[anerbe]

As a long time BMW owner / enthusiast, I had to chime in on this thread.

My previous BMW was an N54 E90 335 6MT. Ever since my start into driving, I always saw BMW as the driver's car and Audi as the wannabe BMW. Sure, the looks of the B6/B7 were nice, but I never gave them consideration pas the appearance. Even the current A4/A5, I always thought they look nice, but never would consider them. However, I have to say there are 2 pieces of technology which completely changed my mind for the current gen Audi products.

I think this thread has both sides covered in terms of BMW vs Audi. I don't like the 2.0T offerings of Audi, and I don't find the 3.0T options of BMW in this segment leaps and bounds better than the previous vehicles. This is how I see the rankings:

A4/A5 < 3/428 < 3/435 < S4/S5

From my recent search for my next company car, I checked out both Sport Line / M-Sport F30 335's, and the F10 535 and 550 sport and M-Sport rear/XI. I really tried to get into a BMW. I still held onto my priorities of a great handling/driving car first, then the toys/gadgets second. I found the F30 to feel a bit disconnected and more floaty with me preferring the driving feel and interior material of my E90 335. The Xdrive vehicle was to be frank, boring (always have been IMO). The rwd car is still nice, but again, the overall driving felt less exciting than the E90.

The F30 feels less solid, less substantial in the interior. The 550 M-Sport I drove was really nice and fast, great interior, but the handling still felt like a huge boat at the limit. Besides M models, I feel the 5 series never felt as enjoyable as the E39's.

Disappointed, I started looking into the E90 335's and M3's. However, I felt compelled to get something newer and a bit larger. Both cars were showing their age. What the hell, lets try an S4 - what is this rear sport differential thingy? The car will probably still be an understeering pig, but what's with all the positive reviews and online comparison's putting the S4 on top?

Here are my reasons for finally getting into a B8.5 S4.

- Sport Rear Diff. This option alone transforms the car from a more powerful A4 to a 4 wheel drive oversteering joyride. This technology gets the high skidpad numbers. This allows you to overcome the initial nasty understeer by adding throttle early and rotating the car. There is a learning curve to adjust your driving style from a neutral chassis like an F30, but the feeling of ultimate cornering grip on throttle is fantastic.

- DSG / S-Tronic: Being a huge "save the manuals" activist, this was a toss up. After a lot of seat time with dual clutch transmissions, I still prefer manuals, but if I had to go automatic (wife had back surgery recently, so manuals are out of question for a few years), I still prefer the dual clutch to the nice new automatics.

- Interior material / finish: The interior of the S4 seems a bit more special than the F30 335. Nappa / Alcantara seating vs. Dakota, softer touch / tactile door panels, seemingly thicker insulation / doors, etc...Driving many F30's back to back with my E90, I always felt that apart from the updated design and more gadgets, the E90 seemed more substantial in interior quality than the F30.

Will I be back into a BMW in a few years? Good chance, but understand that as BMW has shifted more into technology and economy, Audi has shifted much more into driving dynamics and design.

To summarize, I agree with the majority of the people on this thread. 328/428 I prefer to the current A4/A5. However, the Sport Diff and DSG (like previously mentioned) lured me away from an E90 M3. It will take a F80 M3 to pull me away from this car now.

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by Luongo

I had an A5 2.0T MT for 4 years as a daily driver and just traded it in for a 428i MT.
BMW is superior in every possible way except maybe wet traction. Even the interior is much nicer in BMW, in my opinion.

My 428i engine sounds much nicer and pulls harder from lower RPM all the way to the redline. A5 felt out of steam by about 5,000 rpm and didn't sound nearly as nice. When steering into sharp corners, my BMW handles much better. Audi is not even in the same league.

My old car - 2011 A5 2.0T


My new car - 2014 428i

Not a fan of bmws new F series designs but when you put those side by side, the Audi looks dated

[syuan92]

Originally Posted by anerbe

As a long time BMW owner / enthusiast, I had to chime in on this thread.

