[Remonster]

Originally Posted by TWiTCHY

I actually went to the dealer and told them that I wanted to test standard and premium sound in the F30, so they gave me two keys and I walked out to the lot and compared them side-by-side.

I was running Spotify from my iPhone (320kbps) through USB cable and both cars recognized album art and song titles just fine.

For $900, I would pocket it and save it...after you adjust the equalizer and fade/balance settings in the standard setup, it sounds just as nice as the premium setup.

The biggest difference is the quality of the bass. The premium system's bass was more smooth and controlled. I like to see it as getting punched in the face with a boxing mitt (premium) vs. bare fists (standard). The bass on the standard was rougher and harder, but still acceptable when you consider the cost difference.

Highs and mids were relatively the same between standard and premium. The average listener won't notice the improvements, and even for an audiophile like me, I would say the $900 isn't worth the cost for such a small improvement. My $250 KRK Rokit 5 setup at home beats them, just to give you an idea of how much $900 is in the speaker market.

I don't know how much a new subwoofer is and if you'll need to change the amp, but I would imagine that it would cost less to upgrade the sub from the standard setup and you'll have a system that sounds as nice, if not nicer, than the $900 premium sound package.

KRKs (even the Rokits) probably sound better than any sound system offered in a car so that's a bit unfair, but after reading this thread I'm glad to hear the standard system in the F30 seems to be pretty good. Our F10's base audio system is ridiculously bad, it's like there's nothing below 100Hz at all unless you crank it up really loud and then, suddenly, the bass is there? Very strange, I almost think something is wrong with it.

I have HK in my 135i which is pretty good, the only thing I hate about it is the huge midbass hump which makes some songs unbearable (if the beat is around this frequency, it completely drowns out any adjacent frequencies) and it cannot be EQed out without making things a lot worse. My brother's M3 had the Individual High End system in it which was seriously impressive.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Our F10's base audio system is ridiculously bad, it's like there's nothing below 100Hz at all unless you crank it up really loud and then, suddenly, the bass is there? Very strange, I almost think something is wrong with it.

How many speakers do u have in the US-spec std F10 system? Cos it seems the US-spec system is exclusive to NA markets as the brochure said it has 10 spks & an analogue amp. The std European/ROW system have only 6 spks & I think no amp. The Europe/ROW hi-fi system has 12 spks & digital amp, so it's not like the F30 where std US=EU/ROW hi-fi. Of course the professional hi-fi is the same for everywhere in the world.

[Kristof]

Background: I'm definetely no audiophil but I do like nice sounding kits. At home I listen to my Polk Audio setup from an Onkyo amp, and am in love with my Sennheiser IE8 earphones (best $250 spent on audio so far) plugged to a digital DAC but that's about it.

In my 328i I have the euro-spec professional audio (not the HK but the one with the double subwoofer below the seats). Sorry to say but I don't like them much. It's not bad for jazz and classic and sounds clean for the morning news from the radio, but doesn't really fit anything else. I even turned down the bass by 1-2 ticks in the idrive setup because it's just pumping over everything else without sounding deep at all. This kit would at very least need a proper EQ to get somewhere..

I'm wondering if I made a mistake not ordering the HK (would have been over $1600 for my setup) but I also agree that fewer, more quality speakers usually do a better job.. maybe not in this case though.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by Kristof

In my 328i I have the euro-spec professional audio (not the HK but the one with the double subwoofer below the seats).

All setups on EU spec cars have one subwoofer under each front seat, even for basic loudspeaker system.

[Kristof]

Originally Posted by clarence

All setups on EU spec cars have one subwoofer under each front seat, even for basic loudspeaker system.

I was referring to option "676 Hi-fi loudspeaker system" which is about $800 over the base option. I listened to the latter though before buying and it was really terrible.

[ReevesBMW]

I have the HK in my F30 and to be honest I could have lived without it. The standard HIFI system is rather good.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by ReevesBMW

I have the HK in my F30 and to be honest I could have lived without it. The standard HIFI system is rather good.

Wht do u think is the main difference between the 2?

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by clarence

All setups on EU spec cars have one subwoofer under each front seat, even for basic loudspeaker system.

