[JMK007]

Originally Posted by DVCperformance

I was thinking about this yesterday driving home... since you can just push the DSC button in Sport mode (which puts the car in DTC mode, and results in the same sport-oriented stability control settings as Sport+ mode anyway), I guess there's really nothing lacking with not being able to customize the settings in Sport+

If DSC is off in sport mode, there should be no sport oriented stability control at all. It should be turned off completely, meaning no electronic nanny. Sport + activates dynamic stability control (or sport stability control) allowing the car to oversteer a little before the electronic nanny kicks in. With DSC off while in Sport, there should be no stability control interference whatsoever.

[DVC]

I thought a brief press/release of the button put it in "DTC" mode, and a long press turned it off completely... (?)

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by DVCperformance

I thought a brief press/release of the button put it in "DTC" mode, and a long press turned it off completely... (?)

Correct

[ronin951]

My head is spinning.

I have 6MT without DHP. Practically speaking, is this possible..

- Have some slip angle, but won't hit a wall if I go a little over the lateral tire limit. Mainly in long high speed neutralish throttle corners.
- Won't have nannies kill my throttle steer on corner exit.
- Progressive (non-sport) throttle response

Yes, I want my cake and to eat it too! That's why I spent $40k+ on a car

[utenigma]

Yes, hold the DTC button down till it displays DSC off

You will have heavy steering, normal throttle and the E-diff will be active with no nannies

The rest is up to you (I.e. not stuffing it into a wall) but I assure you, a drift is possible

I've been doing all my auto crosses in this mode and all it takes to kick the rear out is a squeeze of throttle mid-corner

Not a jab, a squeeze. I can also assure you a heavy dose of throttle mid corner will induce a spin-and no computer steps in to stop it

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Yes, hold the DTC button down till it displays DSC off

You will have heavy steering, normal throttle and the E-diff will be active with no nannies

The rest is up to you (I.e. not stuffing it into a wall) but I assure you, a drift is possible

I've been doing all my auto crosses in this mode and all it takes to kick the rear out is a squeeze of throttle mid-corner

Not a jab, a squeeze. I can also assure you a heavy dose of throttle mid corner will induce a spin-and no computer steps in to stop it

[DVC]

Originally Posted by utenigma

I messed with it this weekend - the car doesn't care which mode you're in when you set it to DSC off - it will always do the same thing - being

Sport+ - traction control reduced (called mode DTC in the manual), ride set to firm, steering set to firm, throttle set to sensitive, transmission to sport
Sport - user selectable for ride/steering and throttle/transmission, traction control normal (Called mode DSC in the manual)
DSC OFF - traction control disabled, electronic limited slip differential program enabled (Automatic differential brake), throttle control normal, transmission to normal, steering firm, ride firm

I think utenigma really found the best combinations for spirited street driving and track/autoX driving:

For the street...
Set mode to "Sport", and configure as follows:

• Set suspension to Firm
• Set steering to Firm
• Set transmission to Sport
• Set throttle response to Normal
• For a little extra fun, a brief press/release of the DSC button engages DTC mode... so basically, this is exactly what you get in Sport+ mode, minus the ultra-sensitive throttle.

For track/autoX...
Press/hold DSC button to completely disable DSC and DTC, which configures as follows:

• eLSD activated
• Suspension set to Firm
• Steering set to Firm
• Transmission set to Normal (not an issue if you're using the paddles to shift anyway)
• Sets throttle response to Normal

The questions I still have are the following:

1. Are there any other differences between Sport and Sport+ mode that I missed above? I've heard that Sport+ disables the kick-down switch - is this disabled in Sport as well when the transmission is set to "Sport", or is this only part of the Sport+ setting?
2. And is the kick-down functional in manual shift mode in any of the modes/settings?

[utenigma]

On the track I slide the transmission into sport with DSC off
This prevents the manual mode from switching back to automatic after 10 seconds of no manual gear changes

Kick-down on the automatic is disabled in Sport+ and DSC Off

[DVC]

Originally Posted by utenigma

On the track I slide the transmission into sport with DSC off
This prevents the manual mode from switching back to automatic after 10 seconds of no manual gear changes

Kick-down on the automatic is disabled in Sport+ and DSC Off

That's cool - I didn't even realize that you could shift manually without sliding the selector into sport... (this will be my first BMW with paddle shifters)

So, the kick-down isn't disabled in "Sport" mode even with the transmission selector in sport/manual?

[DVC]

UT - a few things I'm still not clear on regarding the transmission...

I understand that in Sport/Sport+ mode, apparently you get quicker auto shifts when in "D" mode. But does this also affect "DS" mode? Or are the auto shifts always at their quickest in "DS" regardless of the Driving Dynamics setting?

Also, I assume that the quicker shifts only pertain to when the car shifts for you, with manual shifts (via the paddles) always at the same speed in any mode... correct? (If this is the case, then Sport mode - reset to "comfort" drive line settings - along with DTC activated, and manual shift mode is the best way to get all the sport-oriented settings without the gonzo throttle response.

