[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance

Pfff

Good luck Lexus. Maybe if you focused on actual driving dynamics instead of dressing up Camrys you might have a shot.

At least they are doing one thing right... if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

And they certainly know who the best is.

Pffff

If you think this IS is a dressed up "Camry"...

[richb811]

Originally Posted by Levi

Pffff

If you think this IS is a dressed up "Camry"...

No

I didn't say that. I said if they stopped spending so much time dressing up Camrys (The ES class) and focused on having one Mid size offering with one platform, then they would have a shot. Being that that is not a probability, I don't think they have a shot.

So yourself.

[bronco]

BMW is looking more and more like Lexus, Lexus is trying to look like BMW....go figure....
Anyways, this new Lexus design is not for me. I was hoping that they would bring back some of the original IS 300 style with modern and more aggressive lines.
Oh....and no manual transmission???

[nbkkvv5]

Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance

No

I didn't say that. I said if they stopped spending so much time dressing up Camrys (The ES class) and focused on having one Mid size offering with one platform, then they would have a shot. Being that that is not a probability, I don't think they have a shot.

So yourself.

Fyi, the new ES is NOT based on the Camry platform. Further Toyota and BWM will be working together on new tech that includes a joint platform concept for a mid-size sports vehicle.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/25/b...ew-sports-car/

http://wot.motortrend.com/official-b...#axzz2J1Lwd8Ur

[richb811]

Originally Posted by nbkkvv5

Fyi, the new ES is NOT based on the Camry platform. Further Toyota and BWM will be working together on new tech that includes a joint platform concept for a mid-size sports vehicle.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/25/b...ew-sports-car/

http://wot.motortrend.com/official-b...#axzz2J1Lwd8Ur

You are correct Sir.

But the Avalon platform is still mightily close in concept and design to the Camry platform, with the weight and wheelbase being slightly different.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance

So yourself.

Are you messing with me?

[richb811]

Originally Posted by Levi

Are you messing with me?

Maybe...

But its Friday and time to

[ScarecrowBoat]

I literally hate every inch of that car. Checked out the 2013 Lexus' at an autoshow recently and they were all just the most drab pieces of luxury imaginable. Absolutely not bad cars, but it's like dating a girl with average looks who is just brilliant, a good cook, wonderful conversationalist, good job, low-maintenance, nice to your friends....but just BAD in bed.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat

I literally hate every inch of that car. Checked out the 2013 Lexus' at an autoshow recently and they were all just the most drab pieces of luxury imaginable. Absolutely not bad cars, but it's like dating a girl with average looks who is just brilliant, a good cook, wonderful conversationalist, good job, low-maintenance, nice to your friends....but just BAD in bed.

That can be tought.

[nbkkvv5]

Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat

I literally hate every inch of that car. Checked out the 2013 Lexus' at an autoshow recently and they were all just the most drab pieces of luxury imaginable. Absolutely not bad cars, but it's like dating a girl with average looks who is just brilliant, a good cook, wonderful conversationalist, good job, low-maintenance, nice to your friends....but just BAD in bed.

So that makes the BMW great in bed, but temperamental, high maintenance, expensive to own, slightly above average looks and something you dump at the first sign of trouble

[py0413]

well, lots of bias (or emanational & immature) opinions here. anyways, it's a BMW forum again after all.

I don't like the overall package this new IS is to deliver, but I admire that they are trying especially with something different (design-wise). A new engine with more power and better efficient should be needed, as well as a new transmission. The look of the car inside/outside, I don't know, it's a personal preference. Neither do I think the F30 is too attractive.

[DrivenByE30]

regardless of what we think... the reality is that both cars, together with the ATS and the current A4 and the future C-class and the upcoming Q50 (lame name) will be sharing tightly the market...

it will be a 6-way split ! all cars have gotten their own advantages...

Just like py0413, i dont think the F30 is head and shoulder above the rest anymore... it might be a foot ahead, the rest and following behind real closely if not about the step on it...

The next 3 series will have to be a real McCoy if it wants to maintain its lead !

People have been copying & imitating the 3series long enough, they are starting to get good at it.

I hated the new IS, but the more i look at it, (especially in darker colors), i am seeing a great product like the initial IS was.

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance

Pfff

Good luck Lexus. Maybe if you focused on actual driving dynamics instead of dressing up Camrys you might have a shot.

At least they are doing one thing right... if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

And they certainly know who the best is.

I think they have done excellent job in GS that knocked out the F10.

What makes you so sure they wouldn't do the same to F30?

[300hp]

Originally Posted by JamRWS6

Faster maybe because of the car they are in. I was only talking about the engine itself. For reference that same 3.5 v6 in a GS350 will outrun my 535i with the N55.

The 535 and the G350 are within 0.1s to 60 and are flat at the quarter mile. The N55 has the edge here though since the F10 weighs 200lbs More

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html

The GS350 is faster than the N20 at the 60 and quarter mile.

[mesh77]

I've never EVER seen a car company exec give such a frank critique of their own vehicle, great video.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by mesh77

I've never EVER seen a car company exec give such a frank critique of their own vehicle, great video.

Self crtitique makes you advance. I wish BMW did that too, say for the Z2 FWD.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

I think they have done excellent job in GS that knocked out the F10.

What makes you so sure they wouldn't do the same to F30?

F10 has too much F01 in it now, look at the weight. Luckily the F30 has not gained weight and is more or less on it's own platform.

[richb811]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

I think they have done excellent job in GS that knocked out the F10.

What makes you so sure they wouldn't do the same to F30?

I'm not sure I'd agree on it knocking out the F10.

Lackluster V-6 engine, Sloppy handling. GS-450h doesn't even come close to comparing to the 550i in Power, acceleration or exterior styling.

Granted, I'll give it the interior is nice, but that has always been a strong point of Lexus.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

[Craigito]

Cant get past that grill. Ugh. Pretty honest assessment.

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance

I'm not sure I'd agree on it knocking out the F10.

Lackluster V-6 engine, Sloppy handling. GS-450h doesn't even come close to comparing to the 550i in Power, acceleration or exterior styling.

Granted, I'll give it the interior is nice, but that has always been a strong point of Lexus.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

Ok- you are comparing a hybrid to a turbo car.

GS350 F sport trounced 535i. Those are direct competitor.

The fact is F10 is softer, slower, and porkier to drive.

So how is this not a knock out???

[nbkkvv5]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

Ok- you are comparing a hybrid to a turbo car.

GS350 F sport trounced 535i. Those are direct competitor.

The fact is F10 is softer, slower, and porkier to drive.

So how is this not a knock out???

The 4th gen GS has come a long way and it's an excellent car. Does it trounce the 535...I would say no but the GS is every bit as good as the 535 and then some.
The GS finished 1st in a comparo on motor trend...very impressive indeed.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...luxury_sedans/

[Crom28_E92N55]

nice try.. But keep trying.