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      10-26-2012, 02:44 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
This is nothing compared to some of the crap that was on F10 forum.

I count three 335s here from Chicago (including the OP), the 'second city' so you see understand the motivation (inferiority complex)
And you are from Asia?



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      10-26-2012, 03:14 AM   #156
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And you are from Asia?



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Are you implying Asians are inferior? (=Nazi.. )
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      10-26-2012, 03:20 AM   #157
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Are you implying Asians are inferior? (=Nazi.. )
Those are your own words my friend.

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      10-26-2012, 08:06 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
I was just trying to make a point in an argument. I should have said "I was an elitist" as it would have been clearer. And don't confuse my point with my present lifestyle. My point is that an F30 is no enthusiasts ride anymore, BMW themselves are making that quite clear. My lifestyle is one in which I don't need a car to show off anything, I drive the F30 because it's (finally) a comfortable car with throaty acceleration and great road manners.

Like anyone who spends $50,000 on a luxury car, there's a modicum of self-loving ego-stroking involved. You'd be driving a WRX if there wasn't.

BJ
You may have trying to make some point, but you derailed yourself, because you're now coming across negatively, and acting as if only you know what a real BMW 3 series owner is, and anyone who says that they enjoy their 3 series as a fun to driving sporty sedan should wake up and then move on, to some other car, I guess.

Again, you make stuff up and call it 'truth'.

No, by your own posts, you ARE an "elitist" as you think owning a luxury line BMW makes you special, because it's a "status symbol", and you enjoy flaunting it. If that is what makes you happy, fine, but many of us don't see it that way.

The base 3 has always had a nice comfortable ride, the F30 in base, luxury, and modern without a sport suspension is also a nice, soft riding, and soft handling car, just as base 3's before.
Is it a bit softer now? Yes, it is. If that's all it took for you to finally enjoy it, great. But don't lay your opinions onto everyone else as if we bought our sport/Msport BMW's to appeal to others for our own vanity.

Many of us bought our BMW's for what the offer in driving performance compared to other cars and brands. Not even once did it occur to me, "Yeah, I now have a car brand that others will envy me."

BTW, I think the WRX is a very fun to drive car, but it's design in and out doesn't appeal to me.
A few years back I nearly bought a Legacy GT B-spec. It was very fun to drive, and offered the same creature comforts of the then current 3 series. But, I couldn't get comfy in the seats, so it was a no go.

The 3 is also not a true luxury car. Besides, what is "luxury" in a car has become muddled over the past few years, when even "economy" cars cann be loaded with heated leather seats, NAV, higher quality audio systems, Blue Tooth connectivity, nicely designed and executed dash and guages, etc...
Before the 2013 model year, power seats weren't even standard, and a sunroof isn't even standard on a 328i, not to mention a base audio system that's still lacking, and an optional HK upgrade that doesn't perform as a well as a nearly $1000 upgrade should. "Luxury" indeed.

Those are items that are a given in a true luxury car.
The 3 can be optioned to have a greater amount of content to appeal to those who want more luxury, but in base form, it's no way near a "luxury" automobile. That's why it typically described as a "premium" automobile, and some times a "NEAR luxury" car.

Sumptuous leather? Not in your 3 series unless you special ordered leather that's different from what the rest of us get. It's decent leather, but perhaps you haven't sat on or felt a high quality leather seat, could be.

The 3 as "sport sedan". Oh, yes, it is. The 3 when optioned as such, is still a driving enthusiast car, that appeals to those of us who want a nicely styled, well engineered, fun to drive automobile, that also offers some nice creature comforts.
As I said, we're under no delusion that this is a 'track ready', dedicated sports car. I don't know who's been saying that around here, but if they did, then by all means they need perception correction. But you clump everyone together and then decide they're all wrong because you're right.

Yes, the F30 is a bit softer than before, and I do wish the sport suspension and adaptive were a bit firmer with better sway bars, but when you option the 3 with the sport items it becomes a better drivers car that does appeal to driving enthusiasts.
Nothing wrong with a non sport 3. If that's what you want, great, it's still a fine automobile. That however in no way means it's not now a 'sport sedan'.
Even in previous gen 3's, the versions that appeal to enthusiasts have always been the "sport" optioned 3's.