By the way, I am also curious what settings affect the overrun "burble" sound... is this all throttle setting related, or is it partly to do with the shift dynamics as well? (Or DTC??)

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by DVC

I understand that in Sport/Sport+ mode, apparently you get quicker auto shifts when in "D" mode. But does this also affect "DS" mode? Or are the auto shifts always at their quickest in "DS" regardless of the Driving Dynamics setting?

Shifts are always quickest with the transmission stalk slid to the left

Originally Posted by DVC

Also, I assume that the quicker shifts only pertain to when the car shifts for you, with manual shifts (via the paddles) always at the same speed in any mode... correct?

That doesn't appear to be the case, the manual shifts seem firmer when I slide the transmission stalk to the left. Additionally, in all modes if you don't slide the transmission to the left and you pull on the paddles, after 10 seconds of you not manually selecting a gear the car will go back into D.

Originally Posted by DVC

(If this is the case, then Sport mode - reset to "comfort" drive line settings - along with DTC activated, and manual shift mode is the best way to get all the sport-oriented settings without the gonzo throttle response.

Yes - with the transmission slid left. You get normal throttle response, fast shifts, no reverting to drive ever (stays in M mode) - additionally in DTC OFF and in Sport+ in M with the transmission slid left, the kick-down is disabled (the trans will not shift down - even in 8th at 40mph, you can floor it and it'll just try it's best in 8th). Additionally with that setup, it will not up-shift when it hits the rev-limiter - it'll just hang out on the limiter.

Originally Posted by DVC

By the way, I am also curious what settings affect the overrun "burble" sound... is this all throttle setting related, or is it partly to do with the shift dynamics as well? (Or DTC??)

This one has to do with the drive-line settings. While it will burble in DSC OFF manual mode - it's more of a natural burble due to a real overrun condition. In sport driveline mode, the ECU dumps a little extra fuel on lift off to cause that. That's why the MPPK burbles more in all modes - they upped the amount of extra fuel on lift off.

So on the track - DSC OFF, slide the stick left, pull a paddle to get to M and you're ready

One more thing - the rev-limiter is really soft - hitting it in 3rd @~80mph, you hardly notice it. Hitting it in 1rst is like running into a wall - the change (drop) in acceleration is so immediate, 2nd is about the same - you know when you did it, but 3rd you can spend an extra second on the limiter when you should have shifted to 4th without realizing it. It's not a fuel cut-off, just the ECU limiting the throttle, so no popping/banging/rev-rev-rev'ing - just a steady red-line

[DVC]

Cool - thanks for the intel. I did a bunch of testing on my commute last night and this morning; it's hard to tell for sure, but it seems like everything I experienced is in sync with the above.

Regarding the shift speeds always being the same (regardless of mode) when using the paddles... I meant when the stick is in "DS" mode, regardless of drive train mode. I think you're right that the paddle shifts are always less aggressive when the stick is in "D" mode.

As for the exhaust burble, it's hard to tell for sure, but it does appear to be a little more prominent in Sport+ mode (or in Sport mode with Sport drive train settings).

So many variables at play here... I think I may throw everything we've learned onto a spreadsheet and post it to this thread for general reference.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by DVC

Cool - thanks for the intel. I did a bunch of testing on my commute last night and this morning; it's hard to tell for sure, but it seems like everything I experienced is in sync with the above.

Regarding the shift speeds always being the same (regardless of mode) when using the paddles... I meant when the stick is in "DS" mode, regardless of drive train mode. I think you're right that the paddle shifts are always less aggressive when the stick is in "D" mode.

As for the exhaust burble, it's hard to tell for sure, but it does appear to be a little more prominent in Sport+ mode (or in Sport mode with Sport drive train settings).

So many variables at play here... I think I may throw everything we've learned onto a spreadsheet and post it to this thread for general reference.

I've gone through the same learning process as you and utenigma. Essentially what I do at this point is:

If I want the car to be as fast as it can be, hold down the traction control button till all the traction aids go off, pop the shifter to the left and click the paddles for manual mode.

If I want the throttle response but don't care about the car being as fast as it can be, I select sport+ and drive in either full manual mode or automatic/automatic sport (this just depends on the mood I am in haha). I usually select Sport+ on the highway or at mid-range speeds where I'm not worried about losing traction and having all the aids step in to cut power.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by DVC

So many variables at play here... I think I may throw everything we've learned onto a spreadsheet and post it to this thread for general reference.

OK, here's a compilation of what I've gathered in terms of how the modes/settings affect the various parameters of the car. The only questionable areas I still have are related to Launch Control, as I haven't tested that out yet.

One interesting thing I learned from playing around with the settings is that when in "Sport" or "Eco-Pro" Modes, pressing/releasing the DTC button automatically puts the car in "Comfort" Mode... unlike when you press/hold the DTC button (to turn off DSC entirely) where it sets driveline to "Comfort", but leaves chassis settings in "Sport". So there really is some benefit to having the "Sport+" mode after all, as you can retain Sport driveline and chassis settings, and still enjoy the reduced stability control settings that DTC provides.