In my 135i I have the "mid level" audio system.
The 135i has 2-8" subs, one under each seat. They are VERY shallow mount, I mean VERY shallow maybe 2.5" mounting depth. It's amazing that they can produce the amount of bass they do given the cone doesn't move very much.

I upgraded them with Earthquake SWS 8" subs. I only changed the subs everything else is stock. Yes, they did make a nice difference. The SWS subs have a better rounded bass with better clarity. Overall volume remains the same of course, but the quality of the bass was improved and thus improved the overall sound quality, with less distortion at higher volumes.

So the F30 has one sub under each front seat?
What size are the stock subs in the standard audio system?
What size are they in the HK system?
I suspect they are shallow mount as well.
If they are Earthquake SWS subs may make for a decent improvement.
Please post if anyone does do a sub swap on either the standard or HK system.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by RPM90

So the F30 has one sub under each front seat?
What size are the stock subs in the standard audio system?
What size are they in the HK system?
I suspect they are shallow mount as well.

Yes, for all systems from the EU/ROW base to hi-fi to HK, they all have one sub under each front seat. Again they're all shallow mount.
Not sure abt the size, but the SWS8 should be a direct swap (may need adaptor tho, like the E9x).

[patrice03]

guys, my car was delivered today and had a 150 miles journey back home.
so plenty of time to play with the radio, i do have the hi-fi and had listened at the dealer to both systems. i confirm that you can live with the hi-fi, its a good system for those who like listening to music in their cars and if you need to do some savings, do need to upgrade. the main drawback is saturation at high volume which can happen when plenty off bass, and the sound which is not as clear. otherwise, sound is rather clear, rear speakers are audible. happy

[adelphi_sky]

It's funny how I was lurking in the E9x forums back in 2009 when I got my 328i LCI and argued that the basic system was pretty good if not great. Yet people swore on their mother's grave that the HK system was superior. Now it seems people have come around and have found the stock system to be on par with the HK.

I won't say whether I'm an audiophile or not. I think we can all agree that even if you claim to be an audiophile, our ears are different. Some people have different size ear canals, lobes, bones, etc, that all shape how they hear sound. It's sometimes impossible for two or three people to hear the exact same sound the same way unless a machine is doing the listening. In addition, different types of music produces or creates different types of sound waves. An acoustic jazz trio will produce a different sound than a rock band or an orchestra. The HK allows you to accommodate for those differences other than simply adjusting the bass and the treble.

Having said that, I think that whether or not to get the HK system is up to each individual and to say that one is better than the other is purely subjective. What the HK does offer over the base system is the ability to have more control over the range of sound other than bass and treble. The HK also provides preset surround environments. Lastly, it adds 3 speakers? That's it. It's not supposed to recreate a studio sound. Especially in a car. Those are high expectations for a $900 upgrade.

I recall this situation when looking at HDTVs. Some HDTVs provide you with the basic screen adjustments. But the upgraded models provide hundreds of other adjustments to allow the more seasoned videophiles a way to tweak the screen to their liking. Everyone doesn't see colors the same on a TV, or the blackness levels. Everyone doesn't have their TV in the same room on the same side of the house with the same amount of light.

For some, the added ability to tweak and try different sound environments is worth the extra $900.

[clarence]

Did ur E90 come with the base 6 spkr or the hi-fi system?

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by clarence

Did ur E90 come with the base 6 spkr or the hi-fi system?

Base 6-speaker. Let me clarify that I had a 2006 330i with the upgraded system with L7. When I compared the two, I didn't miss the L7 all that much. Though I did reach limits in the new base system that I could pass in the previous L7, it was okay. (Had to compromise with wife on the base). I do prefer greater control over tweaking the sound though. So, the upgraded system is for me. I have a Denon 2312CI at home and LOVE listening to some tracks in Jazz Club mode. A great experience.

[rmnoonan]

Remember that if you would have gotten XM radio anyways, it's not $900, its $900-$300 for the XM hookup. So only $600 for the upgrade on a 2012 model. My number on the XM standalone might be off a bit but it's close.