If BMW stops offering a sport package 3, I will no longer be driving a 3 series, simple as that. That has not happened, and thus no need for us to move along.

I think I've written more than enough/too much, so I will now sit down and shut up.
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      10-26-2012, 09:19 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
You may have trying to make some point, but you derailed yourself, because you're now coming across negatively, and acting as if only you know what a real BMW 3 series owner is, and anyone who says that they enjoy their 3 series as a fun to driving sporty sedan should wake up and then move on, to some other car, I guess.

Again, you make stuff up and call it 'truth'.

No, by your own posts, you ARE an "elitist" as you think owning a luxury line BMW makes you special, because it's a "status symbol", and you enjoy flaunting it. If that is what makes you happy, fine, but many of us don't see it that way.

The base 3 has always had a nice comfortable ride, the F30 in base, luxury, and modern without a sport suspension is also a nice, soft riding, and soft handling car, just as base 3's before.
Is it a bit softer now? Yes, it is. If that's all it took for you to finally enjoy it, great. But don't lay your opinions onto everyone else as if we bought our sport/Msport BMW's to appeal to others for our own vanity.

Many of us bought our BMW's for what the offer in driving performance compared to other cars and brands. Not even once did it occur to me, "Yeah, I now have a car brand that others will envy me."

BTW, I think the WRX is a very fun to drive car, but it's design in and out doesn't appeal to me.
A few years back I nearly bought a Legacy GT B-spec. It was very fun to drive, and offered the same creature comforts of the then current 3 series. But, I couldn't get comfy in the seats, so it was a no go.

The 3 is also not a true luxury car. Besides, what is "luxury" in a car has become muddled over the past few years, when even "economy" cars cann be loaded with heated leather seats, NAV, higher quality audio systems, Blue Tooth connectivity, nicely designed and executed dash and guages, etc...
Before the 2013 model year, power seats weren't even standard, and a sunroof isn't even standard on a 328i, not to mention a base audio system that's still lacking, and an optional HK upgrade that doesn't perform as a well as a nearly $1000 upgrade should. "Luxury" indeed.

Those are items that are a given in a true luxury car.
The 3 can be optioned to have a greater amount of content to appeal to those who want more luxury, but in base form, it's no way near a "luxury" automobile. That's why it typically described as a "premium" automobile, and some times a "NEAR luxury" car.

Sumptuous leather? Not in your 3 series unless you special ordered leather that's different from what the rest of us get. It's decent leather, but perhaps you haven't sat on or felt a high quality leather seat, could be.

The 3 as "sport sedan". Oh, yes, it is. The 3 when optioned as such, is still a driving enthusiast car, that appeals to those of us who want a nicely styled, well engineered, fun to drive automobile, that also offers some nice creature comforts.
As I said, we're under no delusion that this is a 'track ready', dedicated sports car. I don't know who's been saying that around here, but if they did, then by all means they need perception correction. But you clump everyone together and then decide they're all wrong because you're right.

Yes, the F30 is a bit softer than before, and I do wish the sport suspension and adaptive were a bit firmer with better sway bars, but when you option the 3 with the sport items it becomes a better drivers car that does appeal to driving enthusiasts.
Nothing wrong with a non sport 3. If that's what you want, great, it's still a fine automobile. That however in no way means it's not now a 'sport sedan'.
Even in previous gen 3's, the versions that appeal to enthusiasts have always been the "sport" optioned 3's.

If BMW stops offering a sport package 3, I will no longer be driving a 3 series, simple as that. That has not happened, and thus no need for us to move along.

I think I've written more than enough/too much, so I will now sit down and shut up.


Well said, about time.
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      10-26-2012, 09:33 PM   #160
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Zips flame suit...

The 3 IS track ready as delivered. But by that I mean it's wholly capable of being taken out on a track and driven hard, right out of the box. Air up the tires and go. Very few other cars on the market are designed to withstand this punishment. BMW always recognizes it's a possibility and accounts for it in the design.