** Edit - Table updated in post 68 for a little more clarity, and to show slight differences between transmission characteristics in some modes.

[utenigma]

Sweet - you must have about as much to do at work as I do

Question - Sailing - what is that? Does the car shut off and let you roll when you're off throttle at speed or something? I ask b/c mine doesn't have that or launch control. I have been driving it for a year though, so I have that going for me

[DVC]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Sweet - you must have about as much to do at work as I do

LOL - plenty that I SHOULD be doing, but this was more interesting.

Originally Posted by utenigma

Question - Sailing - what is that? Does the car shut off and let you roll when you're off throttle at speed or something? I ask b/c mine doesn't have that or launch control. I have been driving it for a year though, so I have that going for me

Yes, that's exactly what sailing is... (new for 2014 cars with 8AT) It works pretty well; there's just a slight engine braking slow-down when you touch the gas again as it re-engages a gear. Not sure yet how much of a difference it would make for gas mileage on a long highway trip, but it seems like it would help. (Interestingly, I noticed that it doesn't function when cruise control is active.)

[rallybull]

Originally Posted by DVC

OK, here's a compilation of what I've gathered in terms of how the modes/settings affect the various parameters of the car. The only questionable areas I still have are related to Launch Control, as I haven't tested that out yet.

One interesting thing I learned from playing around with the settings is that when in "Sport" or "Eco-Pro" Modes, pressing/releasing the DTC button automatically puts the car in "Comfort" Mode... unlike when you press/hold the DTC button (to turn off DSC entirely) where it sets driveline to "Comfort", but leaves chassis settings in "Sport". So there really is some benefit to having the "Sport+" mode after all, as you can retain Sport driveline and chassis settings, and still enjoy the reduced stability control settings that DTC provides.

How do you configure the drive line in sports mode? I understand you can configure the chassis if you have adaptive suspension but drive line?? I have the no-lines 335i so I don't have sports+ - does that matter?

Also, in that table does "throttle" means throttle response?

So DSC OFF plus shift lever set to "DS" mode should give me almost everything -- no traction nannies, stiff steering, higher shift points except the "throttle" (whatever that means - I hope it is not throttle response) ?

Btw, do Sport or sport+ mode keep the turbo primed for a longer period ?

[DVC]

Originally Posted by rallybull

How do you configure the drive line in sports mode?

Also, in that table does "throttle" means throttle response?

Btw, do Sport or sport+ mode keep the turbo primed for a longer period ?

As far as I know, driveline can be configured to either Sport or Comfort on any of the model lines (via the Vehicle Settings menu). Sport driveline encompasses throttle mapping (how much gas for a given amount of pedal travel) as well as some other nuances that affect things like the overrun burble, etc. (Not sure if this includes anything related to the turbo.)

[ronin951]

Great research! I'm really disappointed there's no way to have heavy steering, normal throttle BUT DTC on.

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by DVC

As far as I know, driveline can be configured to either Sport or Comfort on any of the model lines (via the Vehicle Settings menu). Sport driveline encompasses throttle response (how much gas for a given amount of pedal travel) as well as some other nuances that affect things like the overrun burble, etc. (Not sure if this includes anything related to the turbo.)

I started the thread below. It's not nearly as comprehensive as yours, but there are some differences in spooling based on the mode. Testing is not 100% controlled and I'll updated once my sprained wrist heals up.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904211

[rallybull]

Originally Posted by DVC

As far as I know, driveline can be configured to either Sport or Comfort on any of the model lines (via the Vehicle Settings menu). Sport driveline encompasses throttle response (how much gas for a given amount of pedal travel) as well as some other nuances that affect things like the overrun burble, etc. (Not sure if this includes anything related to the turbo.)

I'm surprised that I never found that setting in the menu. My car is in service right now. When it is back, I'll try to look for that menu item, but I'm like 80% sure that I could not have missed it.

By the way, throttle response is not "amount of gas for given amount of pedal travel". That is more of a throttle mapping thing. Throttle response is generally considered to be the amount of time the engine takes to "react" when you hit the gas.

My first car (years back): I would slam the gas pedal and the car would ask me "Are you sure you want to to go faster?"... I had to reply "Yes please", the car would then say "let me put that command of yours in my today's todo list".... and some time later the car would suddenly downshift and start accelerating. That is an example of poor throttle response.

I find poor throttle response extremely irritating. So difficult to plan those difficult overtaking maneuvers.

Most people have felt that the throttle response is better in sports mode/DS mode compared to comfort mode. Wonder if throttle response suffers in DSC Off mode. Need to try it out.

EDIT: I found that the PPK improved the throttle response a bit.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by rallybull

By the way, throttle response is not "amount of gas for given amount of pedal travel". That is more of a throttle mapping thing. Throttle response is generally considered to be the amount of time the engine takes to "react" when you hit the gas.

Yes, good point - I believe the variances are really just in the realm of throttle mapping. (Corrected my terminology above)

** Edit - Both throttle mapping and throttle response are more sensitive in Sport driveline settings