[Mako]

I know this has been talked about A LOT. But here is my take and question about it.

First BMW pricing is crazy on the M Sport and this package. The BMW X3 M Sport (which we have) was $3,000 for the M sport package and that included: everything the 335xi includes PLUS you got 19" M Wheels AND the Sport transmission with paddle shifters. Its the same look as the $500 option on the 3 series. so Why is the 335 M Sport package $3200 and only comes with 18" wheels and no sport transmission?

Second, about the sport transmission, the description says "ADAPTIVE transmission control" with "extremely fast synchronized shifting". the REGULAR transmission says "extremely fast synchronized shifting"

To me the only difference is the "adaptive" part which based on all other adaptive technology in cars means the car memorizes your behavior and adjusts to it, so if you drive hard all the time the gear box will hold revs higher than if you normally just cruise...

The Sport transmission is not going to make the car shift any faster despite what so many people want to believe. I think if a car magazine tested the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times with both cars they would be identical (with all other factors being equal).

That said, the sport shifter does look really nice, love it in the X3, just not sure I would have paid $500 for it on its own, this should have been included in the M sport package.

[JoeyO]

SUV's traditionally have bigger wheels then sedans. It's just the nature of their design, along with a higher ground clearance.

[Gel214th]

I've heard and read that the car DOES shift faster with the sport transmission, though. The gear changes are smoother.

But yeah, there are many options that should be standard in my view. The black screen, larger iDrive viewscreen, and comfort Access should all be standard. The keyless entry just isn't as fluid without comfort access.

[Mako]

Funny thing is that looking at the "sport transmission" on our X3, I might just get this option for the cosmetic look of it! I much prefer the leather wrapped sport shifter look than the standard one. Its sort of like paying $500 for better trim...

The paddle shifters I am not sure if I would ever use them. Its strange, I use them all the time in my C63 (real aluminum not plastic like most are switching to now) but I never use them in the X3. I tried them several times in the X3 and something just feels off, I think its how the turbo N55 feels compared to the 6.2L V8 I am used to. With the V8 you can really feel the engine speed and know when to shift, with the N55 engine the turbo is smooth through out the RPM range and with 8 gears it seems like its too much of a choir to shift manually because it goes through the gears so quickly. Maybe if its my daily driver I would get used to it...

[verbs]

Originally Posted by Mako

I know this has been talked about A LOT. But here is my take and question about it.

First BMW pricing is crazy on the M Sport and this package. The BMW X3 M Sport (which we have) was $3,000 for the M sport package and that included: everything the 335xi includes PLUS you got 19" M Wheels AND the Sport transmission with paddle shifters. Its the same look as the $500 option on the 3 series. so Why is the 335 M Sport package $3200 and only comes with 18" wheels and no sport transmission?

Doesn't the M Sport package also come with the Sports Suspension over the base model 335i?

You had to pay $1700 anyway to get a sport model with sport suspension and sport seats, so you're really just paying an extra $1500 over that to get the M-sport.

On a side note, I was going to pay an extra $900 on a staggered wheel/tire setup had I gotten a 2012 model just so I could have had 255mm tires on the back for better traction, but the M-sport gives you a staggered setup at no extra charge. So while the wheels are still 18", I get wider/more expensive wheels tires out of it at no extra charge over what I would paid.

Lastly, the M sport model I think has to deal with more configurations because the 335i can be had in both manual and two forms of automatics, which require additional shifter and steering wheel paddle configurations. It also has fog light and non-fog light versions based on climate possibilities (so it appears). That might cost more to have so many variations, don't know.

Lastly, does the sport auto in the X3 m sport work exactly like the sport auto in the 335i M sport?

The Sport transmission is not going to make the car shift any faster despite what so many people want to believe. I think if a car magazine tested the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times with both cars they would be identical (with all other factors being equal).

Just because quarter mile times are equal doesn't mean that the sport auto tranny isn't shifting faster.The fastest tranny shifts are measured in milliseconds.....so we're not talking more than a tenth of a second difference in the 1/4 mile at best and probably nothing material 0-60.

Doesn't the 335i only shift once before 60 mph? Possibly twice? Even if each shift was 50 milliseconds faster in the sport auto vs. regular auto, you're not going to see a tenth of a second difference 0-60.

[SomeRandomer123]

Driving a 328i Standard Auto and owning a 328i Sport Auto, I can confirm mine shifts faster, smoother and just makes the whole car feel much more connected. The standard auto I felt was giving power interruptions which really dampened the drive and gave me a negative view of the car. I also wasn't keen on the look of the Standard Auto in the plastic thingy.
Don't get me wrong, the Standard Auto is still a class leading transmission but the Sport Auto is world leading!

[Mako]

No sport suspension with xdrive but it's the same cost, WTF BMW?

[verbs]

Originally Posted by Mako

No sport suspension with xdrive but it's the same cost, WTF BMW?

BMW's website says that both M-sport and sport lines come with sport suspension. Not sure what you mean. I think the only difference is the car may not be lowered?

