12-29-2012, 06:45 PM | #45 | ||
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Buddy, get your xDrive and enjoy already OK...? You'll love it. |
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12-29-2012, 07:06 PM | #46 | |
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Hopefully when/if I do end up with an AWD car, I'm not as sensitive as some.
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12-29-2012, 08:01 PM | #48 | |
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Agreed. Ron is a bit touchy today. BTW, I personally didn't take any of this as bashing. Nothing wrong with having a little lively debate. Few issues have the tendency to polarize BMW drivers so quickly. xDrive VS RWD. 3xx VS 328 VS 335. Turbo VS NA. MT and Auto. We all drive. The same. Car! Hopefully we don't see any Leather VS Leatherette threads soon! Last edited by Falafel Combo; 12-30-2012 at 06:35 AM.. |
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12-30-2012, 09:50 AM | #49 | |||
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It is simply a matter of physics. If 40% of the available front wheel traction is used to accelerate, this is 40% less available to steer the car. The more throttle is applied in an AWD (or front wheel drive) the less the car can turn. More weight additionally decreases cornering ability; a lighter car corners faster. Quote:
The only circumstance when AWD can put down more power is when the rear wheels of RWD have insufficient traction and the front wheels have additional traction available not already being used to corner (see above). At the limits, an AWD car must brake harder prior to entering a turn as it cannot corner as quickly. Many drivers trail brake AWD to enable quicker turn-in with the weight transferred onto the front wheels as this increase front tire grip. The driver than must wait before adding throttle until the car is more straightened out. Remember, adding throttle decreases AWD cornering. Understeer is comfortable for a street driver however. To recover, all he need do is lift the throttle. Quote:
300 pounds is a tremendous amount of additional weight when it comes to performance. This is approaching a ten percent increase and roughly equivalent to losing 30 horsepower. As to whether a driver will notice the weight, many will. Consider how many notice the ~100 pound difference of the 328 and its affect on handling. The upside of xDrive is its ability to move forward in slippery conditions. Given equivalent tires, an AWD easily out accelerates a RWD in snow, even more so if there is a hill to climb. This can be wonderful. Instead of thinking as xDrive as compromised in handling, think of RWD as compromised in straight line acceleration. Both are great choices, with advantages to each. |
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12-30-2012, 11:06 AM | #51 | |
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AWD simply have a advantage in turns, thats why most rally cars are AWD. Drifting thru a turn might look cool but losing traction in any form will not help accelaration. Last edited by The X Men; 12-30-2012 at 11:11 AM.. |
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12-30-2012, 06:25 PM | #53 | ||
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This is not how it works. Every tire has X amount of traction available to turn, accelerate or stop. Whatever percentage is used to perform one task is not available to use the others. In a front wheel drive car, any traction used for acceleration is unavailable for steering. Thus, a front wheel drive car cannot turn as well when it is accelerating; it is already using a portion of its traction to accelerate and cannot use it to turn. Quote:
Unlike in road racing were RWD rules and the cars turn as late as possible, rally cars complete their turns well prior to the apex of the corner. In fact, rally cars countersteer after loading the front by braking (weight transfers to the front, increasing grip and lessening the car's tendency to understeer) and sliding the rear end out to set up the earliest possible straight line out of the corner so they can get back on the throttle. The pendulum turn is the standard rally car turn. It you watch a rally car, it approaches a corner from the inside of the corner, opposite of roadracing. It turns away from the corner and then quickly turns into the corner to pendulum the rear end around. The driver then countersteers. This is what rotates a rally car around the corner. It is sliding sideways. This is the quickest technique for this form of racing. It does not create multiple G's of cornering force however. It is interesting that marketing has convinced so many that AWD handles better when the reality is otherwise. A couple of performance driving courses will easily resolve this lack of understanding. |
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12-30-2012, 06:56 PM | #54 | |
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The first thing you learn when you begin to get serious about track time/racing is the way braking, acceleration and turning all interact together with the tire. Hence why beginners do not brake and turn at the same time because the car can't do both efficiently. No different than acceleration and turning. Tires like to deal with force in one direction at a time... i.e. braking OR acceleration OR turning. Trying to do more than one thing with the tire at the same time results in poor performance of each. P.S. to the sensitive people... this is not a comment about xDrive, it is a comment about basic traction principles. This is not meant to offend, bash or in any way put down AWD cars.