[tron1043]

I'll chime in, as I picked up my F30 335i with premium sound yesterday. I thought a lot about HK Premium vs Standard for a long time. Too long. Stupid long. Here are my thoughts. By the way, here's the link on the technical difference between E90 Logic 7 versus F30 Logic 7. http://bmw.harmankardon.com/en/vehicles/BMW-3-Series/ . Big difference: E90 had 420 watts, F30 625 watts.

In August 2005, I got an E90 330i with Logic 7. When I was researching the car, I was disappointed that I'd have to stick with OEM as mixing after-market with iDrive in 2005 wasn't an option. (JL's Clean Sweep wasn't even around.) My E46 had an incredible system I installed myself with Diamond Audio 6" Hex Components, JL 12" W3v2, tons of Dynamat Extreme, a Phoenix Gold Titanium amp, Brax capacitor, high-end Alpine head unit with time-delay correction. My E46 sounded awesome.

Audiophiles for the most part hate processing, like Logic 7. I'm not an audiophile, I love a particular sound I consider fun while driving. My E46 had lots of processing, and I was bummed thinking OEM wouldn't incorporate decent processing. Then I started driving my E90. I noticed the Logic 7 combined with the center channel brought vocals to center stage. I thought the only way to get center stage vocals in a car was with time-delay. Logic 7 may have time-delay built in, but whatever it does, it sounds great in a car. From day 1 with my E90 I never missed aftermarket audio equipment.

To me, I felt the only true concession was with bass, as the underseat subwoofers can't replicate a 10" or 12" subwoofer. The E90 Logic 7 system produced mid-bass, not true bass. However, mid-bass, from what I remember when I was an audio geek, is more audible than bass.

In 2009, I replaced the E90 330i with an E90 335i, again got Logic 7. Still loved it. A good friend has an E93 M3 with the Enhanced Premium Sound--the $1,900 option. I've listed to that system a lot. It obviously has way more power than the E90 system, and that's felt in overall volume, and it does have pretty good bass and excellent mid-bass. However, I thought the E90 Logic 7 sounded better, even with less power and inferior speakers because of the Logic 7 processing. My E90 had vocals on the dash, the M3 didn't.

Yesterday, I got my F30 335i with premium sound. I auditioned the standard against the premium, but during my auditions, my sales' guy was in the car each drive so I didn't crank the volume. (Having bought 4 BMWs in a row, I thought I'd get a solo drive, but first time with this dealership.) Right away, I knew the HK premium was much better than standard even at low volume. The problem with the standard was it seriously lacked clarity. Also, even with the center speaker now standard, music sounded like it was coming just from the driver's side door. Mid-bass, bass, was completely lacking. And without an equalizer, you're left with just the "bass" slider under the "tone" setting, which can throw off the entire sound even if you're just trying to get more bass.

So, onto the F30. The music I love runs the gamut from hip-hop to punk. The CD I brought for the first drive included: Avicii, Bruce Springsteen, Rancid, Vampire Weekend, Kid CuDi, Deadmau5, Me First and the Gimme Gimmes, Lil' Wayne, Childish Gambino, and more.

Specifics:

Avicii: Songs Derezzed and Blessed. Clarity is amazing. Even though it's very bright, it's not fatiguing. Also, the added power over the E90 was most noticeable with the perceived bass impact. Outside the M3 I mentioned above, my F30 is the first OEM system I've experienced that sounds and feels like it has a good aftermarket subwoofer.

Springsteen: Too many songs to name. Bottom-line: vocals are locked on the dash. Bruce is singing right behind around the iDrive screen. Awesome.

Hip-hop: Awesome. I imagine it will only get better too as the speakers break-in.

Punk and alternative: Again awesome. Difference is not as noticeable compared to the E90 Logic 7 as the other genres I mentioned above, but there's some slight added clarity.

Overall: I love it. I'm so glad I got it. If I had to sell someone on the F30's Harman Kardon I'd say if your ears aren't offended by heavy audio processing, you want vocals on the dash versus the doors, and you want perceived bass impact, the F30's Harman Kardon is a no-brainer.

This got long-winded, but I hope you get the idea.

