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      02-22-2018, 04:36 PM   #45
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Having owned a 2013 Q5, I still look in on the Q5 forum at Audiworld. After over a year on the market there doesn't seem to be any widespread or major issues with the Mexico built new gen Q5. Probably too early to declare no problems, but so far so good,
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      02-22-2018, 05:02 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jrboulder View Post
LOL, yeah right. Mexican industrial production is down 0.7% year-on-year, American industrial production is up 3.7% YoY and Canadian industrial production is up 4.5% YoY.

Personally I'd rather buy a Mexican-built car than a German-built car. No way do I want to pay for some $67/hr union goofball to snap plastic pieces together in the periphery of their lunch with beer.

Still, Mexico has a long way to go before they have the human capital and domestic stability to be a stand-alone player in the automotive world.
Wasn't it obvious I was talking about auto manufacturing? Other than that, fair points. Except the beer guzzling german thing. That's about stereotypical as it gets too.
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      02-22-2018, 05:03 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Bob in IL View Post
Having owned a 2013 Q5, I still look in on the Q5 forum at Audiworld. After over a year on the market there doesn't seem to be any widespread or major issues with the Mexico built new gen Q5. Probably too early to declare no problems, but so far so good,
Yeah, it's not only Audi too. Almost every brand builds some car/truck here these days for export.
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      02-22-2018, 05:08 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by El Conquistador View Post
Can't tell if this thread is more discriminatory to Mexico or South Africa.
About even lol.
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      02-22-2018, 07:20 PM   #49
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I wonder about the auto "ecosystem" in the particular country. The auto plants are usually referred to as the "final assembly plant" but I wonder what components are made in/near Rosslyn vs Germany or other countries? Are interior pieces, panels, electrical components, etc made in South Africa or imported from elsewhere? Anyone know?

I'm sure all components are spec'd out, but for example, could things like the interior quality materials-wise (plastics, leather) not assembly vary slightly from Germany to SA or Mexico (perhaps it's better!)?

Last edited by misterjim; 02-22-2018 at 07:30 PM..
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      02-22-2018, 07:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjim View Post
I wonder about the auto "ecosystem" in the particular country. The auto plants are usually referred to as the "final assembly plant" but I wonder what components are made in/near Rosslyn vs Germany or other countries? Are interior pieces, panels, electrical components, etc made in South Africa or imported from elsewhere? Anyone know?

I'm sure all components are spec'd out, but for example, could things like the interior quality materials-wise (plastics, leather) not assembly vary slightly from Germany to SA or Mexico (perhaps it's better!)?
I think those are excellent reflections. What I can tell you is that locally (I live in the Bajio area of Mexico now) when I talk about ecosystem I am thinking of this:

- Several final assembly plants from diverse manufacturers in the general geographic area (within say 200-300 miles of each other)
- Many parts suppliers locally that feed these plants
- Very importantly, a relatively large work force with experience in the sector
- Parts suppliers that feed plants elsewhere

As a matter of fact, I think we can actually talk of "the NAFTA ecosystem" for building cars. Lots of parts cross the border in both directions. Our cheaper labour actually helps US plants to stay open and competitive with say, plants in China or Europe.

Trade is not a zero sum game. Since NAFTA, the auto industry has expanded in all 3 countries, partly because the free trade among us enables greater overall competitiveness.

I am sure there are risks involved in starting up a new auto plant anywhere. I am also pretty confident that BMW has the processes in place to do it well.
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      02-22-2018, 07:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jrboulder View Post
Oh well, once we rip up NAFTA and build a wall you won't have to deal with us anymore
Interestingly, Mexico tends to do factually better when you are under a republican administration. Even though the rhetoric may be more aggressive.

I am frankly surprised at how little negative impact on us the new US administration has had so far. I was extremely pessimistic after your election and braced for a recession.

None of that has happened. And it's looking increasingly that NAFTA may be updated including some things that I think we definitely can use the pressure on:

- Anti-corruption chapter (this is critical and the bane of Mexico)
- A requirement to raise wages and standard of living. We cannot continue to base our competitiveness on cheap labour. That path is stupid, so I am actually thankful for the pressure in that area
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      02-22-2018, 08:27 PM   #52
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Hats off to BMW for taking a long term view and investing in the communities where they manufacture cars. I think the US big three have had a much worse record at home and overseas in that regard. BMW is a force for positive growth in developing countries.

On the negative side - those cool special edition cars have their steering wheels on the wrong side.
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      02-22-2018, 09:44 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ska///235i View Post
Racist? Relax man!

All my BMWs were made in Germany for the last 16 years and if that isnt the case anymore then Im not paying that Premium to have something made else where....is simple as that!

I could care less how good the plan is (wherever is at). If BMW wants to cut cost to have it made somewhere else then apply that saving to the customers also.
Right, so you couldn't care less about quality or how good the plant is, as long as the car isn't made by someone who isn't white. Crystal clear.
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      02-22-2018, 10:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
Right, so you couldn't care less about quality or how good the plant is, as long as the car isn't made by someone who isn't white. Crystal clear.
This is dumb on your part, I never knew only Germany had white people. He clearly said Germany vs "anywhere" which could mean any country which had white people as well.

Stop trying to turn everything into racism.
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      02-22-2018, 11:03 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Swappy View Post
This is dumb on your part, I never knew only Germany had white people. He clearly said Germany vs "anywhere" which could mean any country which had white people as well.

