[heli_ca]

Waited 3 months to get what I ordered.

So far new grilles, tint and rear spoiler, winter tires staggered, 3m rockgard.

I also bought a 2013 Audi S4 for my wife to compare to it.

Will let you know how each compares!

[bnekic]

^ looks great!

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by f30ca

Waited 3 months to get what I ordered.

So far new grilles, tint and rear spoiler, winter tires staggered, 3m rockgard.

I also bought a 2013 Audi S4 for my wife to compare to it.

Will let you know how each compares!

Nice garage, looking at the last picture, I would be nervous as heck that the kids next door might over shoot the basketball back board and land the ball on one of your cars
BTW, how does the X-drive compare to the quattro in the snow?

[heli_ca]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Nice garage, looking at the last picture, I would be nervous as heck that the kids next door might over shoot the basketball back board and land the ball on one of your cars
BTW, how does the X-drive compare to the quattro in the snow?

Some basic observations in the snow. The 335x in sport mode allows the rear end to drift out more and carving a smooth line with the rear out is possible under power and traction control does not cut in and jamb on the brakes in one of the wheels creating a sudden stop to the turn like it does in the S4. I tried the same thing in both cars in a large empty parking lot with hardpacked snow.

Ya I am very cognasant of that basket ball net during the summer.

[steveL77]

Originally Posted by f30ca

Waited 3 months to get what I ordered.

So far new grilles, tint and rear spoiler, winter tires staggered, 3m rockgard.

I also bought a 2013 Audi S4 for my wife to compare to it.

Will let you know how each compares!

How do the 19's with snow tires handle the snow? I've been contemplating running the Blizzak LM-60's on my stock 19's and getting aftermarket wheels for the summer.

[heli_ca]

Originally Posted by steveL77

How do the 19's with snow tires handle the snow? I've been contemplating running the Blizzak LM-60's on my stock 19's and getting aftermarket wheels for the summer.

It handles awesome throught the snow and when the roads are dry as well. I'm using the blizzaks as well from TR for about $1250
I'm running the stagger fit with same sizes as stock.

[shivaswrath]

RWD FTW!!

[heli_ca]

in your mind, not mine
great in snow and better to 60 anytime

[turantual]

I know AWD doesn't help with turns and stopping. Even so, my F30 stops and turns better in the snow than any other vehicle I've ever owned. Not sure why this is the case exactly. I presume it's because the car simply handles better in general than any of my previous vehicles. I even had a Toyota 4-Runner back in the 90's. I feel a lot more stable and secure in the snow in my F30. Of course, it can't do deep snow like the 4-Runner. But in the slick half-frozen snow+ice conditions I usually encounter in the Pacific Northwest, the 328i xDrive is outstanding. Incidentally, I mostly just keep the car in comfort mode when it's slippery out.

My lease is ending in 6 months and I'm thinking of getting a 440i xDrive (assume they've switched from 435 to 440 by then). Any thoughts on the winter driving performance with the bigger engine? Do you think a 440i in eco-pro might have comparable pedal feel to a 328i in comfort?

[Crashnbrn5]

you lifted this out of the dead, ehhh?

You can have 1000hp or 50hp, its all about control, responsibility, and excellent snow/winter tires. DO NOT go for the smaller engine if you care about life. If you care about fuel cost and you want to save $3000 over 3 years, then go for the smaller engine

Originally Posted by turantual

I know AWD doesn't help with turns and stopping. Even so, my F30 stops and turns better in the snow than any other vehicle I've ever owned. Not sure why this is the case exactly. I presume it's because the car simply handles better in general than any of my previous vehicles. I even had a Toyota 4-Runner back in the 90's. I feel a lot more stable and secure in the snow in my F30. Of course, it can't do deep snow like the 4-Runner. But in the slick half-frozen snow+ice conditions I usually encounter in the Pacific Northwest, the 328i xDrive is outstanding. Incidentally, I mostly just keep the car in comfort mode when it's slippery out.