[johnofcross]

Originally Posted by tron1043

I'll chime in, as I picked up my F30 335i with premium sound yesterday. I thought a lot about HK Premium vs Standard for a long time. Too long. Stupid long. Here are my thoughts. By the way, here's the link on the technical difference between E90 Logic 7 versus F30 Logic 7. http://bmw.harmankardon.com/en/vehicles/BMW-3-Series/ . Big difference: E90 had 420 watts, F30 625 watts.

In August 2005, I got an E90 330i with Logic 7. When I was researching the car, I was disappointed that I'd have to stick with OEM as mixing after-market with iDrive in 2005 wasn't an option. (JL's Clean Sweep wasn't even around.) My E46 had an incredible system I installed myself with Diamond Audio 6" Hex Components, JL 12" W3v2, tons of Dynamat Extreme, a Phoenix Gold Titanium amp, Brax capacitor, high-end Alpine head unit with time-delay correction. My E46 sounded awesome.

Audiophiles for the most part hate processing, like Logic 7. I'm not an audiophile, I love a particular sound I consider fun while driving. My E46 had lots of processing, and I was bummed thinking OEM wouldn't incorporate decent processing. Then I started driving my E90. I noticed the Logic 7 combined with the center channel brought vocals to center stage. I thought the only way to get center stage vocals in a car was with time-delay. Logic 7 may have time-delay built in, but whatever it does, it sounds great in a car. From day 1 with my E90 I never missed aftermarket audio equipment.

To me, I felt the only true concession was with bass, as the underseat subwoofers can't replicate a 10" or 12" subwoofer. The E90 Logic 7 system produced mid-bass, not true bass. However, mid-bass, from what I remember when I was an audio geek, is more audible than bass.

In 2009, I replaced the E90 330i with an E90 335i, again got Logic 7. Still loved it. A good friend has an E93 M3 with the Enhanced Premium Sound--the $1,900 option. I've listed to that system a lot. It obviously has way more power than the E90 system, and that's felt in overall volume, and it does have pretty good bass and excellent mid-bass. However, I thought the E90 Logic 7 sounded better, even with less power and inferior speakers because of the Logic 7 processing. My E90 had vocals on the dash, the M3 didn't.

Yesterday, I got my F30 335i with premium sound. I auditioned the standard against the premium, but during my auditions, my sales' guy was in the car each drive so I didn't crank the volume. (Having bought 4 BMWs in a row, I thought I'd get a solo drive, but first time with this dealership.) Right away, I knew the HK premium was much better than standard even at low volume. The problem with the standard was it seriously lacked clarity. Also, even with the center speaker now standard, music sounded like it was coming just from the driver's side door. Mid-bass, bass, was completely lacking. And without an equalizer, you're left with just the "bass" slider under the "tone" setting, which can throw off the entire sound even if you're just trying to get more bass.

So, onto the F30. The music I love runs the gamut from hip-hop to punk. The CD I brought for the first drive included: Avicii, Bruce Springsteen, Rancid, Vampire Weekend, Kid CuDi, Deadmau5, Me First and the Gimme Gimmes, Lil' Wayne, Childish Gambino, and more.

Specifics:

Avicii: Songs Derezzed and Blessed. Clarity is amazing. Even though it's very bright, it's not fatiguing. Also, the added power over the E90 was most noticeable with the perceived bass impact. Outside the M3 I mentioned above, my F30 is the first OEM system I've experienced that sounds and feels like it has a good aftermarket subwoofer.

Springsteen: Too many songs to name. Bottom-line: vocals are locked on the dash. Bruce is singing right behind around the iDrive screen. Awesome.

Hip-hop: Awesome. I imagine it will only get better too as the speakers break-in.

Punk and alternative: Again awesome. Difference is not as noticeable compared to the E90 Logic 7 as the other genres I mentioned above, but there's some slight added clarity.

Overall: I love it. I'm so glad I got it. If I had to sell someone on the F30's Harman Kardon I'd say if your ears aren't offended by heavy audio processing, you want vocals on the dash versus the doors, and you want perceived bass impact, the F30's Harman Kardon is a no-brainer.

This got long-winded, but I hope you get the idea.

Nice review. I appreciate the input! Definitely don't regret choosing the HK now!