My previous BMW was an N54 E90 335 6MT. Ever since my start into driving, I always saw BMW as the driver's car and Audi as the wannabe BMW. Sure, the looks of the B6/B7 were nice, but I never gave them consideration pas the appearance. Even the current A4/A5, I always thought they look nice, but never would consider them. However, I have to say there are 2 pieces of technology which completely changed my mind for the current gen Audi products.

I think this thread has both sides covered in terms of BMW vs Audi. I don't like the 2.0T offerings of Audi, and I don't find the 3.0T options of BMW in this segment leaps and bounds better than the previous vehicles. This is how I see the rankings:

A4/A5 < 3/428 < 3/435 < S4/S5

From my recent search for my next company car, I checked out both Sport Line / M-Sport F30 335's, and the F10 535 and 550 sport and M-Sport rear/XI. I really tried to get into a BMW. I still held onto my priorities of a great handling/driving car first, then the toys/gadgets second. I found the F30 to feel a bit disconnected and more floaty with me preferring the driving feel and interior material of my E90 335. The Xdrive vehicle was to be frank, boring (always have been IMO). The rwd car is still nice, but again, the overall driving felt less exciting than the E90.

The F30 feels less solid, less substantial in the interior. The 550 M-Sport I drove was really nice and fast, great interior, but the handling still felt like a huge boat at the limit. Besides M models, I feel the 5 series never felt as enjoyable as the E39's.

Disappointed, I started looking into the E90 335's and M3's. However, I felt compelled to get something newer and a bit larger. Both cars were showing their age. What the hell, lets try an S4 - what is this rear sport differential thingy? The car will probably still be an understeering pig, but what's with all the positive reviews and online comparison's putting the S4 on top?

Here are my reasons for finally getting into a B8.5 S4.

- Sport Rear Diff. This option alone transforms the car from a more powerful A4 to a 4 wheel drive oversteering joyride. This technology gets the high skidpad numbers. This allows you to overcome the initial nasty understeer by adding throttle early and rotating the car. There is a learning curve to adjust your driving style from a neutral chassis like an F30, but the feeling of ultimate cornering grip on throttle is fantastic.

- DSG / S-Tronic: Being a huge "save the manuals" activist, this was a toss up. After a lot of seat time with dual clutch transmissions, I still prefer manuals, but if I had to go automatic (wife had back surgery recently, so manuals are out of question for a few years), I still prefer the dual clutch to the nice new automatics.

- Interior material / finish: The interior of the S4 seems a bit more special than the F30 335. Nappa / Alcantara seating vs. Dakota, softer touch / tactile door panels, seemingly thicker insulation / doors, etc...Driving many F30's back to back with my E90, I always felt that apart from the updated design and more gadgets, the E90 seemed more substantial in interior quality than the F30.

Will I be back into a BMW in a few years? Good chance, but understand that as BMW has shifted more into technology and economy, Audi has shifted much more into driving dynamics and design.

To summarize, I agree with the majority of the people on this thread. 328/428 I prefer to the current A4/A5. However, the Sport Diff and DSG (like previously mentioned) lured me away from an E90 M3. It will take a F80 M3 to pull me away from this car now.

What about a F30 or F32 with the M-Performance LSD?

[JN1]

I think the only Audi I would even consider would be S3/S5 RS3/RS5

[anerbe]

Originally Posted by syuan92

What about a F30 or F32 with the M-Performance LSD?

Good question - I was unable to try one with a M-Performance differential. I asked about it quickly at the dealer, and they said 1. It's a dealer fitted option, and no vehicles were on the lot to try out and 2. They are only available for automatic 335's.

Therefore, I was unable to compare a M-LSD F30 vs an S4 - perhaps it would have closed the gap a bit more, but the new Sports diff blows me away. Power distribution is not traction based alone, but also steering / yaw angle based. Power can be distributed to almost 100% on one side, opposed to the 30% for the BMW M-Diff.

At the moment, I don't see a BMW 4 door product of this size that has the same dynamic abilities as the S4 w/ the sports diff. If the S4 didn't have a sports diff, I would be in a 335 right now. The effect is that good.

For those who haven't tried one out yet, I highly recommend it.