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...modelcode=133z

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by verbs

Just because quarter mile times are equal doesn't mean that the sport auto tranny isn't shifting faster.The fastest tranny shifts are measured in milliseconds.....so we're not talking more than a tenth of a second difference in the 1/4 mile at best and probably nothing material 0-60.

Doesn't the 335i only shift once before 60 mph? Possibly twice? Even if each shift was 50 milliseconds faster in the sport auto vs. regular auto, you're not going to see a tenth of a second difference 0-60.

My reasoning as well. It is not going to show in marked improvements in timings, but that is not the whole picture, IMO.

There is some interesting reading out there on 'perceptions' of auto change times. Even though many auto boxes have change times that are faster than what an average (even good) driver of an MT can ever achieve, we still detect a slow auto change, even if it is still less than something like 300 milliseconds. It is where the manual/paddle changes in the ZF 6-speed was seen to be slow by many drivers, even though it isn't really slow.

I see it that the 'feel' of the sport box change characteristic is where some of the 'perception' comes from, rather than just the physical performance. I've said in other posts, I can detect a difference and it just makes the autobox react and 'feel' better, therefore enhances sport style driving.

HighlandPete

[ducatiboy72]

Some people say the sport auto shifts faster, some say it don't. I asked the mechanic at my local BMW dealer and they said there was no difference, however the sales people say the sports auto is faster. The prefer to believe the mechanic. Personally I think the normal auto is fast and will spend the money on a HUD when I order the F31 instead of paying for the sport auto.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ducatiboy72

Some people say the sport auto shifts faster, some say it don't. I asked the mechanic at my local BMW dealer and they said there was no difference, however the sales people say the sports auto is faster. The prefer to believe the mechanic. Personally I think the normal auto is fast and will spend the money on a HUD when I order the F31 instead of paying for the sport auto.

It's BMW that actually says the sport AT has quicker shifts, as well as ZF the company that makes the trans.

ZF says that the 8spd AT does single upshifts at 200 milliseconds.
Downshifts in 100 milliseconds.

The actual difference is going to be subtle, especially in a 0-60 run where there is likely only 1 shift. Since we're dealing in milliseconds, actual accel times won't likely show up in timed runs.
There is greater time variance between runs in the same car, let alone getting any actual time differences between sport and standard AT.

The difference I feel is in the responsiveness of the sport AT. It responds better/quicker to throttle input. That is likely a function of what BMW and ZF both claim.

[ƒ°]

My Sport Auto takes a full 1 second to shift from first gear to second. 200 milliseconds..... I wish.

Knowing that the Non-Sport Auto shifts are slower, it must be unbearable.

[RobUK]

In the UK the Sport auto is just £135 more than the 'standard' auto, so seemed churlish not to go for the Sport version

[Bold Vitalic]

Originally Posted by Tremolo

My Sport Auto takes a full 1 second to shift from first gear to second. 200 milliseconds..... I wish.

Knowing that the Non-Sport Auto shifts are slower, it must be unbearable.

Stop driving it in ECO-Pro

[Bold Vitalic]

Originally Posted by RobUK

In the UK the Sport auto is just £135 more than the 'standard' auto, so seemed churlish not to go for the Sport version

In Russia it's a thousand quids more

[Mako]

Originally Posted by RPM90

It's BMW that actually says the sport AT has quicker shifts, as well as ZF the company that makes the trans.

ZF says that the 8spd AT does single upshifts at 200 milliseconds.
Downshifts in 100 milliseconds.

The actual difference is going to be subtle, especially in a 0-60 run where there is likely only 1 shift. Since we're dealing in milliseconds, actual accel times won't likely show up in timed runs.
There is greater time variance between runs in the same car, let alone getting any actual time differences between sport and standard AT.

The difference I feel is in the responsiveness of the sport AT. It responds better/quicker to throttle input. That is likely a function of what BMW and ZF both claim.

BMW does claim this somewhere? on the US site it just says both transmissions have ultra fast shifting, uses the same exact words for both descriptions. My neighbor works for ZF, I will ask him next time I see him if he knows anything about the BMW application of their transmissions.

Also I just checked out the BMW UK Website where its $160 pounds more for the sport automatic (which is $250 US) and their description says:
"adds Sport + mode to the drive performance control including gear selector lever and quick shift steering wheel mounted paddles on the sport leather steering wheel"
That's it, nothing about shifting faster or changing any software.

The only thing Sport + does is automatically de-activate all traction assist functions which you can do on your own with the normal automatic, just have to push a couple extra buttons.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by Mako

BMW does claim this somewhere? on the US site it just says both transmissions have ultra fast shifting, uses the same exact words for both descriptions. My neighbor works for ZF, I will ask him next time I see him if he knows anything about the BMW application of their transmissions.

Also I just checked out the BMW UK Website where its $160 pounds more for the sport automatic (which is $250 US) and their description says:
"adds Sport + mode to the drive performance control including gear selector lever and quick shift steering wheel mounted paddles on the sport leather steering wheel"
That's it, nothing about shifting faster or changing any software.

The only thing Sport + does is automatically de-activate all traction assist functions which you can do on your own with the normal automatic, just have to push a couple extra buttons.