Now, without a doubt, it would be a better track car with some selective upgrades. But they're certainly not mandatory.
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      10-26-2012, 09:41 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
You may have trying to make some point, but you derailed yourself, because you're now coming across negatively, and acting as if only you know what a real BMW 3 series owner is, and anyone who says that they enjoy their 3 series as a fun to driving sporty sedan should wake up and then move on, to some other car, I guess.

Again, you make stuff up and call it 'truth'.

No, by your own posts, you ARE an "elitist" as you think owning a luxury line BMW makes you special, because it's a "status symbol", and you enjoy flaunting it. If that is what makes you happy, fine, but many of us don't see it that way.

The base 3 has always had a nice comfortable ride, the F30 in base, luxury, and modern without a sport suspension is also a nice, soft riding, and soft handling car, just as base 3's before.
Is it a bit softer now? Yes, it is. If that's all it took for you to finally enjoy it, great. But don't lay your opinions onto everyone else as if we bought our sport/Msport BMW's to appeal to others for our own vanity.

Many of us bought our BMW's for what the offer in driving performance compared to other cars and brands. Not even once did it occur to me, "Yeah, I now have a car brand that others will envy me."

BTW, I think the WRX is a very fun to drive car, but it's design in and out doesn't appeal to me.
A few years back I nearly bought a Legacy GT B-spec. It was very fun to drive, and offered the same creature comforts of the then current 3 series. But, I couldn't get comfy in the seats, so it was a no go.

The 3 is also not a true luxury car. Besides, what is "luxury" in a car has become muddled over the past few years, when even "economy" cars cann be loaded with heated leather seats, NAV, higher quality audio systems, Blue Tooth connectivity, nicely designed and executed dash and guages, etc...
Before the 2013 model year, power seats weren't even standard, and a sunroof isn't even standard on a 328i, not to mention a base audio system that's still lacking, and an optional HK upgrade that doesn't perform as a well as a nearly $1000 upgrade should. "Luxury" indeed.

Those are items that are a given in a true luxury car.
The 3 can be optioned to have a greater amount of content to appeal to those who want more luxury, but in base form, it's no way near a "luxury" automobile. That's why it typically described as a "premium" automobile, and some times a "NEAR luxury" car.

Sumptuous leather? Not in your 3 series unless you special ordered leather that's different from what the rest of us get. It's decent leather, but perhaps you haven't sat on or felt a high quality leather seat, could be.

The 3 as "sport sedan". Oh, yes, it is. The 3 when optioned as such, is still a driving enthusiast car, that appeals to those of us who want a nicely styled, well engineered, fun to drive automobile, that also offers some nice creature comforts.
As I said, we're under no delusion that this is a 'track ready', dedicated sports car. I don't know who's been saying that around here, but if they did, then by all means they need perception correction. But you clump everyone together and then decide they're all wrong because you're right.

Yes, the F30 is a bit softer than before, and I do wish the sport suspension and adaptive were a bit firmer with better sway bars, but when you option the 3 with the sport items it becomes a better drivers car that does appeal to driving enthusiasts.
Nothing wrong with a non sport 3. If that's what you want, great, it's still a fine automobile. That however in no way means it's not now a 'sport sedan'.
Even in previous gen 3's, the versions that appeal to enthusiasts have always been the "sport" optioned 3's.

If BMW stops offering a sport package 3, I will no longer be driving a 3 series, simple as that. That has not happened, and thus no need for us to move along.

I think I've written more than enough/too much, so I will now sit down and shut up.
I'm sorry, but was I actually supposed to read that?

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      10-26-2012, 10:16 PM   #162
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I've decided I don't like any of you at all. There's no reason to justify your behavior. If you feel like you have to defend yourself, you clearly care what other people think.

That said, the logic that debadging a car could somehow be used as an elitist ploy to convince the unassuming of money you don't have just doesn't hold up. I don't care about how much any of you make. I only care about how much money I make and what it can afford me.

And by the way, if enjoying a purchase I've made includes seeing people look at my shiny new car, then that's my prerogative. It doesn't mean I'm flashy. It means I'm glad other people agree with my purchase. It's not required, but boy does it feel nice.