[Christos]

Originally Posted by anerbe

As a long time BMW owner / enthusiast, I had to chime in on this thread.

My previous BMW was an N54 E90 335 6MT. Ever since my start into driving, I always saw BMW as the driver's car and Audi as the wannabe BMW. Sure, the looks of the B6/B7 were nice, but I never gave them consideration pas the appearance. Even the current A4/A5, I always thought they look nice, but never would consider them. However, I have to say there are 2 pieces of technology which completely changed my mind for the current gen Audi products.

I think this thread has both sides covered in terms of BMW vs Audi. I don't like the 2.0T offerings of Audi, and I don't find the 3.0T options of BMW in this segment leaps and bounds better than the previous vehicles. This is how I see the rankings:

A4/A5 < 3/428 < 3/435 < S4/S5

From my recent search for my next company car, I checked out both Sport Line / M-Sport F30 335's, and the F10 535 and 550 sport and M-Sport rear/XI. I really tried to get into a BMW. I still held onto my priorities of a great handling/driving car first, then the toys/gadgets second. I found the F30 to feel a bit disconnected and more floaty with me preferring the driving feel and interior material of my E90 335. The Xdrive vehicle was to be frank, boring (always have been IMO). The rwd car is still nice, but again, the overall driving felt less exciting than the E90.

The F30 feels less solid, less substantial in the interior. The 550 M-Sport I drove was really nice and fast, great interior, but the handling still felt like a huge boat at the limit. Besides M models, I feel the 5 series never felt as enjoyable as the E39's.

Disappointed, I started looking into the E90 335's and M3's. However, I felt compelled to get something newer and a bit larger. Both cars were showing their age. What the hell, lets try an S4 - what is this rear sport differential thingy? The car will probably still be an understeering pig, but what's with all the positive reviews and online comparison's putting the S4 on top?

Here are my reasons for finally getting into a B8.5 S4.

- Sport Rear Diff. This option alone transforms the car from a more powerful A4 to a 4 wheel drive oversteering joyride. This technology gets the high skidpad numbers. This allows you to overcome the initial nasty understeer by adding throttle early and rotating the car. There is a learning curve to adjust your driving style from a neutral chassis like an F30, but the feeling of ultimate cornering grip on throttle is fantastic.

- DSG / S-Tronic: Being a huge "save the manuals" activist, this was a toss up. After a lot of seat time with dual clutch transmissions, I still prefer manuals, but if I had to go automatic (wife had back surgery recently, so manuals are out of question for a few years), I still prefer the dual clutch to the nice new automatics.

- Interior material / finish: The interior of the S4 seems a bit more special than the F30 335. Nappa / Alcantara seating vs. Dakota, softer touch / tactile door panels, seemingly thicker insulation / doors, etc...Driving many F30's back to back with my E90, I always felt that apart from the updated design and more gadgets, the E90 seemed more substantial in interior quality than the F30.

Will I be back into a BMW in a few years? Good chance, but understand that as BMW has shifted more into technology and economy, Audi has shifted much more into driving dynamics and design.

To summarize, I agree with the majority of the people on this thread. 328/428 I prefer to the current A4/A5. However, the Sport Diff and DSG (like previously mentioned) lured me away from an E90 M3. It will take a F80 M3 to pull me away from this car now.

I do agree with your sport diff comments, it really improves the handling and is a wonderful piece of technology. My 1996 318ti had it also. I really did like my S4, however I traded my S4 in for a 428i and absolutely love it. The 428i is so much more fun to drive is many ways. It's lighter, better balanced, flatter in corners, engine/exhaust sounds better, can wind out the motor more often (without going 150 mph) compliant ride, and great mpg.

[Pro]

[anerbe]

Originally Posted by Christos

I do agree with your sport diff comments, it really improves the handling and is a wonderful piece of technology. My 1996 318ti had it also. I really did like my S4, however I traded my S4 in for a 428i and absolutely love it. The 428i is so much more fun to drive is many ways. It's lighter, better balanced, flatter in corners, engine/exhaust sounds better, can wind out the motor more often (without going 150 mph) compliant ride, and great mpg.

