[seenthelight!]

so guys, the zf8 box is great, but a question for those who drive in manual ....
at what revs do you change up, both when taking it easy and giving it the beans ?
just wondering what the optimum revs are for a gear change, and how close this is to the auto shiftpoints. basically, as the diesel has a narrower powerband than the petrol, generally, what revs are the start of the beginning of the powerband ?
any answers greatfully received

[fantanas]

Originally Posted by seenthelight!

so guys, the zf8 box is great, but a question for those who drive in manual ....
at what revs do you change up, both when taking it easy and giving it the beans ?
just wondering what the optimum revs are for a gear change, and how close this is to the auto shiftpoints. basically, as the diesel has a narrower powerband than the petrol, generally, what revs are the start of the beginning of the powerband ?
any answers greatfully received

You can find the power and torque graphs online and you can answer that question. I don't remember from the top of my head

[seenthelight!]

Originally Posted by fantanas

You can find the power and torque graphs online and you can answer that question. I don't remember from the top of my head

I was actually after some real world figures from real world drivers mate. From experience, actual figures vary wildly from manufacturer figures, and dyno figures vary from real road figures and experience.
But thanks for the reply 😉

[Wills2]

Do a launch and you'll see the optimum shift points as performed by the gearbox whilst LC is active, IIRC it changes up around 4.5k, but the powerband is so narrow and with 8 gears just let the gearbox do its stuff.

[Techno 9000]

The OEM torque 'curve' has peak torque from circa 1750 - 2500rpm then declining from there on. The rate of declination increases beyond 4000rpm.

It really doesn't feel great holding it 'in gear' to high revs, as the torque has fallen much lower than peak.

My answer was a custom remap, torque holding standard up to 2250rpm then ramping up to 10% more through 2800 - 3600 rpm then falling away as slow as possible. It is now more like the turbo petrol engines I am used to and can be driven as such. I now change gear circa 4000 - 4500rpm when pressing on, making use of the peak torque plateau. However I find the ZF shift strategy is far more useful with the new torque curve.

[DarCol]

When the engine is cold, I short shift at 2k till the oil is up to atleast 90c.

Spirited driving, it’s prob slower shifting after 4K.

But, sometimes I’ll run it to the redline, just for the hell of it..

In all honesty if I want to get the best from it in terms of performance, sport+ and gear-lever to the left, letting the car change when it wants to covers the ground best.

[Hooded]

The 35d usually holds the power to at least 4700rpm before dropping off unless it’s broken.

[kzg1969]

i used to change when i started to feel the power flatten off and change gear to ride the curve again. Pretty much short shifting about 4k

[Manivxr]

Standard shift for me is 2200 for normal drive. 4200 for spirited diving.

[Bigyin1314]

When I drove in manual, normal driving saw changes around 2-2.5k. Spirited was around 4.5k. However now I barely use the paddles. On The odd occasion I'll use it to kick down before hand but mostly I let the gearbox do its thing, it's better than I'll ever be tbh

[Hooded]

On a 335d the auto box will shift between 4.5 and 4.8k in sport (DS) mode with your foot to the floor, this is where BMW think the optimised shift points are for maximum acceleration. Most dyno graphs also show these cars make peak power around 4500/4600rpm and don’t really drop off until at least 4800rpm+. If you change up around 4000rpm manually you aren’t quite getting the most bhp you can out of the engine.
The 330d on the other hand has usually done its money by around 4200/4300rpm.

[Watsey]

My DMS tunes 30d has a peak torque plateau between 1750-3500rpm and a peak power plateau between 3500-4500rpm.

In Sport+ and S mode the 'box will allow the engine to 4900 with WOT but there's no point in using it - by that point it's just revs and you can feel the torque and power dropping off a cliff.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Watsey

My DMS tunes 30d has a peak torque plateau between 1750-3500rpm and a peak power plateau between 3500-4500rpm.

In Sport+ and S mode the 'box will allow the engine to 4900 with WOT but there's no point in using it - by that point it's just revs and you can feel the torque and power dropping off a cliff.

Sport and sport+ Automatically change up around 4300/4400 on the 30d with the stock bmw gearbox map and I don’t personally see any point in changing up any higher than that manually with this engine as the power will start falling off a cliff over 4500rpm onwards regardless of who remapped it
The 35d on the other hand, should be changing up a little higher as it’s peak power is slightly higher up, and it maintains this a littler higher up the Rev range too.