My lease is ending in 6 months and I'm thinking of getting a 440i xDrive (assume they've switched from 435 to 440 by then). Any thoughts on the winter driving performance with the bigger engine? Do you think a 440i in eco-pro might have comparable pedal feel to a 328i in comfort?

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by f30ca

It handles awesome throught the snow and when the roads are dry as well. I'm using the blizzaks as well from TR for about $1250
I'm running the stagger fit with same sizes as stock.

What summer wheels are you running?

I have 18" 397's in the winter. I am kind of envious I did not get 19s for the winter also.. minus the extra winter pot hole protection I have from that extra inch.

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by gthal

No... they are AWD for good reason. The GTR and Veyron need it to get their immense power to the ground efficiently. The Evo and STi are largely because that it the heritage of those brands. Go to the track and drive a GTR and then drive a RWD Porsche. The GTR is amazing, has great traction and puts the power down without any drama... that's the problem... no drama, no fun, no thrill (well, it is thrilling but mainly because the car is SO powerful and so fast).

AWD does not perform poorly in those applications but there is still a compromise in feel and fun. That is a personal thing and not everyone would agree. AWD doesn't perform poorly in the 328/335 either but it isn't there to help on track or aggressive summer driving performance. It is there to help in poor weather performance. Same reason why the M3 is RWD only... it is the most involving and capable platform for the track and no one buys an M3 caring about winter performance. Owners WOULD care about the extra weight of AWD in the M3.

So, you can think that this helps prove your point but it doesn't. If the 328/335 had 500HP, it would need AWD just to get the power to the road like the Veyron and GTR do too. It doesn't so the purpose of AWD in the 328/335 is poor weather performance... not to make the car a better handling, better track, better back road car. If this were the case, why doesn't BMW offer the drop in height (lower center of gravity), better summer tires and the sport suspension with xDrive cars? Why, because those who want xDrive want it for a very good reason and those who prefer RWD do so for a different reason. Both valid reasons.

Anyway, this is getting silly. We should just agree to disagree... although I think we actually agree except that you can't see that xDrive doesn't improve traction in all circumstances and that xDrive cars are not the better handling car in dry summer weather.

Ummm yes, no and maybe .. BHP isn't the key factor (BHP upper range momentum, Torque twisting force at wheel (lower range)). So if you had 500HP and 30lb ft torque the chances of you loosing traction is pretty thin (in dry weather), although of course a 500HP engine would never produce only 30 lb of torque.

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobile...tml/?a=viewall

^ Simple and easy to read summary of how it works.

So let's take a 335D Xdrive for example, it provides 465 ft lb of torque @ 1500RPM (Jeez). That's an easy way to upset traction (a Focus ST without a limited slip differential get's un-nerved by 270lb ft @ 2500RPM (full HP transition (252HP @ 5500RPM).

465 lb of torque is about on average the same as a Aston Martin Vantage (5.9 V12) or a Jag F Type 5.0L V8 supercharged.

So what do you do? Slap a massive torque vectoring system / limited slip diff on it? Err well I wouldn't, the revoknuckle (Focus RS) setup struggles with 339 ft lb. So the 335D with the new 308 / 465 model would probably be a good way to meet a tree quickly (unless you have a really expensive clever vectoring system / limited slip diff (which costs a fair bit / are a little hit and miss))..

Ok so let's use a AWD system? "ding, ding", that's more like it. An AWD system in a nutshell is all about traction, it has no relative bearing on braking in the snow, neither does it do anything for steering. Although FWD does have a slight advantage in traction over RWD and that's because the mass / weight (down force) hangs over the front axel adding grip whilst pulling the car forward instead of pushing a light back end (as such).

In terms of fun well as you say, it's highly subjective really. An AWD system will be much harder to phase, makes drifting etc. much harder if that's your bag.. There's no reason an AWD can't have a decent centre of gravity, in fact quite a few of them do.. So why doesn't BMW offer it? Not a clue, it's not a 4WD system with a low range and it doesn't need ground clearance any of it). If I was to hazzard a guess, fiscals / perception would be near the top..