I agree the dynamics/handling feel and weighting of the 328/428 non-xi is really nice (better than the 335) but unfortunately, I also need the speed and actual performance numbers. Wish I didn't, as it would be cheaper / safer. If the industry didn't get so spoiled with the FI engines, I would still find the e46 330zhp and the e90 330i absolute gems in dynamics apart from their lack of power.

[Mudnut]

This is an old thread, but I just went through this process. I live in Australia, and have a teenage son that is learning to drive soon. My car I traded in was a 2008 John Cooper Works MINI, which was a go cart on steroids. The problem arises as my son can't drive it, as it was a pre 2010 turbo car. This is banned for learners, and probationary drivers.
The laws have changed to allow turbo cars built after 2010 but limited to a power to weight ratio. 135kw per metric ton. This was to allow cars to use turbos to improve efficiency, not just increase power and speed.
I drove an Audi A5 2.0T which met that criteria. The more powerful ones were ruled out, due to the limiting laws. It was a nice car, but to me the steering felt vague, and it was hampered by turbo lag. It was not one that I felt compelled to purchase. I would seriously consider a more powerful version and Quatro in the future, as I really like the styling of the Audi cars. My dream would be a R8, but I need to win lotto first!
Moving over to BMW, which is a brand I have had 4 previous models (318i, 528i, E53 X5 and a current 2015 F15 X5) for my wife. I was looking at a 228i, when the dealer let me take my 2015 (Nov) 330i LCI home for the night. It was their demo / loaner car. I was so impressed with the tech on this vehicle, that I signed the contract the next morning.
People complain about the dated interior of the BMW's, but I find it very compelling. I like how the dash is broken up into different layers, and the nav-idrive screen is below the top of the dash, and recessed into a kind of shelf.
The Audi's and Mercedes have a large dash that just seems too large for my liking.
The smooth delivery of power of the 330i, with minimal turbo lag in Comfort, and none in Sport, is intoxicating.
The steering seems perfectly balanced. Not as precise as the MINI's but very predictable. Much sharper than the Audi's.
The transmission of the BMW just seems a level above the one in the Audi. It is the first automatic transmission car I have purchased for myself in 34 years of driving.
Lastly, RWD vs FWD. After driving the MINI for 4 years, as my main drive, I love the feel of driving a rear wheel drive car again.

A5 or other Audi in the future? Maybe a S4, or more powerful version when I am not hampered by Learner Drivers, or P platers using or wanting to use my car. Might look at an M version of the BMW then also, or even AMG Mercedes.

Long post, but these are my views.

Cheers,

Ken

[newoldbeemer]

I don't get the appeal of A4/S4A5/S5. I have driven them several times.

The thing I like about BMWs is the steering precision and in-control feeling (deceptive or not) when turning and changing lines. That's not there in the Audis. They feel heavy around corners. I am talking about subjective feel, not hard fact. Maybe the Audis can take the turns quicker and still hold the line, I don't know because I didn't measure anything even when I drove them back to back. But they give that same feeling that heavy muscle cars give around corners. Maybe I should trust the system and go even faster than I did? I don't know. But BMWs have that natural feeling.

Explain to me the Audi appeal, I don't get it. Other than BMWs, only the G37 (to some extent) and the Mini Cooper S had that turnin feel I'm talking about.

[eluded]

#SaveTheManuals

[440xiGCMsport]

Originally Posted by newoldbeemer

I don't get the appeal of A4/S4A5/S5. I have driven them several times.

The thing I like about BMWs is the steering precision and in-control feeling (deceptive or not) when turning and changing lines. That's not there in the Audis. They feel heavy around corners. I am talking about subjective feel, not hard fact. Maybe the Audis can take the turns quicker and still hold the line, I don't know because I didn't measure anything even when I drove them back to back. But they give that same feeling that heavy muscle cars give around corners. Maybe I should trust the system and go even faster than I did? I don't know. But BMWs have that natural feeling.

Explain to me the Audi appeal, I don't get it. Other than BMWs, only the G37 (to some extent) and the Mini Cooper S had that turnin feel I'm talking about.