[APJ]

Xhp has put the gear change at 5150 in every gear, well except for 8th where it has it at 10,000, but that's probably a whole different story. Its easy to hit the 5150 in the first two gears but worth altering for higher gears. Luckily Xhp has a setting where you can easily adjust what max revs are in every gear. Personally i have adjusted 1 and 2 to 5100 and every other gear to 4900. I will see how this goes and adjust accordingly, though i don't see this being for a while, as temperatures will likely drop over the next two months and so the occasions where i can put my right foot down

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by APJ

Xhp has put the gear change at 5150 in every gear, well except for 8th where it has it at 10,000, but that's probably a whole different story. Its easy to hit the 5150 in the first two gears but worth altering for higher gears. Luckily Xhp has a setting where you can easily adjust what max revs are in every gear. Personally i have adjusted 1 and 2 to 5100 and every other gear to 4900. I will see how this goes and adjust accordingly, though i don't see this being for a while, as temperatures will likely drop over the next two months and so the occasions where i can put my right foot down

I don’t see the logic in holding the gears to 5150 on the Xhp flash since the power has fallen off before then, even though the engine will easily rev that high. Personally I don’t see any point in going above around 4800rpm on the x35d engine if you want to get maximum acceleration.

[APJ]

Originally Posted by Hooded

I don’t see the logic in holding the gears to 5150 on the Xhp flash since the power has fallen off before then, even though the engine will easily rev that high. Personally I don’t see any point in going above around 4800rpm on the x35d engine if you want to get maximum acceleration.

Xhp have allegedly done extensive testing with their software, so you would have thought they would know best, in terms of what goes best with their software, but i'm with you 5150 is just too high, we will see how the lowered alterations go.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Hooded

I don’t see the logic in holding the gears to 5150 on the Xhp flash since the power has fallen off before then, even though the engine will easily rev that high. Personally I don’t see any point in going above around 4800rpm on the x35d engine if you want to get maximum acceleration.

The combination of power & torque in the current gear, combined with the power & torque in the next gear at the new revs (i.e. immediately after the gear change), will presumably have been factored-in.

At face value, i.e. for any given gear, I agree that 5150rpm seems too too high as the shift point, but I think it's unlikely that XHP selected it as an arbitrary setting.

Either way I don't expect many XHP users with diesel engines, and who know about altering the shift points, to use the standard setting for too long.

[Manivxr]

Originally Posted by APJ

Xhp have allegedly done extensive testing with their software, so you would have thought they would know best, in terms of what goes best with their software, but i'm with you 5150 is just too high, we will see how the lowered alterations go.

With a 5150 shift point XHP need to do more tests. Can't be right. BMW does know best in such situations. They spends a lot more on tests than any third party developer.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Manivxr

With a 5150 shift point XHP need to do more tests. Can't be right. BMW does know best in such situations. They spends a lot more on tests than any third party developer.

Completely agree.

Originally Posted by Watsey

My DMS tunes 30d has a peak power plateau between 3500-4500rpm

To elaborate on this let’s use the example of Watseys car^
In sport mode (DS) and foot to the floor the 30d will usually shift up at around 4300/4400rpm and depending on the particular gear will then drop to somewhere between 3500-3800rpm to begin pulling in the next gear. This is what BMW think is best for this engine to give maximum acceleration, and it also keeps the car in the middle of that peak power plateau of 3500-4500rpm on watseys car.
I know this because I have exactly the same engine remapped to 325bhp and this is how to get the best acceleration on my own car which I’ve timed on various rolling starts between the range of 30-80mph.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Completely agree.

To elaborate on this let’s use the example of Watseys car^
In sport mode (DS) and foot to the floor the 30d will usually shift up at around 4300/4400rpm and depending on the particular gear will then drop to somewhere between 3500-3800rpm to begin pulling in the next gear. This is what BMW think is best for this engine to give maximum acceleration, and it also keeps the car in the middle of that peak power plateau of 3500-4500rpm on watseys car.
I know this because I have exactly the same engine remapped to 325bhp and this is how to get the best acceleration on my own car which I’ve timed on various rolling starts between the range of 30-80mph.

We're on the same page, but the AT for the 30d doesn't shift up as low as 4300-4400 with WOT.

In my experience it's at least 4600 and can be higher.

4600 works very well with my map