I also want to point out that there's nothing wrong with being an elitist. If you can afford to flaunt your wealth and such behavior doesn't compromise your relationships with those who are important to you, then I support you. Your life worked out better than most. But if you start lording your wealth over others as if it makes you better than them, you probably suck and I don't like you at all.

So the difference between me, an elitist, and a status-driven person? My elitism runs deep in the bones of my high horse. And if you were wondering, yes, I bought that high horse because I liked its coat.
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      10-27-2012, 12:51 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
I've decided I don't like any of you at all. There's no reason to justify your behavior. If you feel like you have to defend yourself, you clearly care what other people think.

So the difference between me, an elitist, and a status-driven person? My elitism runs deep in the bones of my high horse. And if you were wondering, yes, I bought that high horse because I liked its coat.
1. You drive a truck.

2. We don't like you either.

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      10-27-2012, 02:07 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames
Quote:
Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
I've decided I don't like any of you at all. There's no reason to justify your behavior. If you feel like you have to defend yourself, you clearly care what other people think.

So the difference between me, an elitist, and a status-driven person? My elitism runs deep in the bones of my high horse. And if you were wondering, yes, I bought that high horse because I liked its coat.
1. You drive a truck.

2. We don't like you either.

BJ
That's a cute argument. It's just a car, bud. And it's mine, and I like it for me. Which is similar to your car; it's yours and I like it, for you.

This thread seems to be in place only to remind all of you that your cars are your own and you should do with them as you please. All this talk of embarrassing the BMW reputation and the dilution of the brand is nonsense. I say this thread should be closed. It's not productive.
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      10-27-2012, 02:22 AM   #165
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Who cares! Do what you want with your own money rofl. I found this thread so very entertaining.

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      10-27-2012, 05:31 AM   #166
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Here are some more information about badges in Germany:
- most of the company cars in Germany will be ordered without a badge. For example in my company (bank) this is part of the ordering profile for the business package of the 3-series, 5-series, 7-series and the X-series.
- BMW rental cars from Hertz, Sixt etc. have usually badges. So beside some other rental car specialities like barcodes on the trunk, just one year validation of TV (periodical technical inspection by a technical surveyor) the badge is a typical sign that this is or was a former rental/fleet car. For me it looks always strange to see some nice equipped BMWs rental cars in Germany with a 316d, 520d or X3 2.0 badge.
- BMWs own fleet or dealership cars have usually badges. My father own a fully equipped 330d touring (E46) with a badge. That car was formerly a car from BMW AG Munich.
- Privat costumers ordering a new BMW mostly order as well the de-badging option.
- De-badge after delivery is quite uncommon in Germany. Just if you buy a loaner or a previous fleet car and you prefer a clean look badges will be removed.
- As well there a few BMW owners who like to have fake or downsizing badges. Once I saw a E90 335d with a 318i badge.
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      10-27-2012, 10:56 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
The 3 IS track ready as delivered. But by that I mean it's wholly capable of being taken out on a track and driven hard, right out of the box. Air up the tires and go. Very few other cars on the market are designed to withstand this punishment. BMW always recognizes it's a possibility and accounts for it in the design.
I'm not convinced BMWs are so designed. The brakes quickly fade, hubs/bearings fail on tighter, demanding tracks, the engines get very hot, etc. They can be tracked, but do little better than other vehicles as far as basic mechanics. (This is not a criticism. BMW sedans are not race cars.)

I have driven many, and ridden with many students, in street cars on race tracks. Most cars do quite well, although there are a few with brakes that fade after a couple of laps. It's great fun to illustrate to students what a vehicle can do while driving an Explorer or a Subaru Forrester. An older Forrester does amazingly well in particular.
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      10-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
I'm not convinced BMWs are so designed. The brakes quickly fade, hubs/bearings fail on tighter, demanding tracks, the engines get very hot, etc. They can be tracked, but do little better than other vehicles as far as basic mechanics. (This is not a criticism. BMW sedans are not race cars.)