There is no technical reason why they can't add M-Sport suspension. Well it's good news for AC-Schnitzer anyway..

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by BMWinGE

I dont think it has anything to do with a RWD ghost

I think Xdrive has it place as an option and helps increase sales to those who would look at other brands (Audi) but I cannot think of a BMW (other than SAVs) that the Xdrive version was considered the better performance choice?

100% agree. Xdrive on a sedan or coupe is pretty much a marketing scheme to either get Audi buyers to switch while sucking extra money out of buyers' wallets.

RWD ghost? Sitting at the dealership I get the AWD drive talk from the sales guy when requesting pricing on a RWD 2-series. I look over at the i3 and say to 'sales guy' "BMW says the i3 is the car of the future." "Yes it is sir.", replies sales guy. I then say "Isn't the i3 a RWD drive car?"

So according to BMW 'the car of the future' is RWD.

I heard the president of BMW Canada say only 10% of 3-series sold in Canada are RWD so BWM Canada is dropping 320 and 328 RWD models and offering only XDrive (the performance oriented 340 is still sold as RWD, just like the performance oriented 2 and M series cars). BMW Canada used to be the number 1 luxury brand in Canada. Now it's number 2, behind Mercedes Benz, who still sells the FWD 250CLA and B-class. 4-wheel drive crazy Audi still sells the FWD drive version of the A4 in Canada. In what world does dropping 10% of sales make sense when you are battling against another company for top spot? Oh no, we're 4% behind. Let's drop to 14% behind and see what happens. Still behind.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by menncars

100% agree. Xdrive on a sedan or coupe is pretty much a marketing scheme to either get Audi buyers to switch while sucking extra money out of buyers' wallets.

RWD ghost? Sitting at the dealership I get the AWD drive talk from the sales guy when requesting pricing on a RWD 2-series. I look over at the i3 and say to 'sales guy' "BMW says the i3 is the car of the future." "Yes it is sir.", replies sales guy. I then say "Isn't the i3 a RWD drive car?"

So according to BMW 'the car of the future' is RWD.

I heard the president of BMW Canada say only 10% of 3-series sold in Canada are RWD so BWM Canada is dropping 320 and 328 RWD models and offering only XDrive (the performance oriented 340 is still sold as RWD, just like the performance oriented 2 and M series cars). BMW Canada used to be the number 1 luxury brand in Canada. Now it's number 2, behind Mercedes Benz, who still sells the FWD 250CLA and B-class. 4-wheel drive crazy Audi still sells the FWD drive version of the A4 in Canada. In what world does dropping 10% of sales make sense when you are battling against another company for top spot? Oh no, we're 4% behind. Let's drop to 14% behind and see what happens. Still behind.

+1.

Although I'm not a fan of the xDrive for a couple of reasons:
1. For a regular daily driven car, I much rather prefer a tried and true AWD system such as: Torsen center diff + clutch/Torsen rear diff. The xDrive is unnecessarily complicated while lacking a limited slip rear differential. I had a friend whose servo motor failed on his xDrive transfer case. It turned his AWD car into a heavier RWD car. Long term ownership costs favor the RWD BMWs.
2. Sport suspension is not available in the US for xDrive F30 BMWs.

[PBureno]

Originally Posted by f30ca

Waited 3 months to get what I ordered.

So far new grilles, tint and rear spoiler, winter tires staggered, 3m rockgard.

I also bought a 2013 Audi S4 for my wife to compare to it.

Will let you know how each compares!

Shame he didn't come back, would have loved to see how it performed vs. the S4

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by CHCCubs

Braking and turning are where proper winter tires will come into play. xDrive won't do anything to help you stop or turn better in the snow.

+1

Most stories I hear about all-wheel drive are irrational bullsh*t which makes less sense than magic. I admit I really like the post about dividing torque among 4 rather than 2 wheels in powerful cars to avoid problems whereby engine torque will cause a loss of traction for tires in contact with the road. It's well thought out and makes perfect engineering sense.

