06-03-2014, 02:46 PM | #1 |
Major General
890
Rep 7,047
Posts |
AT/Rough Manaul Mode shifts
I've got a 2013 335i Msport w/sport AT.
Around the 1st or 2nd month after getting my 3 I have had a problem with the shift quality with my AT. The worst is when I am in "sport" driver mode and I move the lever over to manual mode. The first 2 shifts feel awful. Sometimes the shift jerks my head back, other times there is a shift delay with a slight power power and I can feel the car and my body move slightly forward and then WHAM it shifts in a jerk. It's not an exaggerated motion, I don't mean it's as bad as it sounds, it's just that it is NOT smooth at all. Shifts feel nothing as smooth as when it's in auto mode. This happens whether I shift around 2k rpm or higher, and often it's worse when I accel slowly but wind the engine out to around 4k rpm then shift. If I'm hammering the throttle WFO the shifts are very quick and rapid fire so I never feel an abruptness. But that's not how one drives in manual mode all the time. Downshifts are just as bad starting from 4 to 3, and the worst from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1. It does not feel like the shifts are rev matched at all, and they should be as that it how ZF designed it to work. Interestingly, if I'm in "sport +" driver mode the shifts feel better. I've experimented plenty to make sure this is not in my head. It's not. It's real, and I hate it. I hate it to the point that I don't like driving the car as much anymore. Auto mode is fine, but the reason I switch from MT to this AT is because of how great it works in every other 3 series except mine. I've had it in to service a few times and have asked them to check the issue with the trans, but it always comes back with "No problem found", which is NOT true. Trans works, it just doesn't work as it should in a quality sense. The times I've had my 3 in for service I get a loaner 3 every time, and in every one I've driven I test the manual mode and it's CLEARLY smoother and direct compared to mine. My AT in manual mode feels like an old torque converter AT where you shift through 1- 2 -3 then D, it sucks that bad. In full auto mode the shifts are great, like butter. In full auto sport mode the shifts are great as well, quick, and smooth. Anyone else with this issue? I'm taking in to service next Tuesday so they can correct the computer service interval. Last oil service, a couple or 3 months ago, the tech didn't reset the interval properly. It reads next service at "12/2000" WAY off. If anyone is experiencing odd shifts, abrupt, hesitant, lack of rev matching on down shifts, please post. I'd like to know if others have this issue or if it's just my trans and I'm the lucky winner of oddball ZF sport AT that lacks proper function and shift quality. I Love the trans when it works as designed, it just doesn't work correctly in my 335i. I HATE this trans in my 335i! I hate it so much that I'm seriously thinking of trading my lease in a year early and getting an M235i and going back to MANUAL trans. |
06-03-2014, 04:21 PM | #3 |
Captain
55
Rep 681
Posts |
In the Technical section of N55 you will find a little issue that affects my sport AT too! But I didn't experienced your problem.
Anyway I think too that it would be a software problem, so it could be solved with an update, maybe |
Appreciate
0
|
06-03-2014, 04:50 PM | #4 |
Brigadier General
3277
Rep 3,255
Posts |
What you are describing seems normal to me. In fact, I paid extra for the fast shifts via the Sport Auto option.