I have driven many, and ridden with many students, in street cars on race tracks. Most cars do quite well, although there are a few with brakes that fade after a couple of laps. It's great fun to illustrate to students what a vehicle can do while driving an Explorer or a Subaru Forrester. An older Forrester does amazingly well in particular.
I will not speak to track days as I have only done one event pre SC'er...

But...

My E36/7 has it's original brakes now at 77k and the original clutch which has yet to slip at about 500hp at the crank(thanks to the low tq) and still has the original head gasket(fingers crossed).

I would say that indicates fairly robust components. My '09 VW CC, the clutch began slipping from stage 1 software right off the bat.
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      10-27-2012, 11:30 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
My E36/7 has it's original brakes now at 77k and the original clutch which has yet to slip at about 500hp at the crank(thanks to the low tq) and still has the original head gasket(fingers crossed).
Actually, both of these point more to good driving technique than unusually high quality components. You drive while listening to the car with your hands and feet.

It is easy to go through a set or two of pads on a track weekend. They are disposable components (as are tires and rotors). However, a clutch should last for well over 100,000 driven well.

My first car, a Toyota Celica GT, had its original clutch at 250,000+ miles when I sold it. My current utility car, a 1998 Subaru Forester has 140,000 miles, original clutch and brakes (pads still have 30% left).

I wouldn't call out either as "track ready" however.
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      10-27-2012, 12:57 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Actually, both of these point more to good driving technique than unusually high quality components. You drive while listening to the car with your hands and feet.

It is easy to go through a set or two of pads on a track weekend. They are disposable components (as are tires and rotors). However, a clutch should last for well over 100,000 driven well.

My first car, a Toyota Celica GT, had its original clutch at 250,000+ miles when I sold it. My current utility car, a 1998 Subaru Forester has 140,000 miles, original clutch and brakes (pads still have 30% left).

I wouldn't call out either as "track ready" however.
True...
But a oem clutch is rated to hold only so much power. I doubled the power and its yet to slip. Fact is that indicates it was over built. I also give it plenty of wot shifts at redline.
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      10-27-2012, 05:32 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
But a oem clutch is rated to hold only so much power. I doubled the power and its yet to slip.
If I read your above post correctly however, you added a lot of HP but there is low torque. Torque spins clutches, not HP.

I have not yet run into an OEM clutch that cannot handle a lot of engine mods: cam, rockers, headers, etc. There are a lot of perfectly happy Mustangs and F-bodys running around with blowers and stock clutches.

BMWs are nicely put together, but there is not anything about them stock that makes them particularly track worthy.
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      10-27-2012, 06:01 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
If I read your above post correctly however, you added a lot of HP but there is low torque. Torque spins clutches, not HP.

I have not yet run into an OEM clutch that cannot handle a lot of engine mods: cam, rockers, headers, etc. There are a lot of perfectly happy Mustangs and F-bodys running around with blowers and stock clutches.

BMWs are nicely put together, but there is not anything about them stock that makes them particularly track worthy.
Yes, not a lot of tq compared to a turbo, but still an increase of 100ftlbs to the wheels. That is a lot over the original output for a stock clutch to handle.

Like I said, my APR tune+ full intake which nets about a 65lbs tq increase to the wheels on the CC had it slipping quite badly.
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      10-28-2012, 11:39 AM   #173
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Odd that the CC clutch would slip this easily. It must have been frustrating. You are clearly nice to clutches so it was not earlier abuse that caused a problem.
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      10-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #174
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I hate this thread!!
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      10-28-2012, 11:54 AM   #175
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Quote:
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Odd that the CC clutch would slip this easily. It must have been frustrating. You are clearly nice to clutches so it was not earlier abuse that caused a problem.
It was a downer.

When I sold it, taking off the intake and the clutch held the power. Then i put the stock profile on so if the new owner wanted more power he would contend with the clutch issue.
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'98 Dinan/RMS stage 2+(VAC cams, CES Cutring etc)
'15 Buick Regal "T"(wife)
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      10-28-2012, 09:16 PM   #176
boltjames
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Drives: 2013 BMW 328i Luxury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGuyadeen View Post
I hate this thread!!
Is your 335i from South Africa?

BJ
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