Traction is a pretty straight-forward physical/engineering concept. It's the tractive force between tire and road. Take any car. Any brand of tires. Park it on a hill with brakes on. Why doesn't it slip down the road? It's not the brakes. It's the traction between tire and road. Not convinced? Same car, same tires, apply brakes. Now place car on a hill of butter. Slides down the hill. Why? No traction. Drive systems don't deliver traction. As one poster noted, why add AWD to a powerful car? To divide engine torque among 4 wheels to avoid exceeding the 'traction' of the tires.

Ever see a manufacturer quote an engine's power? Sure. 328i: 258HP. Ever see figures for torque. Yep. 258 ft/lbs. Ever see figures for traction? 328 RWD: 10 tracto-fukrs. 328 XDrive: 15 tracto-fukrs. You don't even see that from tire makers because traction isn't only about tires, it's about the road surface, temp, and weight too. If you can't assign a number to traction, how can you say AWD has 'more' traction when you don't even know how much traction you have?

Invariably All-wheel drive proponents will pull out some comparo between an AWD vs FWD or RWD drive version of the same car and say 'There you go, proof AWD is superior'. Of the following 2 cars which is more expensive? The 2015 428 XDrive vs the 2015 428 RWD? XDrive is $5,000 more expensive than RWD. Are the two cars 100% identical in every way except for their drive system? How difficult is it to sell something that is $5000 more expensive yet performs just as well as an identical model?

If I ran BMW and I found out customers where running RWD vs xDrive versions of the same car in side by side tests and found no difference between the two, someone in engineering would get a major ass kicking. BMW have never said xDrive and RWD drive models are identical except for drive system. They have RWD models. They have xDrive models. BMW says 'XDrive gives you extra confidence' and judging by the number of AWD vehicles in scarp yards world wide, I'd completely agree.

Tweaking cars to cheat on a emissions is illegal. Tweaking cars to make expensive models do better in single or limited number of tests over cheaper models isn't a conspiracy. It's clever capitalism.

I think for my next car I'll stick with RWD and the 5K. No need to purchase extra confidence.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

+1.

Although I'm not a fan of the xDrive for a couple of reasons:
1. For a regular daily driven car, I much rather prefer a tried and true AWD system such as: Torsen center diff + clutch/Torsen rear diff. The xDrive is unnecessarily complicated while lacking a limited slip rear differential. I had a friend whose servo motor failed on his xDrive transfer case. It turned his AWD car into a heavier RWD car. Long term ownership costs favor the RWD BMWs.
2. Sport suspension is not available in the US for xDrive F30 BMWs.

That point 2 is a bigger deal than I imagined. I've been driving a 2016 XDrive 328i loaner for 2 weeks, and it a lot of ways it drives around the city very similar to my RWD 320i. But the float. At first, I was 'Give it chance'. I'd read posts of guys slamming the float and thought they were over-reacting. They were not. If I ever got an XDrive 3-series, I'd chop of 10-20mm of ride height. It is too high.

[Touring]

If I lived in Florida I would not have bought an x-drive. But I need one. Very happy with mine :-)

[casualDIYer]

Love that EB II colour. Why do dealers only stock black, white, and sometimes grey/ silver?

[hollandog]

Originally Posted by menncars

Love that EB II colour. Why do dealers only stock black, white, and sometimes grey/ silver?

Because EBII is now customer order only. Dealers can't order that color for MY 2016.

[dL.]

Originally Posted by hollandog

Because EBII is now customer order only. Dealers can't order that color for MY 2016.

They still can in Canada.

dL

[jrock135]

The xDrive is really something special. Living in Wisconsin, we [generally] have pretty decent snowfall. It usually all happens at once too. This is my first winter with my 328 and so far it has really delivered. I could press the gas just a bit to get going from a red light like it was no issue at all, and I knew if I still had my front wheel drive VW like last year, it probably would have struggled. Great system all around so far!