My car does the exact same thing. The manual shifts in sport mode are very quick and you definitely feel the punch. It can be exaggerated at partial throttle as the transmission still then attempts to shift as fast as possible. Aside from rev matching downshifts, I'm pretty sure your description is normal. The only way I get the transmission to shift smoothly is leave it comfort, not putting the transmission in D/S, then using the shift paddles. Downside, is that the car will revert back to auto after a few seconds. |
Appreciate
0
|
06-03-2014, 09:30 PM | #5 | |
Major General
890
Rep 7,047
Posts |
Quote:
This happens much more so at part throttle. As you and I both know that whatever problem there is can be exaggerated at part throttle. With big throttle openings or WFO the trans shifts very fast and very smooth. The shift to the next higher gear is fast and very direct, no slack. It's just like auto mode but faster. Fast shifts are not the problem. This problem happens when in comfort mode too. But there is more "slip" in comfort mode so the odd shift is softened. The 1 to 2 shift sometimes has a slight delay and then jerks forward. 2 to 3 does it too. Some times it will start the shift, but then there is a slight slip, then bang it shifts. It's just NOT smooth when the car and your head bob a bit forward and then back. In an MT that's a bad shift. Plus, I have not experienced this in any other F30 with AT, so that's the reference. I know this trans is not designed to shift they way mine does. It might be a software issue, but it could be mechanical. No way to tell until the tech's actually look into it. I know I've had a software update or two, but this could be a sub routine in the software that maybe needs extra attention if it's software related. On my next visit I'm going to insist that the tech and I drive my car and then drive a new F30 to compare them. Last time the tech drove with me and he could feel what I was talking about, but sort hmmm'd a hawww'd as he didn't know the answer. He said he would check it out and then my repair receipt had "no problem found". Again, yes the trans works. It shifts gears. It's the quality of the shifts in manual mode that is the problem. If I leave it in full auto mode, then it shifts fine in any driver mode comfort, sport, and sport+. Even in DS mode, which is also an auto mode, the shifts are fast AND smooth. It's just in manual mode where the problem creeps in. The lack of smooth rev match is, to me, a clear indication that there is a problem. Maybe it's a calibration problem of the rev-match routine, as it plays a part in down and up shifts as the engine rpm has to match the trans speed for smooth shifts. In an MT we do the same thing, or should, if we want smooth shifts. But I'm just speculating and guessing. I want the "techs" to figure out the "why". Last edited by RPM90; 06-03-2014 at 09:38 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-03-2014, 10:01 PM | #6 |
Brigadier General
3277
Rep 3,255
Posts |
Good luck. Without actually experiencing your car I guess it's hard to compare. I agree though, shift quality should be the same in DS and sport+ versus manual and sport+. Regardless hope it works out and wish I could offer more insight.
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 07:32 AM | #7 |
Second Lieutenant
11
Rep 201
Posts |
I also experience the bad or hard or abrupt shift feel as well, but mine occurs at higher gears above 6th.
Being my first paddle shifting car, I haven't been sure whether this is normal and due to the way I'm shifting or if there is a software issue with the rev matching under hard acceleration. Yes the shifts are very fast and crisp and instant, however, unlike the shifts from 1st to 5th which have a smooth feel, shifting to 7th and then 8th when accelerating hard results in that jerking push forward feeling, which is directly tied to the RPM change. I am waiting for my first oil change to bring up this question to service, and will see what they say. It's not a big issue, but because I only feel it in 7th and 8th I think it may not be normal. The only thing I question is my shifting habits. I tend to like to shift from 6th to 7th and then 8th obviously sooner and quicker than I do in the lower gears because of increasing speed and also to want to get RPMs down quickly into cruising feel. Could it be that because I am shifting quickly thru 6-8 and not letting RPMs raise high enough that the shift becomes more abrupt and jerky? It's hard to accelerate just as hard and wait for higher shift points once you get to 6th gear because you are already going close to triple digit speeds. Anyone feel the same? |
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 11:14 AM | #8 |
Private
16
Rep 94
Posts |
i have the same problem. mine is AT with no shift paddles. i went back to the dealer 1 month after leasing my car. He let me drive a new 335i with same specs as mine and it shift abruptly too.
The dealer says its normal behavior, but i am not satisfied.Stop & go city driving is especially awful. I also notice jerky downshifts when i try to come to a stop, When i brake i can actually feel each downshift because its not smooth like you said. i will take it back for service soon. i am hating this car now. its not enjoyable to drive |
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 11:23 AM | #9 | |
Second Lieutenant
11
Rep 201
Posts |
I think this is a different issue than what we are describing with the Sport A/T shifts.
