon purity of balance you get from those expertly judged grip levels, and the totally immersive adjustability of cornering line that results when you begin switching out the stability control in stages. Even now, I can?t decide. All have been engineered in at apparent painstaking effort, rather than commanded by customer feedback or marketing edict. All are the motive hallmarks of something truly outstanding."

As a current F30 335i owner I decided to sit this one out and just wait for the G series. I don't doubt in any way that I would prefer the 340i to the Jag or my 335i, I just want to be that guy with the well kept pre lci model

Edit:
As I re-read my post I wish to also sincerely apologize to the writers at Autocar for putting my writing next to theirs. What I have in quotes above deserves to be put on a biblical tablet for inclusion in every museum in the world as an example of the best automotive literature ever presented by mankind

[xG35c]

I have to wonder how much of the Jag's preferred ride quality comes from NOT having runflats...

[bri1042]

The 5000 pound difference is price between the two is going to be a big factor for a lot of folk. You can spec the 340i with a whole different set of toys for $7800...

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by bri1042

The 5000 pound difference is price between the two is going to be a big factor for a lot of folk. You can spec the 340i with a whole different set of toys for $7800...

I would say it's not a case of you CAN spec a lot of toys for the 340i, rather that you MUST, as let's face it your stock BMW does not come with a great deal.

Even folding mirrors ain't standard lol.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Just read that, how was it an unfair test?

What it does seem to say, is if that same test was carried out on Scottish or Welsh roads, the BMW would fail even more.

It was unfair because the BMW lost.

The Jaguar XE has been very well received by the automotive press and is surely going to be a force to bb reckoned with in the segment.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Raj59

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...ort-comparison

They prefer the XE! Bit of an unfair test in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Brigand

Just read that, how was it an unfair test?

What it does seem to say, is if that same test was carried out on Scottish or Welsh roads, the BMW would fail even more.

Edited....It appears the 340i is, in fact, equipped with the Track Handling Package.

Just two quick notes - as noted in the article, it was a standard sport 340i, which lacks the 704 M Sport suspension.....

To some certain extent BMW is a victim of their own success. They take this "Efficient Dynamics" stuff pretty seriously, so fuel mileage and CO2 emissions are very high on their priority list. And they have to be because they produce so many cars. The efficiency of their everyday cars help them offset the sins of their ///M cars.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Just two quick notes - as noted in the article, it was a standard sport 340i, which lacks the 704 M Sport suspension and it had the static suspension, not the adaptive suspension. The standard sport 340i also comes standard with a square tire setup and the horrid low rolling resistance RFTs. If not an unfair test certainly an unevenly matched one. Regardless, BMW gets the blame, because they're the ones choosing the car they supply to journalists to test.

To some certain extent BMW is a victim of their own success. They take this "Efficient Dynamics" stuff pretty seriously, so fuel mileage and CO2 emissions are very high on their priority list. And they have to be because they produce so many cars. The efficiency of their everyday cars help them offset the sins of their ///M cars.

Very well said!

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Just two quick notes - as noted in the article, it was a standard sport 340i, which lacks the 704 M Sport suspension and it had the static suspension, not the adaptive suspension. The standard sport 340i also comes standard with a square tire setup and the horrid low rolling resistance RFTs. If not an unfair test certainly an unevenly matched one. Regardless, BMW gets the blame, because they're the ones choosing the car they supply to journalists to test.

To some certain extent BMW is a victim of their own success. They take this "Efficient Dynamics" stuff pretty seriously, so fuel mileage and CO2 emissions are very high on their priority list. And they have to be because they produce so many cars. The efficiency of their everyday cars help them offset the sins of their ///M cars.

I have a feeling even with adaptive suspension and using a 340i Msport, the BMW will get spanked.

While not Msport Suspension, it did have the Adaptive Damper Setup.

Admittedly on that Austrian road it will be close, however shove them both on your average Welsh or Scottish road, the BMW will again end up with egg on its face.

Hopefully this will make BMW think more with the G series.


As for emissions etc, the 340i Msport is the pinnacle of its non M car development.
It has extra power over the 335i (that also did not too good with the XE).

It's the Mini, 316, 318, 320's that support the range not the 3.0 engine cars.

So the 340i can't get off by waving the 'green flag'

It would be nice see the 340i reviewed against the 335i..

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Brigand

It would be nice see the 340i reviewed against the 335i..

340>335i

Nuff said

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Brigand

As for emissions etc, the 340i Msport is the pinnacle of its non M car development.
It has extra power over the 335i (that also did not too good with the XE).

It's the Mini, 316, 318, 320's that support the range not the 3.0 engine cars.

So the 340i can't get off by waving the 'green flag'.

The -16, -18, and -20 variants don't make it to the U.S. market (excepting the recent introduction of the 320i). That B58 motor will be in loads of 5ers, 6ers, 7ers, X5s, and X6s over here.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by bri1042

The 5000 pound difference is price between the two is going to be a big factor for a lot of folk. You can spec the 340i with a whole different set of toys for $7800...

Originally Posted by Brigand

I would say it's not a case of you CAN spec a lot of toys for the 340i, rather that you MUST, as let's face it your stock BMW does not come with a great deal.

Even folding mirrors ain't standard lol.

It does in the U.S., including power folding mirrors. For a $7,800 difference in price at the 340i level, a lot of U.S. buyers would start considering an ///M3.

Admittedly, price comparisons between there and here don't mean much. £39,500 = $61,700 USD and that would get you a loaded to the hilt 340i M Sport over here. £44,865 = $70,100 and that puts you into ///M3 territory.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Brigand

I have a feeling even with adaptive suspension and using a 340i Msport, the BMW will get spanked.