I agree. I think this is another one of BMW's word plays. Basically, for the sport trans, you're just paying for the shifters, shifter, and an automated function to disengage the training wheels. Even if it was software, at least those who don't have it can upgrade their software at a later date I'm sure. Probably cheaper. They just won't have the fancy shifters and gear selector.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I agree. I think this is another one of BMW's word plays. Basically, for the sport trans, you're just paying for the shifters, shifter, and an automated function to disengage the training wheels. Even if it was software, at least those who don't have it can upgrade their software at a later date I'm sure. Probably cheaper. They just won't have the fancy shifters and gear selector.

I am not knocking those who ordered it, just that BMW is charging the US $500 for this, while Europe only pays $250 for the same option, and this is part of the M Sport package in the X3 which is cheaper than the 3 series M sport...

despite it being outragious in price for what you get I am still considering it because after parking my X3 next to my parents X5 today and comparing the shifters (they have the basic one, I have the sport one that came with the M Sport package) the sport one looks, well, sportier! I would have a hard time going from my X3 with the sport shifter to the 335i without it
But you get plastic shifters which as we know from the old 1 and 3 series really should only cost $100 extra, you get like $25 in leather around the shifter (very small amount of leather!) and a sportier design shifter which costs the same as the normal one. If they would have at least given us aluminum shift paddles that would seem a little more reasonable, or more control of the throttle with this option via idrive settings...

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Mako

BMW does claim this somewhere? on the US site it just says both transmissions have ultra fast shifting, uses the same exact words for both descriptions. My neighbor works for ZF, I will ask him next time I see him if he knows anything about the BMW application of their transmissions.

Also I just checked out the BMW UK Website where its $160 pounds more for the sport automatic (which is $250 US) and their description says:
"adds Sport + mode to the drive performance control including gear selector lever and quick shift steering wheel mounted paddles on the sport leather steering wheel"
That's it, nothing about shifting faster or changing any software.

The only thing Sport + does is automatically de-activate all traction assist functions which you can do on your own with the normal automatic, just have to push a couple extra buttons.

Guys, you're going to have to do some research if you want to know things beyond marketing.
There isn't a lot out there, but there is some info if you look for it.

I've posted about this before.
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=sport

It's not on BMWusa.com website.
Also, do some web searches, and check out ZF's site, and do some searches there.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Tremolo

My Sport Auto takes a full 1 second to shift from first gear to second. 200 milliseconds..... I wish.

Knowing that the Non-Sport Auto shifts are slower, it must be unbearable.

Is this when it's cold?

What "drive" mode are you in?

Of all the shifts, the 1-2 does seem to be slowest in all 3's I've tested.
But mostly when cold and in comfort mode.
The most noticeable slow 1-2 shifts were in non sport AT's.
Subsequent shifts are faster.

Taking a full second to change would feel like it was slipping.
Does it feel that bad?

I can see a typical AT taking a second or longer to respond to a shift request and execute it. But, for the actual shift to take a second seems long to me, especially in this trans.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Guys, you're going to have to do some research if you want to know things beyond marketing.
There isn't a lot out there, but there is some info if you look for it.

I've posted about this before.
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=sport

It's not on BMWusa.com website.
Also, do some web searches, and check out ZF's site, and do some searches there.

So, as far as the shift times with the 328i Sport Auto being "quicker" what does that get you? If the regular 328i auto gets you 0-60 in 5.9 or so, I would assume that the 328i sport auto can get you 0-60 in 5.6? I'm not sure .03 seconds would matter much to the masses. Perhaps if you could get half a second faster? That's getting into 335i territory.

Can someone PLEASE perform a head-to-head comparison of both auto trans? Forgive me, but I've been reading the trans threads and haven't seen any road tests between the two. That would help people get a better feel for what $500 gets them. To be honest, in my opinion, a .03 second difference is not enough to get me to part with $500. Paddles and gear shifters are just cosmetics. If I could get to 0-60 in under 5.4 seconds with the sport auto, then I could part with the $500. Because I'd essentially have a 335i in a 328i shell.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

So, as far as the shift times with the 328i Sport Auto being "quicker" what does that get you? If the regular 328i auto gets you 0-60 in 5.9 or so, I would assume that the 328i sport auto can get you 0-60 in 5.6? I'm not sure .03 seconds would matter much to the masses. Perhaps if you could get half a second faster? That's getting into 335i territory.

Can someone PLEASE perform a head-to-head comparison of both auto trans? Forgive me, but I've been reading the trans threads and haven't seen any road tests between the two. That would help people get a better feel for what $500 gets them. To be honest, in my opinion, a .03 second difference is not enough to get me to part with $500. Paddles and gear shifters are just cosmetics. If I could get to 0-60 in under 5.4 seconds with the sport auto, then I could part with the $500. Because I'd essentially have a 335i in a 328i shell.

0-60 times will be identical (between the two transmissions), I would put money on that. If it is more than cosmetic there is still only one shift when going to 60 and any software change might take off 0.001 seconds