11-12-2012, 07:41 PM | #45 | |
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11-12-2012, 07:47 PM | #46 | |
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It meant fastish driving and having a "Quick Squirt " when all was clear, this did get tiresome, I had much more fun in the F10 550i MSport as the torque was just immense.
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11-13-2012, 08:27 AM | #47 |
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Blimey, didnt realise the 550i has soooo much torque. Best of both worlds - torque AND power....
550i 600Nm 442 lb-ft (but 407bhp) 330d 560Nm 413 lb-ft no-where near and economical though as 27mpg vs 57mpg |
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11-13-2012, 09:44 AM | #48 | |
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So, torque is what pushes yo back in the seat and power is how long that push lasts and at what multiple. Dude, you have a great, probably the best all-round car , buts saying its going to beat an M3 even in top gear ain't going to happen. Why, well if its an auto it would kick down or the guy driving it would change gear
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11-13-2012, 09:58 AM | #49 |
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Not in an auto, obviously But yeah, 50mph in top gear ... the 30D would pull ahead. No doubt.
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11-13-2012, 10:02 AM | #50 | |
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i think if i tried this in the M135i, it wold drop 6 cogs, (altough in manual mode, it doesnt kick down thank god!)
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11-13-2012, 10:44 AM | #51 |
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Yep I got 27MPG out of mine.
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11-13-2012, 11:13 AM | #52 |
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TBH the 550i M Sport was almost as quick as the E90 M3 in a straight Line.
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11-13-2012, 02:37 PM | #54 | |
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Whilst true that torque is the rotating dynamic that dictates ultimate force levels, it is horsepower that we are interested in. Torque is a rotational force and horsepower is the same force expressed in a linear form. Horsepower is easier to grasp if we imagine that there is a drum attached to the flywheel, and we use that drum to wind up a rope (linear movement). The torque determines the force of pull on the rope, horsepower determines the rate at which the end of the rope moves, the faster the drum, the faster the rope. Now you can debate till the end of time which is more important, but remember that gearing determines the torque applied to the wheel, and that is the single most important factor, more important than the torque developed at the flywheel. We can trade low flywheel torque for high wheel torque and vice versa. Now if we go back to an engine driving a drum with our rope. Imagine instead of laying the rope on the ground we hang it over a cliff and add a weight to the end of it. A 330D could pull a large diameter drum but at low revs (high torque/lowish power) versus a F1 engine which because it doesn't have much torque, would have to have a small diameter drum attached to it to pull the resistance in our rope, but because it can rotate the drum at very high speed, will win the race. A torque/gearing chart comparing 335i vs 330D would be very interesting |
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11-13-2012, 02:47 PM | #56 |
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Noooo no no no - there is no substitute for heavily boosted displacement
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11-13-2012, 04:46 PM | #59 | |
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This topic has moved on a bit ....
Here's a bit of comment I put together several years ago on this subject of torque and power. Kept it simple in the sense it uses two petrol NA engines, but in a way the variables get balanced out. Ignoring the dynamics of the chassis, in this instance we can just choose the engine we prefer, the more relaxed drive, or an engine we'd enjoy revving. Much the same as the diesel vs petrol choice we have. Quote:
On a side note, big torque figures are fine in the diesels, but I wonder how far we can go before even the 'torque pulse' controls like the DPF, (now virtually the same technology included in the torque converter) will be either so heavy duty, or asking for even more advanced technology to give smoothness and longevity? We already have the torque values pushing the MT into the background, as the manual gearbox internals need to be so beefed up to carry the torque figures. HighlandPete |
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11-13-2012, 05:28 PM | #60 | ||
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With regards to the figures I posted earlier in this thread that I copied from an old E90 brochure, I think there is a misprint and these should be 50 -75mph. The reason being is that is on the next page in the brochure it says "50 to 75mph is equal to 80 to 120km/h" and refers back to the figures below. So I think they cocked up in the brochure. Also BMW only refer to 50 - 75mph on their website as well as other PDF's I have. Quote:
http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesand...calSpec&isPGA= 50-75 in 4th: 4.9 So slower than an E90 330d like-for-like manual in 4th gear. Backs up what MaestroAl has been saying. Enough said. Edit: in fact the data for the old 330d coupe is on the website: http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesand...calSpec&isPGA= 330d coupe 50-75 in 4th: 4.7 (coupe is usually a fraction quicker - but compares to the above M3 coupe ). Last edited by dopper99; 11-13-2012 at 05:58 PM.. |
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11-14-2012, 03:18 AM | #61 |
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I think for the "Layman" my next statement should simplify the comparison.
High torque = "unstressed" driving Low torque = "Stressed".
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11-14-2012, 03:20 AM | #62 | |
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It reminds me of the car that does 0 - 60 in a time faster than its competitor, so the feeling it is the faster car. But it may be as simple as one car gets to 60mph with one gear change, the other needs two changes. Change the goal posts to 0 - 70, and the competitor could be the faster. To be honest the feel of an engine's delivery, the flexibility, the way it's geared can make it a car of choice, as much as outright performance and headline figures. Hence why many will really enjoy the 330d diesel. I was in a position where I had the choice of a 530d or 535i, neither purchase or running costs is the issue. I just preferred the 535i as a car, as a package, and how it will be used, rather than the 530d. How I drive, the 535i does not lack one little bit over the diesel. If my driving conditions were different I'd most likely be in the diesel. A lot of my trips are about 12 miles, most of it cruising. I have two accelerations to 60mph in 11 miles. If I was contending with constant variables, that would swing the type of engine I would prefer. Each to his own, isn't it. HighlandPete |
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11-14-2012, 07:35 AM | #63 |
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That sums things up well.
There is nothing wrong with pretty much any engine from BMW. Both their petrol and diesels are awesome - in their different ways and there is no "right" or "wrong" engine. Its all down to personal preference really and other factors such as people's mileage etc.... It's nice to be on a forum and not end up in the usual slanging match of petrol vs diesel, unlike other forums. |
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11-14-2012, 08:29 AM | #64 |
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Indeed. Try having the same conversation in the main forum though
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11-16-2012, 02:30 AM | #65 | |
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Plus, as I said early do we really think a 8k rev loving petrol driver is going to stay in 4th gear....nope (And having been on a track in my 330d vs a M3, i can personally vouch to the above!) Finally, as you said - each to there own
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11-16-2012, 03:13 AM | #66 |
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Don't forget that nobody is saying that a 30D is as fast as an M3 (or even a 35i) on full reheat, going through the gears. Just that in "normal" driving, when you're not wringing its neck, it's quicker in real terms because of the engine characteristics and where the torque is.
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