PS: Hope Bimmerpost implement some sort of 'thank you' system on their forums (Android forums have them) as you definitely deserve one.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by tron1043

I'll chime in, as I picked up my F30 335i with premium sound yesterday. I thought a lot about HK Premium vs Standard for a long time.

If I'm correct u like to listen to ur music with L7 surround processing on. What I'm interested is how much difference is there between HK & hi-fi if surround processing is off. I don't like to use processing on the stuff I listen to.

[tron1043]

Originally Posted by clarence

If I'm correct u like to listen to ur music with L7 surround processing on. What I'm interested is how much difference is there between HK & hi-fi if surround processing is off. I don't like to use processing on the stuff I listen to.

I did listen without processing. The premium sounds brighter, with some warmth.

[Scudder]

I am far from an audiophile, but I want to jump in here because the stock audio system is my only real disappointment with the 328i I just purchased. I wish I had spent more time testing it and comparing to HK because I find it to be very disappointing. To me, it always sounds tinny - horribly so at low to mid volumes.

A couple people have mentioned in this thread that the standard hi-fi system sounds good if you adjust the equalizer settings. Well, there is almost nothing there on the standard hi-fi system: just bass, treble, and faders (L/R, Font/Back). Yes, it sounds a little better when you adjust these, but I do not think this is a real "equalizer" - these options are extremely limited and do not provide a huge change to the sound.

I do find, ironically, that the higher the volume the better the standard stereo sounds. It remains clear and the bass is actually not bad. But no matter how I adjust it, all the inputs (radio, HD radio, USB MP3's , CD's) all sound tinny to some extent. I listen to a big mix of pop/rock from the last 30 years and nearly everything has a cheap, tinny quality sound to me which I really dislike.

If there was a way to upgrade the sound for me at this point, I would pay through the nose for it.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by Scudder

I am far from an audiophile, but I want to jump in here because the stock audio system is my only real disappointment with the 328i I just purchased. I wish I had spent more time testing it and comparing to HK because I find it to be very disappointing. To me, it always sounds tinny - horribly so at low to mid volumes.

A couple people have mentioned in this thread that the standard hi-fi system sounds good if you adjust the equalizer settings. Well, there is almost nothing there on the standard hi-fi system: just bass, treble, and faders (L/R, Font/Back). Yes, it sounds a little better when you adjust these, but I do not think this is a real "equalizer" - these options are extremely limited and do not provide a huge change to the sound.

I do find, ironically, that the higher the volume the better the standard stereo sounds. It remains clear and the bass is actually not bad. But no matter how I adjust it, all the inputs (radio, HD radio, USB MP3's , CD's) all sound tinny to some extent. I listen to a big mix of pop/rock from the last 30 years and nearly everything has a cheap, tinny quality sound to me which I really dislike.

If there was a way to upgrade the sound for me at this point, I would pay through the nose for it.

How long have u been using the system? Maybe the standard hi-fi system needs extensive running-in in order for it to perform well enough.
As for upgrades, I think u should wait it bit so that stuff like pnp wire harness becomes available. Then u can upgrade everything from the amp onwards as the hi-fi is an analogue system.

[JohnnyO]

If I was hoping for a clear answer - reading through this thread didn't do it!

I've owned five cars over the last 25 years. It is time for another. The last car I bought, a 2008 BMW 335xi was the first that came with an "upgraded" sound system, the Logic7 system.

I really enjoy it. While 70% of the time I cruise around listening to podcasts, the other 30% of the time is party music. Windows down, sunroof open, and Van Halen or AC/DC leaping out of the car. It still sounds crisp and clean.

I fear I'm unable to move backwards.

Now this thread has me confused. The first part leads me to believe that the base system is much better than it was in 2008, yet some of the later messages lead me to believe the base system isn't any better than that from a rental car.

I guess I'll have to see if my local dealership has one of each, and will let me indulge myself with a ride down the freeway with the windows open and the music up loud!

John

[Scudder]

I am not quite sure what breaking in a sound system means, but I have had mine for almost a month and about 900 miles. The standard system still sounds cheap and tinny to me and it is very disappointing. The one good thing I will say is that the clarity is good and there is no distortion. But I really dislike that overall tinny sound.

If I had it to do over again, I would bring a USB drive of some of my favorite songs and spend some time trying it with both systems.