First don't compare any car to the e series BMW. The current F30 while a nice car doesn't feel anything like the e series BMW's steering feel and no Audi will even come close to the E series steering feel.
Second I can honestly say that the S4 with the sport diff and driven properly feels or drives as nice as the current F series BMW.
The thing that most BMW drivers who go test drive an Audi will tell you there is understeer that isn't really in the BMW's and that is somewhat true. When the S4 goes into the corner it will have some initial understeer if you go in real hard. Then the sport diff will take over and eliminate much of the understeer. The problem is that most BMW drivers who aren't use to the understeer will back off the throttle and this actually doesn't really help or it really isn't how an Audi should be driven. To drive it properly it is slower in and mash on the gas and let the diff and AWD do it's thing. If you go a little too hot into the corner than don't let off the gas very very slightly and let the sport diff do it's thing. The thing with the sport diff it allows you to POWER through the turn hence allowing you to complete the turn quicker.
You are completely correct in saying that you should trust the system and let it do it's thing but it isn't something you can just do on a test drive.
I completely enjoyed my experience with the Audi S4 but Audi customer service really stink.

[nicknaz]

There was a BMW driving event at my local dealership in 2014, and they brought a 435xi with 20s and an S5 with 19" square setup of 255 summer tires tires and the torque vectoring rear LSD

I liked the S5 better than the 435 and told the event personnel

In 2015 they brought an A5 2.0T with the narrower all season tires. (i.e. someone smartened up!)

If the S4 leased close to the 335 it would have been a tough call, but the cost gap made the 335 an easy choice

[jmg]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

There was a BMW driving event at my local dealership in 2014, and they brought a 435xi with 20s and an S5 with 19" square setup of 255 summer tires tires and the torque vectoring rear LSD

I liked the S5 better than the 435 and told the event personnel

In 2015 they brought an A5 2.0T with the narrower all season tires. (i.e. someone smartened up!)

If the S4 leased close to the 335 it would have been a tough call, but the cost gap made the 335 an easy choice

Former S4 owner chiming in. The S4 is designed and marketed to fill the gap between the M3 and the 335i. If the S4/S5 with the bells and whistles is outperforming the 335i then it should be of no surprise. It's priced to do so.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jmg

Former S4 owner chiming in. The S4 is designed and marketed to fill the gap between the M3 and the 335i. If the S4/S5 with the bells and whistles is outperforming the 335i then it should be of no surprise. It's priced to do so.

In that particular case, I think the spec of the cars was not apples to apples. 35i xdrive with 20s isn't how I would have configured the BMW tester. It should have been RWD with 18" summer tires

My wife and I both drove the S4 before we got her 335 and we weren't completely sold on the S4, and the cost put us over the edge.

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by Skhmund

Not a fan of bmws new F series designs

Why not? Is the F32 F30 F36 too homely compared to the E9x?

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by Vegetable

Why not? Is the F32 F30 F36 too homely compared to the E9x?

Did not like it on initial impression, but as any design, it grew on me. Would I buy one now? No, the competition offers some nice alternatives

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Skhmund

Did not like it on initial impression, but as any design, it grew on me. Would I buy one now? No, the competition is offers some nice alternatives

Like what?

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by jmg

Like what?

The new C class is beautiful and the Infiniti Q50 with the new TT V6 caught my eye.

[DJ Rocc]

Wouldn't trade my 4 for any other. It suits me just fine right now!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Skhmund

The new C class is beautiful and the Infiniti Q50 with the new TT V6 caught my eye.

I test drove the C450 AMG before I purchased the 340i. Definitely a fast car, but I didn't like sitting in it. The interior didn't speak to me. It was purely subjective.
I didn't drive the Q50 because I would never buy a Nissan. The TT is nice, but not my style.

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by Skhmund

The new C class is beautiful and the Infiniti Q50 with the new TT V6 caught my eye.

Does Infiniti offer the old hydraulic steering as an option? A long time back when they were launching the Q50, I read some article saying they're gonna do that but I haven't seen anything about that after. I wonder if they plan to do that with the new 400hp version. If they do offer it with the 400hp version, I know what car I'm getting .