While not Msport Suspension, it did have the Adaptive Damper Setup.

Admittedly on that Austrian road it will be close, however shove them both on your average Welsh or Scottish road, the BMW will again end up with egg on its face.

Hopefully this will make BMW think more with the G series.

Many a comparison road test is not on a level playing field. It's a niggle of mine that Motor mag's don't line up "like for like" cars, when they do this sort of test.

I do feel the article is getting to the heart of the issue when they talk about German vs. UK (home) developed chassis. This has been the case for many years and BMW has often been criticised for spring rates and damping not perfectly suited to the sort of roads we have in the UK.

After sampling other UK developed suspensions over the years, I'd love to see a BMW "UK developed suspension option" for the UK user. Guys like Kevin Bird have shown what can be done with BMW chassis to make them more 'fluid' on UK roads.

If the guys at Jaguar can't get it right, then there is little hope that BMW will ever get it right. I'd also like to see the cars tested on Welsh/Scottish roads. My local roads would put either to the test, must get a drive in an XE to see how it copes up here.

I know we bashed Rover engineers in the past, (for many valid reasons) but they did have some pretty good suspension engineers who knew how to tune a suspension for UK roads. They could sort both primary and secondary ride issues for the UK.

HighlandPete

[Daftasabrush]

For all those who think it was an unfair test, the 340 had MPSS, not RFTs, and it had M Adaptive Suspension. Sounds like a pretty fair test to me.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

For all those who think it was an unfair test, the 340 had MPSS, not RFTs, and it had M Adaptive Suspension. Sounds like a pretty fair test to me.

You are correct. In fact, it appears it has the Track Handling Package. I made a quick judgment based on the wheels. Looking at the specific 340i review it appears the car has the ZTR. I edited my original post.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Many a comparison road test is not on a level playing field. It's a niggle of mine that Motor mag's don't line up "like for like" cars, when they do this sort of test.

I do feel the article is getting to the heart of the issue when they talk about German vs. UK (home) developed chassis. This has been the case for many years and BMW has often been criticised for spring rates and damping not perfectly suited to the sort of roads we have in the UK.

After sampling other UK developed suspensions over the years, I'd love to see a BMW "UK developed suspension option" for the UK user. Guys like Kevin Bird have shown what can be done with BMW chassis to make them more 'fluid' on UK roads.

If the guys at Jaguar can't get it right, then there is little hope that BMW will ever get it right. I'd also like to see the cars tested on Welsh/Scottish roads. My local roads would put either to the test, must get a drive in an XE to see how it copes up here.

I know we bashed Rover engineers in the past, (for many valid reasons) but they did have some pretty good suspension engineers who knew how to tune a suspension for UK roads. They could sort both primary and secondary ride issues for the UK.

HighlandPete

That latter bit being the key, getting both primary and secondary spot on.

This is where I believe Ford with the Focus and Fiesta have it right.

On the Jaguar front, there is still apparently an XE Coupe to come out.

Then I wonder if the Special Operations Division will get to 'play' with one.


It's up to BMW to up their game, just look at the improvements made with ACS Springs (or RS) and Birds ARB's.

[olinjohnston]

I don't really think BMW fears the XE.

It could be the best handling sport sedan ever produced, but it will not sway too many buyers from the 3-Series because it will undoubtedly be tainted by poor marketing, reliability/quality complaints, and lax dealer activity. There aren't even very many places to BUY a Jaguar.

I mean look at their market share for a month of sales this year:



14% of luxury cars sold here in January were BMWs. 0.9% were Jaguars - not even ONE whole percent!

The 3-Series has such a following (that grows ever year) not because it's a better "driver's car," but because it caters to a wider market. The "drivers" demographic is not where volume sales are.

However, the 340i's improvements will surely be adequate to keep loyal the few (loud) BMW owners who are unimpressed with the refined nature of the F3X.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by olinjohnston

I don't really think BMW fears the XE.

It could be the best handling sport sedan ever produced, but it will not sway too many buyers from the 3-Series because it will undoubtedly be tainted by poor marketing, reliability/quality complaints, and lax dealer activity. There aren't even very many places to BUY a Jaguar.

I mean look at their market share for a month of sales this year:



14% of luxury cars sold here in January were BMWs. 0.9% were Jaguars - not even ONE whole percent!



The 3-Series has such a following (that grows ever year) not because it's a better "driver's car," but because it caters to a wider market. The "drivers" demographic is not where volume sales are.

However, the 340i's improvements will surely be adequate to keep loyal the few (loud) BMW owners who are unimpressed with the refined nature of the F3X.

Yeah impressive stats, lol looks like lots of people love Acura and Lincoln, no accounting for taste I guess.

Remember those BMW sales are not just the 3 series, I believe there is also a big wadge of Mini sales mixed in them.

Saying that 1 % with only the XF and the F Type available is not that bad.

I wonder how it will be with XE sales added in next January..

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Edited....It appears the 340i is, in fact, equipped with the Track Handling Package.

Just two quick notes - as noted in the article, it was a standard sport 340i, which lacks the 704 M Sport suspension.....

To some certain extent BMW is a victim of their own success. They take this "Efficient Dynamics" stuff pretty seriously, so fuel mileage and CO2 emissions are very high on their priority list. And they have to be because they produce so many cars. The efficiency of their everyday cars help them offset the sins of their ///M cars.

+1

[NightWriter]

I'm sure the XE is impressive, but I'd like to see some more objective (i.e. less British) reviews.