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12-30-2012, 08:19 PM | #55 |
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Well, I have 2012 335i -- without xDrive -- and it is amazing in the snow. Not to mention, my new Blizzak LM-60 winter tires are the keys to winter driving success.
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12-30-2012, 10:56 PM | #56 |
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Ever since I've joined the forum 3+ years, the heated arguments about x-drive vs. RWD haven't stopped.
What's funny is those who think that their choice of car is superior in every circumstance. Thankfully, there are those that take the time to offer correct and balanced information for those that are (or were, like me) wondering.
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12-31-2012, 01:56 AM | #57 |
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What a silly thread, I just don't understand some of the Xi owners arguments. No one has shown any documented proof that in BMW sedans, coupes, etc the Xi version offers more performance in non-slippery situations. I get that is a good option for all weather capability, but there is nothing that says it improves overall performance in the F30. You cannot use other manufactures cars with AWD as an an example for your justification, because that is their "thing". AWD is not BMW's "thing", but RWD is.
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12-31-2012, 06:44 AM | #58 |
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I personally paid extra for the xDrive, knowing that I was buying a compromise.
My opinion has never been that xDrive is 'a better performing car', but only that xDrive+all seasons performs better than RWD+Snow in snow/wet/slippery conditions. It will get you out of corners quicker in wet conditions. It will accelerate faster off the line in dry conditions, and if it does not, it sure as heck feels like it. It will be more balanced, and significantly decrease the incidences of the car fishtailing or loosing traction in snow/ice conditions. It will get you up a slippery/snowy hill without breaking a sweat. In every other imaginable situation, it's a compromise. Compromise to ride height, weight, weight distribution, sport suspension, gas mileage, ... Just my opinion and observations from personal experiences. And yes, I personally agree these threads are silly, but they make for good reads. I'm entertained. |
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12-31-2012, 08:23 AM | #59 | |
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One of the performance advantages of AWD is launching. AWD is what let me get awesome 60 foot/1/4 mile times running all-season tires with my Evo VIII. While the guy next to me needed super sticky performance tires in his RWD car. It was nice being able to drive to the track and back home with no tire modifications. |
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12-31-2012, 08:31 AM | #60 |
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xDrive vs RWD - I now realize and see the difference more clearly. I use to have an e90 335xi and now I have an f30 335i. Both had/have snow tires, and I've finally had big enough dumps to compare.
After a week of off an on snow, and snow up to or past the center caps of my wheels in a single dump, I have to say this is what I miss form the XI/xDrive:
Now granted, sometimes the RWD and XI would behave similarly - for example if the entire section of road was equally slippery due to black ice or mash potato snow. But with the xi/xDrive, I'd probably feel more confident in these conditions. RWD in snow = I can get by. XI/xDrive in snow = unstoppable. BTW, I don't regret my RWD. The point of my post is to inform others, so they make an informed decision that they can live with. Whether it is driving feel or some number/measurable specification, know what you want and what you are gaining and giving up. After that..... ENJOY IT
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12-31-2012, 08:54 AM | #61 |
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Oh I just remembered some guys on here said the xDrive only helps when gas is applied, that's false.
xDrive relies on the ABS and DSC to transfer up to 100% power to the front or rear axle. The gas has nothing to do with this process. |
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12-31-2012, 09:08 AM | #62 | |
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If your RWD is drifting thru a turn, you are slipping, therefore, you just agree that AWD will go thru a turn faster. |
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12-31-2012, 09:44 AM | #63 | ||
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From BMW's website... Quote:
RWD cars also have DSC too that works similarly with the exception it doesn't transfer "power" to the front axel. I'm not sure if this is clear yet but hopefully it is now. Braking and turning are the same for xDrive and RWD cars unless gas is being applied... then xDrive is different. P.S. I said I wasn't going to do this anymore but couldn't help myself
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12-31-2012, 09:46 AM | #64 |
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This thread was a ridiculous read. Get whatever you want to spend your hard earned money on and be happy with it.
I would like to add something that has not been mentioned so far: tan leather is soooooo much worse for denim wearers. If you got tan leather, you can't wear jeans. |
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12-31-2012, 09:49 AM | #65 | |
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12-31-2012, 09:51 AM | #66 | |
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