I think you are talking about engine braking. I notice that this transmission does utilize more engine braking , much like you would in a manual transmission to save the wear in your brakes when slowing the car. You would feel this when slowing down, as the gears cycle down and utilize the gearing to help slow the car, as well as readying the engine for sudden acceleration needs by being in lower gear. Just a sportier feel, not something wrong with the car. You can probably negate this somewhat by driving in comfort mode, or full Sport A/T where u can control the shifting points yourself. Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 11:35 AM | #10 | |
Private
16
Rep 94
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 01:35 PM | #11 |
Second Lieutenant
11
Rep 201
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 08:57 PM | #12 | |
Major General
890
Rep 7,047
Posts |
Quote:
I was experimenting more today and same results. More evidence towards a software issue is that a few months ago I noticed that when I'm in sport+ and use manual trans mode the shifts are better. They feel proper, quick and direct no slop, no slack. The weirdness only happens in sport mode and comfort mode with manual trans mode. It's more pronounced in sport mode though. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 09:08 PM | #14 | |
Major General
890
Rep 7,047
Posts |
Quote:
Above 4th all of my shifts are smooth in both auto and manual mode. My trans is worst 1 to 2, and 2 to 3. 3 to 4 is sometimes ok sometimes not. Above that all is well. If any of you drive MT's, the first shifts feel like a bad manual trans shift where the throttle and clutch release are not matched, so there is "dip" as the clutch is disengaged and then a head jerk backward as the clutch grabs but the throttle/rpm isn't correct. And the downshifts at lower gears does it as well, like a bad rev match. It's very odd to feel that on a trans with a torque converter. Having more people with this problem is both good and bad. Bad because we are experiencing it. But good because the more of us that report it will eventually result in BMW taking a look into it. I know when I go in next week I'll get the, "It's normal" or "I don't feel a problem" report. I plan to ask for a BMW field rep at that point. I hate how this trans works so much that I don't enjoy driving the car as I want to. I drive it in auto mode way too much, but it's the only way to get consistently smooth shifts. That ain't right cause I paid extra to have the "sport AT" and I want it to work as it should, as I know it can cause I've driven a number of F30's with properly working 8sp AT's. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 09:11 PM | #15 | |
Major General
890
Rep 7,047
Posts |
Quote:
I've tried every configuration and combination I have with DHP and sport AT. As I mentioned, in sport+ driver mode with trans in manual the shifts are much better. The problem presents itself worst in sport mode and a bit less so in comfort. But I rarely drive in comfort mode, I hate it. ECO, I pretend it doesn't exist. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2014, 09:18 PM | #16 |
demoted
453
Rep 1,172
Posts |
I'll have to try it...
My habit is to switch to Sport + for any performance driving, largely because only then does my car feel as wired as my M3 DCT did. No issues there but full throttle upshifts in the lower gears are not as smooth as my DCT usually was, or as rough as it occasionally was.
P.S. I tried it today in Sport under full throttle and the first three shifts were quite smooth. I repeated the exercise three times and didn't have one rough shift. I was shifting at around 5800. Last edited by BimmerBoomer; 06-06-2014 at 01:15 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
06-07-2014, 11:55 AM | #17 |
Private First Class
10
Rep 156
Posts |
I have driven plenty of zf 8AT equipped cars, all shift slightly more abruptly in manual mode, not harsh but sometimes more noticeable in certain gears definately. Depends on throttle and engine revs as to how 'noticeable' it is. IMO higher torque cars seem to produce this more.
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-07-2014, 09:52 PM | #18 |
Captain
418
Rep 886
Posts |
I have a MY14 335i. I think I may know what you are talking about.
Try the following, when in manual mode: When taking off from a stop don't let the revs rise too far before shifting from 1st to 2nd. Go ahead and pull the upshift paddle to grab 2nd almost immediately after you gain some motion. I've found that this greatly smooths out the 1st to 2nd shift. Alternatively, if I let the engine rev to around 3K rpm and then grab 2nd, I find the shift a lot more hard/harsh. The N55 has a ton of low end grunt. I don't feel like I'm lugging the motor at all when I shift into 2nd quickly. |
Appreciate
0
|
06-09-2014, 06:50 AM | #21 | |
yep
111
Rep 604
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-09-2014, 11:12 AM | #22 | |
BMW, can I have some LSD please?
88
Rep 1,591
Posts |
Quote:
Engine braking is the whole raison d'etre for a 50/50 balanced car like the BMW. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|