Stop trying to turn everything into racism.
Judging by the overall tone of his post, my post isn't that much of a reach.
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      02-23-2018, 12:38 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
Wasn't it obvious I was talking about auto manufacturing? Other than that, fair points. Except the beer guzzling german thing. That's about stereotypical as it gets too.
Not really. When I visited the Munich plant a few years ago, I personally saw production line workers indulging with a glass of beer at lunch. There was a free beer dispensing machine in the cafeteria.
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      02-23-2018, 06:22 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
Wasn't it obvious I was talking about auto manufacturing? Other than that, fair points. Except the beer guzzling german thing. That's about stereotypical as it gets too.
Not really. When I visited the Munich plant a few years ago, I personally saw production line workers indulging with a glass of beer at lunch. There was a free beer dispensing machine in the cafeteria.
Where do I send my resume?
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      02-23-2018, 06:31 AM   #58
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SA cars were great quality. Have had tons of customers with them and they were literally more reliable haha. When VW made the switch to Mexico plants. Terrible quality came with. Same will happen with the 3 series.
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      02-23-2018, 07:02 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjim View Post
I wonder about the auto "ecosystem" in the particular country. The auto plants are usually referred to as the "final assembly plant" but I wonder what components are made in/near Rosslyn vs Germany or other countries? Are interior pieces, panels, electrical components, etc made in South Africa or imported from elsewhere? Anyone know?

I'm sure all components are spec'd out, but for example, could things like the interior quality materials-wise (plastics, leather) not assembly vary slightly from Germany to SA or Mexico (perhaps it's better!)?
I can't think of a single high volume OEM that makes their own parts. Every american/jdm/euro company only assembles parts that they design, but the individual components are manufactured by other suppliers. The only thing they likely do in house is stamping some of the body/frame, but even then most if not all exterior body panels are outsourced. You can be certain that a large number of the highest volume components (switches, screws, led lights, etc) are outsourced from outside the country.

When i worked for a supplier, we had components that only shipped to american plants. Then we had satellite locations in other countries that made components for the same vehicle but manufactured in other markets. China is a big one, because with their Patent laws if you don't have a manufacturing site in their country, they can (and will) copy your designs with no recourse. Plus it's easier to have a separate plant that makes RHD/ROW compliant vehicles rather than having one plant that switches back and forth between designs.
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      02-23-2018, 07:25 AM   #60
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My first BMW, a 2005 E46 328i, was a South Africa-build. It was great - green with tan leather. Had some issues, but my Canadian-made Honda Civic had issues too!

Not a single issue was due to build quality. I would have zero issues picking up a SA build model.
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      02-23-2018, 07:40 AM   #61
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Only one reason BMW has decided to produce 3 series in Mexico... profits. Anyone who believes otherwise (like to empower poor communities) is delusional.

Pay the poor peanuts to make cars for the rich. Common trend these days!
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      02-23-2018, 08:10 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Only one reason BMW has decided to produce 3 series in Mexico... profits. Anyone who believes otherwise (like to empower poor communities) is delusional.

Pay the poor peanuts to make cars for the rich. Common trend these days!
The workmanship coming from Mexico promaster and 200 have been horrible. Hopefully bmw will have super strict QC to make sure the new g body 3 series doesn't become utter crap.
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      02-23-2018, 08:57 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrifterX View Post
So North American 3 Series will now come from Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska///235i View Post
Hahaha, good luck future buyers
from a brand new factory with brand new equipment with workers trained solely on the brand new equipment? whats the problem there?
Higher probability that the dealer, after I complain about wheel shimmy, finds a brick of cocaine strapped to the rim inside the tire.
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      02-23-2018, 09:05 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
SA cars were great quality. Have had tons of customers with them and they were literally more reliable haha. When VW made the switch to Mexico plants. Terrible quality came with. Same will happen with the 3 series.
IIRC my old 1999.5 VW Jetta was assembled in Mexico. My father found a paint run(base coat) on the c-pillar and tire shops couldn't align the rears.

When I approached the dealer about the paint run he said they could fix it, but advised not to because the baking process would age the interior plastics. He was right. A year later I had the car repainted because of hail damage and the interior plastics took a beating. It was a fun car.
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      02-23-2018, 09:13 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328 View Post
Right, so you couldn't care less about quality or how good the plant is, as long as the car isn't made by someone who isn't white. Crystal clear.
I don't see his 2 posts in this thread having anything to do with race.
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      02-23-2018, 09:34 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjim View Post
I wonder about the auto "ecosystem" in the particular country. The auto plants are usually referred to as the "final assembly plant" but I wonder what components are made in/near Rosslyn vs Germany or other countries? Are interior pieces, panels, electrical components, etc made in South Africa or imported from elsewhere? Anyone know?

I'm sure all components are spec'd out, but for example, could things like the interior quality materials-wise (plastics, leather) not assembly vary slightly from Germany to SA or Mexico (perhaps it's better!)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
I think those are excellent reflections. What I can tell you is that locally (I live in the Bajio area of Mexico now) when I talk about ecosystem I am thinking of this:

- Several final assembly plants from diverse manufacturers in the general geographic area (within say 200-300 miles of each other)
- Many parts suppliers locally that feed these plants
- Very importantly, a relatively large work force with experience in the sector
- Parts suppliers that feed plants elsewhere

As a matter of fact, I think we can actually talk of "the NAFTA ecosystem" for building cars. Lots of parts cross the border in both directions. Our cheaper labour actually helps US plants to stay open and competitive with say, plants in China or Europe.

Trade is not a zero sum game. Since NAFTA, the auto industry has expanded in all 3 countries, partly because the free trade among us enables greater overall competitiveness.

I am sure there are risks involved in starting up a new auto plant anywhere. I am also pretty confident that BMW has the processes in place to do it well.
So question on the supplier part of the subject. With a plant in Germany, South Africa, Mexico, and South Carolina, all producing vehicles that can be had with dakota leather, is there one supplier that ships the leather seat covers to all 4 plants? Or do they have a different supplier in each country/region? I am only using the seat leather as an example of a same part that is used at several plants.
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